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Author Topic: Static source code releases  (Read 3192 times)
grey matter
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« on: January 31, 2012, 01:47:05 pm »

Don't ban me for this, but I'm looking for yet another source code download Smiley What I'm seeking for is the full source code (engine+gamecode) for the latest version of the game, i.e. v0.8.5.

I've found openarena-modSDK-0.8.5-6.tar.bz2 and openarena-engine-source-0.8.5-1.tar.bz2 on sago's FTP. I'm not quite certain that these are the right files. Is there no combined archive? Possibly without these nasty .svn folders, because I just need a static export.

If I'm not entirely mistaken, this archive should also be included or at least linked to in the complete downloads, as required per GPL.

Maybe I've just missed it several times, but I think something vital as this (for an open source game) should be easier to find.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:49 pm »

Your request seems similar to mine:

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4420.0

About binaries, you should take them here:
http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/oa/dev081/

Someone said that 0.8.5 binaries are openarena-engine-source-0.8.x-13.tar.bz2 but I can't assure you.

About gamecode, you should probably take OAX:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.0
(Although I don't know which version exactly is used for OA 085)

Anyway, there are more recent versions in development so that you probably should take these if you're developping something.

Latest binaries:
openarena-engine-source-0.8.x-28.tar.bz2 at http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/oa/dev081/

Latest gamecode:
http://code.google.com/p/oax/
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Gig
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 02:39:45 pm »

Well, the Wiki home page has got some links to the svn, to OAX gamecode, and to Sago's FTP binaries.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page#Coding-wise_.26_other_stuff
Maybe Fromhell may do something to make them easier to in the main site? Main site updating is not open to anyone like the wiki...

About making downloads in different format... I have no idea...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 03:06:42 pm »

About gamecode, you should probably take OAX:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.0
(Although I don't know which version exactly is used for OA 085)
When a version is released, Sago branches the code. This started at 0.8.5. You might want to take a look at:

svn/branches/oa-0.8.5
svn/branches/oa-0.8.8
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 04:16:34 pm »

When a version is released, Sago branches the code. This started at 0.8.5. You might want to take a look at:

svn/branches/oa-0.8.5
svn/branches/oa-0.8.8

Can't find these links here on this website's svn. Could you give a full url please?

/EDIT: did you mean "source" instead of "branches"?

http://openarena.ws/svn/source/081/

But I can't find the branch for oa 0.8.8
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grey matter
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 04:26:21 pm »

So there's no vcs repository for the engine part of the source code? Why separating gamecode and engine anyways? In  times of DCVS and platforms like GitHub there's no real reason not to have one master repository for all the source code. You can still have assets on a separate repository, that's not a problem.

I think it's important that you (as a team) add the full exact source code for every full release or patch to the homepage. Since I do have difficulties finding the code, other people might have the same problems. If those are package maintainers of Debian, Gentoo, FreeBSD then that's even worse. I've just taken a look at the Gentoo OA 0.8.5 .ebuild to see that it uses openarena-engine-0.8.1-1.tar.bz2, ouch. Furthermore it's difficult to report bugs for two separate projects, where the engine part does not even seem to have its own bugtracker.

I'd suggest you (fromhell) add a source section to the downloads at the openarena.ws homepage, which links to both the static full source (as in openarena-0.8.5-src.zip) code of the latest version and may link to _one vcs repository with development code (or link to the wiki for the latter).
It's very contra productive to have the source code scattered like this. Bad for possible contributors, package maintainers, testers and yourself.

If you want to go one step further, add the source code archive into your next release (oa088.zip?). Its size is neglectible compared to the assets and it makes sure everyone _has the _correct source code.

