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Author Topic: Tribute Mappack: The topic  (Read 19099 times)
Neon_Knight
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« on: January 08, 2012, 05:58:03 pm »

BEAR IN MIND: This is NOT a discussion over which maps should go into the next version of OA or which maps should get scrapped. Such topics are already being discussed here. This is only for the Tribute maps mappack. Anything else will be considered derailing.

0.8.8 will be the last time the Quake Remakes will be shipped with the main game. From 0.9.0 / OA3 onwards, they will be placed in a separate "Tribute to Quake" pack.

So far, the current content list in http://www.openarena.ws/svn/packs/tribute is the following:

- cbctf1 (Q3A's q3ctf4: Space CTF)
- ce1m7 (Quake's e1m7: House of Chthon)
- dm4ish (Quake's dm4: The Bad Place)
- dm6ish (Quake's dm6: The Dark Zone)
- oa_ctf4ish (Q3A's q3ctf4)
- oa_dm1 (Quake's dm1: The Place Of Two Deaths)
- oa_dm2 (Quake's dm2: Claustrophobopolis)
- oa_dm3 (Quake's dm3: Abandoned Base)
- oa_dm4 (Quake's dm4)
- oa_dm5 (Quake's dm5: The Cistern)
- oa_dm6 (Quake's dm6)
- oa_dm7 (Quake's cut map dm7: Acrophobia)
- q3dm6ish (Q3A's q3dm6: The Camping Grounds)
- wrackdm17 (Q3A's q3dm17: The Longest Yard)

It's pretty obvious that these maps became "classics" of both Q3A and OA, (and I'm still aware that not everyone knew the originals, but it isn't the point here) but at the same time it's also true that these maps have a lot of issues.

What should we do with these maps? Scrap some of them completely? Remake them? Fix them? Should we also include other Quake maps such as Q2's The Edge (q2dm1) Q2CTF's Capture Showdown (q2dm5) Q3A's Dueling Keeps (q3ctf1)?

So far, I've tried my hand at remaking q3dm6ish as q3dm6ishv3, with an additional CTF version, and I've also tried to do my own version of q3ctf1, though it's still just a .map file and I haven't published it yet.

Let the debate... begin! Cheesy
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 03:21:38 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 06:03:15 pm »

IMO I think there could be a few more Quake ports over

E2M3, E4M3 and E1M5

I wonder if the original entity list could also be used to serve as dual functionality so they could be played in Darkplaces+Quake Tongue

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 06:08:36 pm »

IICR, those maps are among the .map files in the Quake map sources.
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 06:19:26 pm »

Yeah, and quake's .map sources cover every map, including maps that didn't make the cut (DM7, first half of Dismal Oublette). I'm just mentioning those as I have fond memories of DMing those in the '90s. They were among some of the funner SP maps to DM in.

Also, fyi, darkplaces can load .ent files so you could tailor for OA in the BSP, and keep it for Quake in a .ent

another thing to watch out for is the lightstyles - Q3map2 will attempt to make shaders to fake animated lightmaps. You'll want to take out the lightstyles
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I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 06:24:41 pm »

E1M5, Gloom Keep, wasn't tributed by ztn?

EDIT: That last paragraph means no "-nocollapse"? I never use that switch. Well, I've used it when normal compile freezed my PC when I used Win, but nowadays I don't use that.
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 06:25:32 pm »

i'm not sure

BTW more tributes = more Generations Q3 fun Tongue
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I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 06:28:00 pm »

I do want to include to the list at least one Quake II remake. q2dm1 and q2ctf1 seems fun enough. (Fun fact: mckinleyish2 started as an "-ish" of q2ctf1)

Also ware3 and for mindless fragging fact3.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 09:49:01 pm »

Well, tried to open the original map in NetRadiant, no success until I found a handy tool for such work.

I'm surprised that everyone (even I) talks about the good mapping techniques when the boys at Id weren't exactly the best mappers ever. But those maps came from before the Quake series existed, so they're pardoned.

