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Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 531380 times)
jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1025 on: September 12, 2013, 10:58:06 am »

Hi Jan, thank you for the update.  Smiley


Thanks for responding/testing/reporting!! I'll see what i can do about those things tonight. About the telefrags, is that with FFA?


In the mean time i've been giving dm3 the same treatment; worked out some bugs: music, longname, spawnpoints.

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm3beta4.pk3

One thing failed though:
I did add chaulk behind bevels, to try and make them stop flickering, but it did not work...
I also tried chault around the bevels, but the the bevels wheren't lit...

I am open to suggestions about these bevels..i think reconstruction the walls so that the bevel don't touch them should be possible...

« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:07:05 am by jangroothuijse » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #1026 on: September 12, 2013, 11:09:15 am »

About the telefrags, is that with FFA?
Yes, FFA.

About your dm3, I'll try to take a look tomorrow. Bye!

PS: If you wanna give your own feedback to udestruction V12, in the meanwhile (only Akom did test it for the moment!!!!)...  Smiley
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« Reply #1027 on: September 12, 2013, 12:44:50 pm »

About the telefrags, is that with FFA?
Yes, FFA.

About your dm3, I'll try to take a look tomorrow. Bye!

PS: If you wanna give your own feedback to udestruction V12, in the meanwhile (only Akom did test it for the moment!!!!)...  Smiley

According to the screenshots; it seems like a pretty flat layout with an ellipse as boundary (is this going to be replaced for mountains or so?). I'm personally not font of the so called "city" maps (as the "OPENMAFIA" server states so), because it's just a very open room with barely any cover except some buildings (which are often poor flowing as well).
So I would advice to replace the ellipse for something more realistic and add more depth into the layout.
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1028 on: September 12, 2013, 01:49:59 pm »

slight update of dm3:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm3beta4a.pk3

botclips are now where they where suppose to be again...which reduces bot stutter.
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1029 on: September 12, 2013, 02:46:12 pm »


I've updated the file to: add even more spawnpoints (5 extra); fix the glitch above the teleporter; fix the corner; turn the spawnpoints so you don't look at the nearest wall.
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1030 on: September 12, 2013, 03:05:39 pm »

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta4.pk3

Now features some music and a long name message....
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pelya
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« Reply #1031 on: September 12, 2013, 09:33:37 pm »

PS: If you wanna give your own feedback to udestruction V12, in the meanwhile (only Akom did test it for the moment!!!!)...  Smiley
So I would advice to replace the ellipse for something more realistic and add more depth into the layout.

Yeah, you could make the wall around Udestruction much much lower, just at the height of your head, and put transparent all-clip region up to the top, because I would rather look at the sky than at the wall, and the map won't look like oversized box.
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Gig
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« Reply #1032 on: September 13, 2013, 12:32:49 am »

According to the screenshots; it seems like a pretty flat layout with an ellipse as boundary (is this going to be replaced for mountains or so?). I'm personally not font of the so called "city" maps (as the "OPENMAFIA" server states so), because it's just a very open room with barely any cover except some buildings (which are often poor flowing as well).
So I would advice to replace the ellipse for something more realistic and add more depth into the layout.

Please actually test the map, for a proper feedback. Also keep in mind its original layout was thought for Elimination (Clan Arena) mode.... then many small changes have been done, to make it more bot-friendly and more adapt also for other gametypes.

About the boundaries, in the first months of development, I tried different ways to make them... but none of them really satisfied me.

You can also try these previous versions of the map, to see the various results.
- Version01: plain vertical walls (big box effect).
- Version02: sloping walls.
- Version03: External part, protected by player clip, with some (unreachable) buildings...
- Version04 and later: vertical walls, but made of curved surfaces.
Curved vertical walls of V4+ are vaguely inspired by Jan's DM3 map, and are there since March. I have not found a better way (and at that time, I asked several times help in that direction).

Yeah, you could make the wall around Udestruction much much lower, just at the height of your head, and put transparent all-clip region up to the top, because I would rather look at the sky than at the wall, and the map won't look like oversized box.
Uh? With "at the height of your head", do you mean two meters above ground floor? Are you forgetting the "hall of mirrors" effect that happens if you see Q3 sky from upside? I had to make the sky very high, to prevent people from crashing their head in the ceiling even if they are rocket-jumping from the top of the highest building.... and I had to make the outer walls very high, too, to prevent people from looking at the sky from upside.

