i hate ciggaweed!

[Jewjitsu]

Anyone with IQ above 40 would take me seriously

So... You calculate people's IQs based on how seriously they take your belly aching? Who are you, Al Gore?

If I was as shallow as you I would say you are defending and trying to keep this problem just so you could continue abusing it, you do seem like the type of person who would jump off the platform and deny a kill.

Yawn, I could probably jump off platforms the whole game and still win vs you. You should learn how to be mocked.

Calling me a liar is really low and a desperate attempt to make it look like the problem isn't there. You are delusional.

I have been a lawyer for 12 years and a prosecutor for 3 of them. I know bovine excrement when I see it. I'm not desperate, I was mildly amused but you become more boring by the minute.

@Gig sorry but I'm not gonna bother making demos of the server, since I don't really care, and I am not gonna waste my time on there..

You dont? Then explain this crap you said just 3 lines above:

I'm obviously pointing out a big problem this server has, and not only I noticed the problem but OP as well, and probably many more..

And finally, the only honest thing you've said all day:

Plus majority is angry with ciggaweed, because in my emo dream land everyone agrees with me and cares what I think. Therefor my investigation would be embarrassing. I hope no one seen what a dumb crybaby I am. I envy Jewjitsu and his manly pecs.

[Edit] Nice job editing your post after the fact. That's just low man.

[Color]

Edit:
stop making yourself look like a joke, clown

[Gig]

And finally, the only honest thing you've said all day:

Plus majority is angry with ciggaweed, because in my emo dream land everyone agrees with me and cares what I think. Therefor my investigation would be embarrassing. I hope no one seen what a dumb crybaby I am. I envy Jewjitsu and his manly pecs.

Uh? This sounds like a joke or a fake. It seems unlikely that someone may have posted a such thing.

However, what about stopping this sort of flame war?

To sum up:
- Ciggaweed server is a place for casual players, where people can have fun if they just like to play the game without caring the score table.
- It can be played also by people having the old 0.8.1 release. Of course this means that later features are not available.
- Some players that play there seem to have annoying behaviors, like suiciding for deying a score to the attacker.
- If one wants a more "pro" challenge, or taking advantage of 0.8.5+ features (e.g. "award pushing"), there are other servers around... and also DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OpenArena_Clan_Roster]Clans who run their own private servers.

[Jewjitsu]

Erm, it was over until you began to kick a dead horse.

Oh and one more thing, to Gig this time:

I don't have any problems with Color, but I do take issue with people who come on the OA dev forums to complain about a negative experience they had in a privately run server, wasting everyone's time with their incessant whining and highly exaggerated and embellished anecdotes of their troubles. I find it highly annoying and immature of those who do it, and just as it is their right to complain, I have a right to respond with mockery in similar measure. At least I'm very aware that I'm wasting my time on these boards and not trying to push some narrow opinion.

[Color]

Erm, it was over until you began to kick a dead horse.

Oh and one more thing, to Gig this time:

I don't have any problems with Color, but I do take issue with people who come on the OA dev forums to complain about a negative experience they had in a privately run server, wasting everyone's time with their incessant whining and highly exaggerated and embellished anecdotes of their troubles. I find it highly annoying and immature of those who do it, and just as it is their right to complain, I have a right to respond with mockery in similar measure. At least I'm very aware that I'm wasting my time on these boards and not trying to push some narrow opinion.

From what I noticed this specific section Open Arena/Multiplayer isn't a Development section (DEV) it's a public section for players to discuss Open Arena multiplayer which IS Open Arena private servers and such. And I'm sorry but I can't really find where it says that this forum is a Developers only forum, and if it was I wouldn't be allowed to have account or post if I wasn't a developer.
I'm a game developer and I've been on couple of development forums, they don't show me development sections until I get a developer rank on the forum.. or the development forums are "view only" for non-developers.

Pointing out a issue about a server is not pointless, and it's not pointing out the issue for Developers but for the server owners !!

And after all that, why does this concern you ? If we did post a complaint on a dev forum directed to devs and not the server owners, why is it your problem ? You aren't a dev and frankly you seem to be on this forum just to flame people and act like an angry teenager. And if you find a post as a waste of time, don't read it, let alone reply to it, common sense ?

[Jewjitsu]

Angry? Me? Listen to yourself.

[Color]

Angry? Me? Listen to yourself.

I'm replying to you in a polite way, not showing any hard feelings.. Because there is none, I don't see a point in getting hard feelings over a game.

But on the other side there's you, calling me a liar and flaming me, editing a quote just to attempt to insult me.

Just proves how delusional you are.

[Jewjitsu]

Are you calling me a liar? I should sue you for libel.

[Gig]

Guys, please stop flaming each other. Stop.
I fear Fromhell may lock this thread.

[Color]

Are you calling me a liar? I should sue you for libel.

I'm sorry if you don't see why I'm insulted with you calling me a liar, I put time and effort to point out a problem this server has so the owner could do something about it, I was trying to help out (you can say I was harsh but it was just my method to make the problem more evident), and you are completely denying it with no basis, for what ? Just to start a forum flame war ?