@GrosBedo: Branches in OAX http://code.google.com/p/oax/source/browse/branches/
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SooKee
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 10:12:38 pm »

I have to say that I am confused over how to get the source code as well. It would be so much simpler if it was all  in one repository. I would probably have done some development work on OA before now if the source were more accessible. Preferably through anon SVN or other revision control system.
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 10:37:59 am »

Why separating gamecode and engine anyways?
Because the engine code for a long time was taken from ioquake3 with OA modifications. It is just recently that the engine has derived that much from ioquake3 that just doing that has become difficult.

The gamecode started as a mod and then added to the game.

They where developed independently at least in OpenArena's case. So far the benefits has just been more to the favor of independent development. If you one day create a derivative that does not have backward-compatibility as a goal a huge benefit would be archived from merging them and I would certainly do so if that was the case.

That some releases comes with multiple engines has not simplified it either.
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grey matter
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 12:21:59 pm »

I don't see the benefit of having separate repositories for an OA specific engine, whose OA specific changes are used by the OA gamecode. If you rename "r_bloom" to "r_megaBloom" you'll have to do so in gamecode/q3_ui as well as engine/renderer. These two parts are in no way independant. It does not matter whether there are different people (code monkeys) working on each part, that can be covered nicely with a DCVS like Git (and one master repository).

All this separation makes it just more difficult for all of us. Why does the gamecode still have another name (it's oaX, not oa)? Why don't you bundle the source code within the full/patch downloads? Why does the website still link to old versions of the code (the wiki is no excuse, since the website is what you visit first)?

I must say I'm a little disappointed. You claim that the game is open source, yet obviously no one knows where to find all these fragments with the right versions. If even the developers themselves can not give simple answers and valid arguments as to why this is, there's something wrong with the way you're developing. Furthermore it's a volation of the GPL license, which says you need to provide the exact and complete source of all released versions to anyone (even over years!).
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Gig
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 04:09:36 pm »

About OAX name, have you read its page on the wiki?
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OAX
It stands for OpenArena eXpanded. It's just a name... it may have just be named as OAT (OpenArena Test), OAD (OpenArena Development), OAWIP (OpenArena Work in Progress).... it's just a name, I mean! Not naming it simply "OpenArena" is good to distinguish development versions from official versions. The wiki page explains that OAX are beta versions created for testing purposes, to be easily used like mods. I don't find anything wrong with that. I don't see the point with making polemics about that...

About source code availability, there are some projects out there that probably really violate the GPL (e.g. third party Mac ports that only send sources to people expressly asking them via mail or blog!)... but in OpenArena the sources are pubicly available, even if you have to look inside svn repositories (if you don't find old releases at all, it's probably just because they have been removed due to the discovery of license problems with some of the files within them). At the moment, the user that wants them have to do not be lazy... anyway maybe Fromhell may make a "sources" page in the main site with links easier to find...
Of course, sometimes it is possible to do things in better ways... but please discuss calmly about them, ok?

Anyway, it's better if I let Fromhell and Sago answer: I should not talk about things I'm not too much into.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 04:16:08 pm »

@Gig: I think the problem resides more in the centralization of the sources rather than the name or the support used.

I do think that separating the gamecode and the engine is a great decision, it helps a lot in the dev process, and economize a lot of time that would be otherwise spent trying to know whether the modification you're doing will happen in the gamecode or the engine.

About the GPL, indeed with v2 you have to attach the sourcecode with any distribution of the binaries. With GPL v3, it's no longer a requirement because you can simply give an URL where you can fetch the sourcecode. But I don't think that's a major problem even with GPL v2.
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SooKee
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 10:49:45 pm »

About the GPL, indeed with v2 you have to attach the sourcecode with any distribution of the binaries. With GPL v3, it's no longer a requirement because you can simply give an URL where you can fetch the sourcecode. But I don't think that's a major problem even with GPL v2.

Actually you don't have to attach the source code, you simply have an obligation to provide the source code for up to 3 years:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html

Quote from: GPL 2.0
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

    a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
    b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
    c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
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SooKee
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 11:50:28 pm »

Just to recap... where is the source code again? (0.8.8)
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