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Author Topic: OA on the app store?  (Read 19787 times)
fromhell
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« on: July 20, 2011, 10:40:08 PM »

I'm getting a report that some guy named Jose is selling OpenArena on the app store for $2.99.

As I do not own any iDevices, I can not investigate whether the source is available or not, GPL compliance, non-free materials packaged with it, attribution, APPLE'S TERMS OF SERVICE, etc... and I do understand it's possible to commercially distribute GPL software for a price.
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 12:18:32 AM »

Selling GPL'ed software on Apple's App Store violates the GPL.

The GPL states that as a (re)distributor, you may not impose additional restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted in the GPL, but the App Store Terms of Service specify "Usage Rules" which do impose additional restrictions to the ones specified in the GPL.

More about this at the FSF.
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 01:07:49 AM »

I can remember that the VLC media player, which is licensed under the GPL, had problems with staying on app store. I think one of its developers asked for its removal, or something similar.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 03:42:40 AM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 02:31:15 AM »

The developer in question was RĂ©mi Denis-Courmont, and he sent his notification of copyright infringement to Apple in reaction to the FSF GNU Go case I linked above.

Here's his original post on the VLC mailing list.
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 07:15:51 AM »

Has anyone with an iDevice checked the app store? Is OpenArena in fact there?
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 08:04:38 AM »

You don't need an iDevice for that, because Apple would be crazy to ban Google's web crawlers from their site.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id422263923
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 10:06:59 AM »

Maybe i am just so blind, but i can not find any link to the licence or similar information.
there is also no reference to the source code Huh

maybe the project lead of oa has to contact apple...

An iInsertAnotherWordRightHere user around, who can check it through the official market app (maybe an iInsertAnotherWordRightHere delivers more information)?
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 10:33:52 AM »

Apple's terms and conditions can be found here.

As for the source code, the GPL specifies you must provide it, but it doesn't specify you have to make it easily obtainable, so it's perfectly legal to not distribute the source code by default but only to individuals after a personal request.
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 01:43:35 PM »

Aren't the id software games on the appstore also based on GPL'ed source code?

http://www.idsoftware.com/doom-classic/
--> source code at bottom

http://www.idsoftware.com/wolfenstein-3d-classic-platinum/index.html
--> ditto
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 02:19:21 PM »

Id can multi-license its software because it's the original author and copyright holder. It's only when you derive your software from GPL'ed code that you can't re-license it.

Since OA is derived from ioquake3 which in turn is derived from Id's GPL'ed Quake 3: Arena source code, nobody can legally re-license OA, not even Id.
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 02:22:29 PM »

Id can multi-license its software because it's the original author and copyright holder. It's only when you derive your software from GPL'ed code that you can't re-license it.

Since OA is derived from ioquake3 which in turn is derived from Id's GPL'ed Quake 3: Arena source code, nobody can legally re-license OA, not even Id.

Yes, they can, but they didnt. They used Wolf3d Redux, which is under GPL, to make Wolf3d on the iphone, and PrBoom, again GPL, to make Doom on the iphone. They too have to abide by the GPL.  And anyways, they're they only ones that could raise any issue about this.
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 02:58:49 PM »

Nope, every contributor to the misappropriated GPL' ed code can send Apple (the infringing distributor) a notification of copyright infringement.

Since everything in OA is licensed under the GPL, not only every coder, but also every mapmaker, modeler, skinner, artist etc. who's work made it into the product that's being distributed by Apple, could formally notify Apple. (This also means that an ioquake3 coder could do it.)

Edit:
I'm not suggesting anyone should do this on his own. Open source is a community effort, so please communicate instead of destroying the community by individual actions.
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 04:25:26 PM »

If anyone that contributed with anything to Openarena has a problem with it being distributed for a price then they should have not placed their work under a free license, but a non-commercial proprietary one, but isn't the whole point of OpenArena to be completely free ??  This is when the free-software nature of Openarena is really tested.
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fromhell
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2011, 04:55:38 PM »

The whole problem is more about Apple's TOS rather than the GPL.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2011, 02:17:16 AM »

If anyone that contributed with anything to Openarena has a problem with it being distributed for a price then they should have not placed their work under a free license, but a non-commercial proprietary one, but isn't the whole point of OpenArena to be completely free ??  This is when the free-software nature of Openarena is really tested.

Intellectual works (basically ideas) can only remain free as long as nobody is able to steal them, label them as their property and start telling other people what they can and cannot do with them. Just like you as a person are only really free when you've got some kind of legal assurance that nobody can take your freedom away from you: you're not really free when everybody can make you his slave.
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 04:51:19 AM »

That is old logic. the only assurance of your freedom that you need is the fact that you belong to the human species. fromhell and any other dev should be able to create free content, leave it alone for a while, and be positive its free when they come back.

Would you need legal assurance of your son's freedom if you left him at daycare? Or would he be their slave when you return to pick him up?
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 05:05:42 AM »

Would you need legal assurance of your son's freedom if you left him at daycare? Or would he be their slave when you return to pick him up?

We don't need individual legal insurance for our kids because we have general laws prohibiting slavery and kidnapping. We don't have such general laws regarding intellectual works, so just like freed slaves in roman times, our intellectual works individually need legal documentation to remain free.
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 05:06:46 AM »

I think they called that the GPL
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 06:01:03 AM »

Exactly Smiley Code isn't automatically GPL'ed unless you put the GPL legal boilerplate in the code.

Edit:
I don't know if its clear how far the analogy goes. Just like born slaves in ancient times, intellectual works basically are non-citizens, have no legal rights and are property of their creator (slave master). Licenses like the GPL (legal constructs) turn copyright law (laws enforcing slavery) against itself, ensuring that every intellectual work (born slave) they are applied to and all of its derivatives (children, grandchildren and farther offspring), are free and can never be legally seized (enslaved) again. You as the creator and copyright holder (slave master) have to actively license (brand) your works (former slaves) under a free license and have to legally defend them if the freedom you granted them by license is violated by others (because as non-citizens they can't do it themselves) .
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 03:14:36 AM by 7 » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 03:38:53 PM »

Would be awesome, GPL'ing your kids.
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2011, 04:39:53 PM »

As long as they are <18, they are closed source! Grin
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befno
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2011, 04:31:57 PM »

Going back to the topic, and im sure leilelol understood when i say openarena's point is to be free, that's in the case of GPL.  I think that if anything, this is marketing that openarena is getting, to new audiences, which pays by itself. 
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adriano
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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 04:34:57 AM »

Hello,
today I searched something on the Android Market and accidentely I founded this: Zeus Arena ( https://market.android.com/details?id=org.zeus.arena&feature=search_result )

I let you the folllowing comments...
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Gig
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 04:47:10 AM »

Wow, sounds interesting!  Smiley

Unluckly, I have an Android device, but not the Xperia Play...

Wait, maybe Kwaak3 (http://code.google.com/p/kwaak3/) may be what I could use with my Milestone2... (but reading its faqs, it seems OpenArena is not yet supported there)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 05:01:18 AM by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
fromhell
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2011, 08:15:42 AM »

DAMN ARE THOSE LIGHTMAPS SCREWED it's like they jacked the gamma up and killed overbrights
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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