You have no evidence to back up your judgement that I'm lying, and yet you are so strongly holding on to it.

After all even if I was lying or exaggerating, my examples aren't impossible to happen and are actually likely to happen. Your judgement is irrelevant, you need to stop posting and discouraging a change..

@Gig I'm not flaming anyone.

[Gig]

An admin of that server read this thread and wrote his own point of view three days ago: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4598.msg47478#msg47478

I don't know if that admin read later posts.... however having two players continuing arguing here who's a liar and who's not sounds pointless, and unlikely the server will change something when we will have discovered "who is offending who".

Please, make peace and not war... or just go fragging!  

[Color]

An admin of that server read this thread and wrote his own point of view three days ago: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4598.msg47478#msg47478

I don't know if that admin read later posts.... however having two players continuing arguing here who's a liar and who's not sounds pointless, and unlikely the server will change something when we will have discovered "who is offending who".

Please, make peace and not war... or just go fragging!  

I have read his post and I agree with him on everything,
but thing is the troll players can be slightly limited, they can lose a toy - suicide to prevent a kill can be fixed !

On most of the servers I played when you hit somebody and he /kills himself or falls in a pit, you'll get the kill since you did spend ammo on him and put him in the situation to suicide/fall off (it even says ">name< was given a small push by Color!". On the CTF and TDM servers it's not as important as on a DM server, so I'm surprised this doesn't work on Ciggaweed !

You said that the server is using 0.8.1 version and not 0.8.5 (where that problem was fixed), so I would suggest updating the server and limiting the trolls somewhat !

I'm hoping he read the later posts and will read this one, I've seen him online few times.

[EvilDrBrain]

This has been the most amusing discussion in a while – of course I’ve been reading it

Color, you’re not wrong to recommend updating the server…however, Marquis has repeatedly expressed a reluctance to do so, naming the server’s lengthy uptime (it’s been running with very few interruptions for years now) and his desire to avoid (for now) any unknowns brought about by an update as his main reasons. Also, as Color noted, most players on Ciggaweed are happy with the server as is.

Personally, I hate award pushing. It’s sorta like bowling with the bumpers raised (after all, why bother fragging people if you can simply knock them off an edge to earn a point?). However, if there are enough players like Color and Jakash3 who are having problems scoring frags otherwise, then maybe enabling it should be considered. I’ll mention it to Marq and ask around on Cigga to see what the general consensus is.

Thanks for the suggestion! And thanks Gig for being a good referee!

[Color]

I don't have a problem scoring without pushing people, I have came out 1st most (80+% maybe) of times I played on Ciggaweed (or I was close to first with less time than everyone else)

My only problem is I air rocket somebody he falls off and I don't get a frag, jumping from rail platform on Wrackdm makes you invulnerable since if you are hit you will fall in the pit and the enemy won't get a kill, and while you are jumping you have rail on and can take half of anybodies hp, while they can't do anything to you..

Waste of ammo and health aiming at anyone who has the possibility to fall off, or run off.

[EvilDrBrain]

I don't have a problem scoring without pushing people

Not entirely what I meant, though that does seem to be the source of this whole trouble, no? That is, certain players are upset because they are not picking up frags that they could otherwise score with award pushing enabled.

There's an eminently simpler solution to this problem, and it involves doing a little bit of thinking while you play. In the example you used (i.e., on wrackdm17), it is not impossible to frag someone in mid-flight from the rail platform to the main area. In fact, it's pretty easy: machine gun the target before you air rocket (or rail) it. Whittling down HP is, after all, the main purpose of the Machine Gun. Sure, award pushing would save you a step in this instance, but it's not the only possibility of scoring a point in such a situation. And if that doesn't work and the opponent still falls to his/her death, then accept the lost ammo, be proud of your shot anyway, and MOVE ON.

[Jewjitsu]

Hi drbrain! 

I haven't heard much in the suggestions about solutions to these so-called problems with ciggaweed. It seems one person would prefer that the server be updated to 0.8.5 or later and enable award pushing. The problem with a single unhappy player trying to impose his will on everyone is that he doesn't understand why so many people prefer to play there. For instance, if you take away the ability for campers to camp, or lamers to be lame, then you will make it another boring ultra competitive server that no one wants to play on (OA has over 50 servers that never have a single player on them already).

So continue to exaggerate, you haters of ciggaweed, continue to make up stories and complain, you'll just never understand why it's fun and enjoyable. Here's a hint: video games are meant to be FUN. I'm done.

[fromhell]

It does make me wonder why I even bother pushing out new versions anymore if no one is going to play them.

[Jewjitsu]

People certainly play the newer versions, but there will always be die-hards who like the style of the older version. My main issue with the newer versions are the "enhanced" maps. But i DO like using r_intensity on powerup whores on ciggaweed. Sure it may not be fair but not everyone wants a completely fair giggle-free experience. Aside from that, I think the new version changes were largely positive, but ciggaweed should hardly be considered a serious competitive server, which is where I think the strength of the newer versions (and aftershock) really shine.