I vote for a recreation from scratch instead of trying to take the original map and fix it. -.-

EDIT: lei/FH, question... delta enters in this pack? It's very mpteam6 for me.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 04:57:54 am »

There were some Q2 DM maps that were nice enough. Some remakes could be good. Is "the edge" the one with the large "tower"? I liked it a lot, at the times...

PS, just a curiosity: why placing Quake series tribute maps to an optional package, and tributes to other games not?
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 02:36:15 pm »

Ask lei/FH.

BTW, some candidates for the TP:

- The Walrus's q3tourney6ish / tourney6ish_ctf.
- Moixie's q3dm6ish remixes.
- Malikith's q3dm17 version.

What I'm doing?

- oa_ctf1ish (Q3's Q3CTF1 - The Dueling Keeps)
- oa_e1m5 (Q1's E1M5 - Gloom Keep, just a test, but if someone's interested in completing it...)
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 03:39:18 pm »

OA already has many maps, so i guess you should not make (just) a q3 tribute pack.
What about some kind of "additional pack" which includes
- tributes
- maps which are not included in OA next for different reasons

OA just should have "quality" maps inside.
"quality" could be:
- eyecandy
- gameplay

How many maps should be included in OA next?
Which maps will make it and which will be out?
Is there any direction, maps for OA should go (e.g. just medival style, gothic or industrial ones)?
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 04:08:23 pm »

Current OA (0.8.8 ) has a lot of castle/temple maps, and variants of the castle/temple setting. There're some industrial maps as well. And OFC the space maps. Since we cannot directly delete maps which were already present in 0.8.1 and 0.8.5, the best route to take for us was to "dummy out" several of the maps (i.e. not allowing them to be shown in the Skirmish and Create Server menu) Still, we cannot control which maps the servers have in their maplists until the next full version.

For 0.9.0 it's expected that the amount of maps should be lowered, and the dummied out maps should be atticed, remaked or improved enough. Many maps can get cut aside of the remakes.

BTW, my definition of quality is about gameplay + visuals + performance. The three of them should be present in a map to be considered a quality map.
Only gameplay dates a lot the map and doesn't add anything to the game. This is also true for the combination gameplay + performance - visuals.
Only visuals only serves for flyby or benchmarking, but not for actual playing. The same is true for gameplay + visuals - performance and performance + visuals - gameplay.
Only performance has no utility at all.

But we aren't professional mappers/modellers/etc, and people bash us in other places for not being professional enough. But without actual help, we can't do anything.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 05:22:04 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Gig
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 05:07:43 pm »

I agree with both of you.

Probably, OA0.9.0/OA3 will have much less "stock" maps. Only best quality maps (gameplay+visuals+performance) will be keeped. Ok.
Anyway, there are many maps that are good and nice that, even if they will not be in OA3 official package, many people may like to continue playing. Of course quake tributes, but not only quake tributes. Tribute to other games or not... "hystorical" or "future" maps... they can be worth to continue "living", even if in an optional package only.
It may be a single extra package, or many extra packages, but continuing to distribute them somehow will be a nice thing.
Of course, not maps excluded cause of license problems or major bugs/incompatibilities... but many maps should have no problem.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 09:57:15 pm »

Ok for making tribute and oldies packs, but then please include VOID4 !!!

No seriously, making separate maps packs to only keep high quality maps in the core game is a good idea, but then it should be accompanied with a change in the handling of custom material in OpenArena (see related post about some ideas like making a download splashscreen like in UrbanTerror), because else these packs will be lost since most players don't know how to handle the downloading of third-party material in-game. And if OA core only keep a few maps in stock, it won't be very fun to see most servers running only these few maps again and again.
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Gig
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 02:04:44 am »

I hope that additional map pack(s) download(s) will be available in the main site download page, just below main game download, easy enough to recognize...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 07:47:02 am »

I'll try to rerail this topic once more. Please, remember that this topic is for gathering people for the Tribute pack, NOT a topic to discuss which maps should go in 0.9.0/OA3. I'll open a thread for that later.