PS: I was mainly searching for feedback about bot-related hitches and about what do you think about latest (V11, V12) changes...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 03:02:30 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #1033 on: September 13, 2013, 12:40:28 am »

If you have a closed skybox, like in Akom's space map, you won't see hall of mirrors effect.
Well, it's too late to bring that suggestion, as you've said, so never mind.
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Gig
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« Reply #1034 on: September 13, 2013, 01:23:22 am »

Akom's space maps have the arena floating in outer space, with plain black skies/stars on the outer walls... For this map, I like current animated grey/green clouds...
However, are you saying that a closed skybox would also work with cloudy sky shaders, maybe? I've just done a try, it still shows hall of mirrors effect (if with "skybox" we mean the sky shader on all the six faces of a big box around all the playable area).

@Jan:

Oajgdm3beta4a: Good, no more initial telefrag with 16 players. I'll try to give a look with the editor, if I can do some try with caulk... In the meanwhile, I noticed that some items maybe are placed too close each other (see screenshot).

Oajgdm1beta4: Initially, I didn't hear music and didn't see loading text. Then I figured out that you already used "oajgdm1beta4" name in a previous version: that was in a previous "fix" package that included 3 maps from you. After deleting that previous package, the game actually loaded the new version, with music and loading text. Good, no more initial telefrag with 16 players. Did you also add some more jump-pads recently? It seems ok...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:04:42 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #1035 on: September 13, 2013, 04:01:40 am »

Jan... I try to explain how I think "caulk" should be used behind your curves, if I correctly understood how to use it.

Note: I took these screenshots with Q3Radiant... you may see different colors in GTKRadiant or NetRadiant.
In the first screenshot, there is the current version of your map. Note: I "hid" some botclip_brushes/bevels/caps, to show underlying brushes.

In the second screenshot, I selected only one face (ctrl+shift+click, at least in Q3R) of the brush that is behind the bevel (it's light red -pink?- when selected).

Then I clicked on the "caulk" shader from texture window, to apply it to that face.
I repeated the operation for the other two brushes, the one on the left and the one on the right (note: ctrl+P hides/shows all curve brushes: it may be useful for do not erroneously select the bevel instead of the brush behind it). In the third screenshot, you see how it looks like then. Then it is possible to show previously hidden stuff again.

Did you already try this exact thing?

PS: A think I noticed while taking a look to your map:
"Scripts/miramar.shader" file includes "textures/miramar/miramar" shader, which mentions "textures/miramar/miramar.tga"... but I'm not able to find that file...

PPS: Can I ask you to give another look to your massive "botclip" walls? Although I'm not so sure enormous botclip walls with small "clusterportal-ed" passages are the best solution to logically subdivide the arena in clusters (already tried using just enormous clusterportals for that work, instead? And/or compiling from DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials#Q3Map2_Front-Ends]q3map2build, in case bots don't move after compiling from NetRadiant?)... if you wanna use those big botclip walls, could you please check there are passages in all the places where they are needed?
Take a look to the fourth screenshot (this time, taken from GTKRadiant: botclip is yellow, and clusterportal is red and black): on the right platform, there is one passage that allows bots to continue walking on that platform... but on the left platform, there is no passage: a bot arriving there can only go back or jump down from the platform. It is not seen in the screenshot, but also on the other end of that platform, there is a similar situation. Maybe you may open some more passages.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 08:47:11 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #1036 on: September 13, 2013, 08:52:52 am »

Akom's space maps have the arena floating in outer space, with plain black skies/stars on the outer walls... For this map, I like current animated grey/green clouds...
However, are you saying that a closed skybox would also work with cloudy sky shaders, maybe? I've just done a try, it still shows hall of mirrors effect (if with "skybox" we mean the sky shader on all the six faces of a big box around all the playable area).

Gig: if you have downloaded oa_gateway, you can find inside 4 skyboxes, 1 is with static clouds (city-arena) and the other 3 are with moving clouds. Try with one of them.
Lookout at the shaders, give at the skybox the appropriate light value. Or make some try.

Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1037 on: September 13, 2013, 09:25:08 am »

Thanks for that chaulk/bevel explanation, i will try it in a moment.