[Gig]

My only problem is I air rocket somebody he falls off and I don't get a frag, jumping from rail platform on Wrackdm makes you invulnerable since if you are hit you will fall in the pit and the enemy won't get a kill, and while you are jumping you have rail on and can take half of anybodies hp, while they can't do anything to you..

Well, I would not call it being "invulnerable". If you fall in the void, you lose a point!
By the way, the attacker may use other strategies, like switching to machinegun just after firing the rocket, and trying finishing you with it before you reach the instant-death point... or let you complete the jump, but having an exploding rocket waiting for you on the ground where you will land.

[Jewjitsu]

Gig: Haven't you figured it out? He's just flaming the server and has no cause to do so without bending the truth. He's not exactly an "air-rocket" capable player and another ciggaweed admin (a trustworthy fellow) has told me he spent an entire game flaming and complaining after being legitimately fragged a few times (and he wasn't even kicked for flaming an admin). But I'd like to pay as little attention to that matter, especially when fromhell has graced us with a comment I'd like to debate. Namely why some players prefer 081 over 088. Perhaps we could start a topic about that and leave the low-brow banter here?

The upcoming discussion has the potential to be thought provoking and insightful, unlike this thread. So that is where you'll find me instead.

[Color]

EvilDrBrain, if there is still a chance that he falls off even with me adding more effort to killing him (switching weapon etc) it's even a bigger award for him and a bigger minus for me.

And the trolls who intentionally jump off are being totally ignored by all of you.

It's award pushing against kill denying - for award push you need at least some skill, for kill denying, none.

Not to mention that I could go on the server with bind /kill and suicide every time I get a good chunk of health taken, wouldn't that be fun trolling ? OH sorry if I just gave Jewjitsu a good idea.  

@Jewjitsu, I didn't make this topic therefor I'm not the only one. As for flaming an admin and all that, I'm obviously not a flamer.. Oops there goes you trustworthy-ness ? Few months ago I was arguing with campers on ROFL All rockets, then I noticed it's pointless.. If I don't like the game I'm playing there's no need to stay there, I'm playing to have fun, to be active, take risks, when I see a really good player who is camping I just get annoyed since it's ruining the whole idea of CTF. So if I get annoyed with people killing themselves to prevent me from killing, I leave. Your trustworthy friend had no chance to see me flaming, I was gone.
But if you are gonna talk about my behavior on servers, yesterday I went on superCTF, and 3 guys there asked me if I'm Color from the forum, when I said yes they told me not to pay attention to you because you are a well known troll. And what they said, unlike what your "trustworthy friend" said, is true, because you proved it on this topic !

I'm sorry that I pointed out my opinion, and suggested a update, I was wrong, I didn't put in consideration that there should be one trollfest server to keep the trolls away from the rest of servers. Thank you Ciggaweed !

As for me not being an air rocket capable guy, I'm always 1st in ROFL All rockets, and I have more flag captures than defense kills ! Haha
I'm actually collecting video footage of my air rockets and I'll put them in a video ! ^^
On AS Clanarena server, supeR_Gargoyle hates me for my rockets

Best regards, Color !

[Gig]

Not to mention that I could go on the server with bind /kill and suicide every time I get a good chunk of health taken, wouldn't that be fun trolling ?

Considering that using /kill gives you "-1" score, you would probably end up last in placement. A normal user would not do that. A troll may do that, however other players may "callvote kick" him or an admin may ban him. No need to further talk about this stuff, IMHO.

[Jewjitsu]

Actually, Color is absolutely right. I perfected the art of humorous killbinding. But one freak game I managed to win anyway while killbinding every time a good chunk of health was taken (I even used timing so precise that rails would pass through me as I died). DrBrain can validate that this is an authentic screenie. http://imageshack.us/a/img145/8819/shot0010g.jpg

I managed to not get banned by reciting gothic poetry and displaying "Emo killed himself" when I suicided and passed out razors to everyone who managed to frag me, and the GOLDEN razor to those who managed to gauntlet me. It became its own sub-game and some true emo-fragging pros emerged (such as dots and drbrain sheesh I hate those guys).

Color, I think nobody cares about frag denial because THEY LOSE A POINT FOR DOING IT. But my antics have spawned some annoying copycat behavior that people have been kicked over. If I had it to do over again... I would, come to think of it why did I ever stop? Thanks for reminding me Color, I'll start laming the servers up again. You have inspired me. 

[Gig]

Just a random thing that suddently hit my mind:

can I suggest a way to play without this deny-killing problem? Play on some insta-gib server (corkscrew mod for example). One hit = one kill. People may thoretically still suicide, but they cannot rely on the low health calculation...

[Color]

I didn't say you do it I just said I gave you a idea to start doing it, yet another tool for your trolling tools set.

But lets look at the pro's and con's ?

Award pushing:
Cons:
- Awards a push.
Pros:
- Requires skill.
- Can not be abused.
- Awards you for the ammo you spent.
- Awards you for the health you lost.

Kill Deny:
Cons:
- Wastes your ammo.
- Wastes your health.
- Chance to deny a skill shot.
- Can be abused.
- Requires no skill.
- Tool for trolls.
Pros:
- Disables award pushing.
- One who does it loses a kill.