Here's my work on e1m5. As I've said before, it's just a test, and someone should take the work of recreating this map from scratch. It uses ambientlight because I'm not interested on working on a map so flawed as this one.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 11:32:30 am »

Here's an alpha version of Q3CTF1. It's just the .map file, with spawnpoints for both teams and the flags, but no weapons or items.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2013, 04:11:28 pm »

Added the disclaimer. =)

In these days I was working on oa_dm5. The map had a lot of structural problems, mainly that a single brush was shared among many rooms, and there were no real curves, so I wanted to change that, to give oa_dm5 a more Q3-feel than Q1-feel. I've also added the passage featured in oa_dm5v2, which connects the Northeast and Southeast rooms with the Water area.

There will also be a new placement, this time there will be a sweet goodie behind the door (Not BFG, I was thinking one of the holdables or a TA weapon, perhaps Nailgun or Chaingun?) so the button/door system will be kept.

I'm trying to keep acc's changes as much as I can.

Here're some screenshots.

 
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2013, 10:45:43 am »

Oh, and now we have DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Quake_Tribute_Mappack]a Wiki page for this.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2016, 10:18:37 am »

Bump! Seeing as Adriano's version of q3ctf4 can be a good alternative for oa_ctf4ish I'll be reviving this topic. I'll be hosting the work we do in a Github repository (I'll create it tomorrow), now that I've learned a few things about how it works.

I have also started the work on a remake of q3ctf1, it's still incomplete and very blocky (I'm in the middle of a creative block -.-) and I'm also including these two GPLd versions of q3tourney6 (both DM and CTF) and the older version of am_mckinleyish, the one closer to the original q2dm1.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 10:21:45 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2016, 04:36:16 pm »

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here it is! Clone the following repository.

Code:
git clone https://github.com/NeonKnightOA/oatributemappack

Things to do:
- Choose or fuse: either leave one version of the current maps and delete the rest, or try to find a "happy medium" by choosing one version of the map and adding the changes made to the other versions.
- Improve the remaining map list once the above is done.
- Clean the .maps folder so only the chosen maps are there.
- Add building scripts.
- Add an .arena/.info file generator.
- Add the rest of the folders.
- RELEASE!

With this repo, let the mapping work begin!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 04:38:48 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2016, 07:21:37 pm »

Added Moixie's q3dm6(ish) remakes.
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2016, 07:26:32 pm »

odd you say "Quake maps only" when there's obvious UT/Q3/U remakes in there


(anyway, awaiting e2m3, e4m3, e1m5, e1m2, end)


also keep in mind of the quake scale difference - it's roughly 0.8 smaller. g_enableQ in the latest VMs should help debug and realize proportions (but don't rely on it)
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
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I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2016, 07:28:47 pm »

Yeah, that fan just got past the radar. In the last commit I've deleted it, and used folders to sort everything.
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2016, 03:59:20 am »

Hello, recently returned to the city, slowly starting to go into map threads again...

This is interesting, although I'm not so sure about having the maps repository slitted between svn site (http://openarena.ws/svn, which is however not very practical, because at least the web version does not show version history... I suppose an SVN client is required to really use it) and a separate git repo, not managed by Fromhell. However I suppose Fromhell may just copy the required files from Git to Svn repository when it's the right time.

About the OA3 "Tribute Mappack", I have not fully understood if that's meant to host Quake-only remakes or all remakes from other games (one may reverse the question and ask if stock OA3 will contain such remakes or not). Will it be a "Quake Tribute Mappack" or a "Tribute Mappack"?

There is a wikia page named "DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Quake_Tribute_Mappack]Quake Tribute Mappack", maybe that should have been named "Tribute Mappack" or "OA3/Tribute Mappack"? It mentions a non-Quake-remake policy, but (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OA3#Maps currently mentions:
Quote
The game will be shipped only with unique, non-knockoff maps. Tributes and remakes of commercial games' maps enter the third-party territory.
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OA3/NOTTODO currently does not mention anything about remakes/tributes, instead.
So?

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