@PPS:

This is why i use botclip:

Quote
calculating clusters...
    29 forced portal areas
    13 possible portal areas
    26 removed portal areas
    17 portals created
     7 clusters created
cluster 1 has 68 reachability areas
cluster 2 has 3 reachability areas
cluster 3 has 111 reachability areas
cluster 4 has 5 reachability areas
cluster 5 has 101 reachability areas
cluster 6 has 39 reachability areas
   327 total reachability areas
102780 AAS memory/CPU usage (the lower the better)

The curved area's generate lots of reachability area's and that makes for large slowdown in the gameplay with bots known as botstutter. I asure you the bots can go whereever they need to go.

My source, i just googled some keywords that remembered, might have been this site:
http://linradiant.intron-trans.hu/docs/Bot%20Optimization%20Guide.html


udestruction:
I've play-tested your map and found it to be a lot of fun. I've played against nightmare bots, which are notoriously inclined to using the rail, but found the railgun to be not overpowering in this environment (then again i play a mod where the rail only does 85 damage points, instead of 100...). So please don't change much in the layout!

If i had to name some flaw, some places are really 'weak' from a strategic point of view, like the 'garden' in which you are on the ground and out in the open without cover which is not compensated by strong items; but that makes the gameplay slightly more strategic, so you probably shouldn't that either.

I suppose it could have nicer textures (same can be said for my own dm2 and dm3); that said, i made something for you: see attachment.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 11:03:56 am by jangroothuijse » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #1038 on: September 14, 2013, 04:42:12 am »

About botclip walls, okay... but however, in the yellow wall in the fourth screenshot, it's clear enough that a passage is missing (on the left of the screen, behind that spawn point and those two ammo boxes)... isn't it?

About that stones.jpg image from yours (thank you), you have to clearly state you release it under GPLv2 and/or PD.... this would allow other people to use it to create textures to be used in OA. Smiley

About the "garden" part of my map ("ruined house"), I think it should however give a small degree of protection against some kinds of weapons, if your enemy is at ground level, too... but I purposely kept this protection low. Initially, I designed those walls higher... but thinking that "mapping information for special gametypes" wiki page says that "hiding places should be avoided" in Elimination maps, then I lowered those walls....
Well, if your opponent is placed higher than you, it does not provide great protection, I admit.... but I hope it's not a major issue.

And however, although there is not a lot of interesting stuff there in FFA mode (apart a lightning gun and a rare railgun ammo box), consider that in ctf, oneflag, DD and Domination mode, there are gametype objectives there, so in those gametypes you have reasons to go there...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 04:58:32 am by Gig » Logged

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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1039 on: September 14, 2013, 12:59:55 pm »

About botclip walls, okay... but however, in the yellow wall in the fourth screenshot, it's clear enough that a passage is missing (on the left of the screen, behind that spawn point and those two ammo boxes)... isn't it?

Missing is such a strong word; i haven't missed it in actual gameplay; i'm not sure if they would take the jump, i suppose it would add another ledge for them to go down...but they already have a way down.

Jan... I try to explain how I think "caulk" should be used behind your curves, if I correctly understood how to use it..
[....]

Thanks, i think i get it now, my newest version of dm3 no longer has flickering bevels.

Quote
PS: A think I noticed while taking a look to your map:
"Scripts/miramar.shader" file includes "textures/miramar/miramar" shader, which mentions "textures/miramar/miramar.tga"... but I'm not able to find that file...

Unfortunatly my NetRadiant didn't seem to load external script files, or any script files that wherent already loaded, instead of trying to fix this problem i always edit the bottom part skies.shader......so the shader files used in gameplay aren't the shader files used when editing. There is no miramar.tga..

This is what is says in skies.shader:
Quote
textures/miramar/miramar
{
   qer_editorimage textures/miramar/miramar_bk.tga //path of the image that shows up in Radiant
   //skyparms textures/miramar/miramar 1024 //farbox cloudheight nearbox
   //q3map_sunExt 1 0.86 0.67 350 -102 40 2 16 //red green blue intensity degrees elevation deviance samples
   //q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 160 //self other
//   q3map_skyLight 250 6 //amount iterations
//   q3map_lightSubdivide 32
//   q3map_lightRGB 1.0 1.0 0.9
   surfaceparm     sky //tells the game it's a sky
   surfaceparm     noimpact //no projectiles impact here
   surfaceparm     nolightmap //no shadows on this surface
   surfaceparm     nomarks //no burn marks
 }

Hi Jan, thank you for the update.  Smiley

About the shader refactoring.. perhaps that can wait untill a conflict arises, or this packs gets integrated in something...?
When a conflict arises, that may already be too late for a simple and rapid fix. I would suggest, at least, to do not use /common folder for OACMP textures or shaders (IMHO, best thing would be doing like I did, however avoiding to place custom things under /common folder may already be something good).
Complete texture renaming is not so hard as it sounds, thanks to Radiant "Find/Replace" texture tool (otherwhise, one may also use a plain text editor).
This packs aims to be as popular as possible: although these maps will probably not be part of OA official releases, we hope they would work flawlessy on both OA 0.8.x and on the future OA3 reboot...

This version fixes that, no more shaders or textures added to common:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/zzzz_oajgdm1_2_3.pk3
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pelya
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« Reply #1040 on: September 14, 2013, 01:15:20 pm »

Maybe it's the time to assemble an OACMP release candidate. What do you think?
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #1041 on: September 14, 2013, 01:25:28 pm »

Maybe it's the time to assemble an OACMP release candidate. What do you think?

Yup, i've just read this thread back to the release of beta3...it seems most issues that where reported have been handled...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1042 on: September 14, 2013, 01:27:07 pm »

Once Gig releases v13 (and perhaps wait for Moixie?), I'll pack RC1.
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« Reply #1043 on: September 15, 2013, 03:48:52 am »

Missing is such a strong word; i haven't missed it in actual gameplay; i'm not sure if they would take the jump, i suppose it would add another ledge for them to go down...but they already have a way down.
I cannot do tests today... however, also if in the place of the screenshot there is a jump that maybe they would not do (we should order them to "follow us" and test if they follow us in that jump).... on the opposite end of that platform? I'm writing from cell phone, I can't capture screenshots now.

Quote
Unfortunatly my NetRadiant didn't seem to load external script files, or any script files that wherent already loaded, instead of trying to fix this problem i always edit the bottom part skies.shader......so the shader files used in gameplay aren't the shader files used when editing. There is no miramar.tga..
Uhm... even if in your editor, your shaders are placed in a different .shader file than the one you give in the package, the shaders themselves should be exactly the same (you may need to copy all your custom shaders from skies.shader to janshaders1.shader or something similar).
About extra shader files not working in your netradiant... are you sure they are correctly listed in your baseoa/scripts/shaderlist.txt file? That file is a list of .shader files that the editor has to load (one shaderfile per line, without extension).

Quote
This version fixes that, no more shaders or textures added to common:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/zzzz_oajgdm1_2_3.pk3
I'll try it tomorrow. Smiley

@All - If we are going to make a RC, we need Moixie updates first... then we should begin naming the maps with their official names, and writing down some map rotation scripts for them? Some map related "readme" files should be updated. And for the names... what about "trimming" their numbers, or using three digits instead of 2 (oacmpdm2 or oacmpdm002 instead of oacmpdm02)?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:51:21 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1044 on: September 15, 2013, 04:32:16 am »

The official names will be applied once the pack is finished for release, not before. Once we decide it's ready for release, they'll contain their definitive names.
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« Reply #1045 on: September 15, 2013, 04:40:06 am »

my update should be available tonight.
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Gig
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« Reply #1046 on: September 15, 2013, 05:35:10 am »

The official names will be applied once the pack is finished for release, not before. Once we decide it's ready for release, they'll contain their definitive names.
Then, this one should be named Beta4, you mean?
I'm not a real software developer, but I think that a "RC" should be as similar as possible to the final version: in an ideal condition, the only change between the RC and the real release would be removing the "RC" references... isn't it?
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« Reply #1047 on: September 15, 2013, 05:42:03 am »

Not so much, remember OA 0.8.8 RCs. Between RC1 and RC6 there were plenty of changes. They're still test releases.
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« Reply #1048 on: September 15, 2013, 06:51:48 am »

Not so much, remember OA 0.8.8 RCs. Between RC1 and RC6 there were plenty of changes. They're still test releases.
Well, that was not an ideal thing (more betas and less RCs may have been better?)... and it ended with the final package with wrong file permissions for OSX...

However, at least one test version with definitve paths/names would be required, before the official release, IMHO.
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« Reply #1049 on: September 15, 2013, 06:53:55 am »

Yep, and then the servers may pick the beta version with mistakes but the correct names while the correct version has those mistakes fixed and the correct names.
No, Gig, the final names will be placed in the final release.
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