Poll
Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 411896 times)
Akom74
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« Reply #575 on: March 26, 2013, 02:57:46 pm »

Akom, we're on the polishing phase, we already have enough maps for the first volume.
Once Volume 1 is released, we may focus on creating more maps for Volume 2.

Ok, sorry.  Tongue Tongue

But in volume 1 there are only 3 CTF maps, i've thinked to build another one.....
....but no problem  Tongue Grin

 Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #576 on: March 26, 2013, 03:10:41 pm »

Your map looks very promising. Hold it until we start on Vol. II. (Or keep on working on it, and when the time for Vol 2 is in, you might post it Tongue)
Right now we're going to polish what we have.
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Gig
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« Reply #577 on: March 27, 2013, 01:31:10 am »

I have no idea which point of view Elimination and CTF Elimination modes use just after map loading (Sago, any hints?). I think it's not the info_player_intermission....  Huh
I am afraid that is a bug in Elimination. I do know about it but have not yet found a not-ugly solution to the problem that did not create even bigger problems. The start location is in (0,0,0) and if that is inside a wall then you start inside a wall until you spawn. This happens because the spawn routine is disabled until the warm-up time begins and therefore no spawn point is selected.
That initially sounds not a great problem... so I wrote a note about it here (saying that 0,0,0 should not be in external void or in walls, and that should have enough free space for a player around it).
But after adding an entry for it here, I noticed a previously reported bug, that may be related to this one, but sounds more serious.. because the problem affects the "inactive warmup time" (that may be higher than the default), and is about players spawning dead...
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4452.msg43480#msg43480
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 03:37:31 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #578 on: March 27, 2013, 04:11:47 am »

Hi!
Here it is, attached you can find UDESTRUCTION Version5.

It is based upon V4 (Hey! V4 has been downloaded only once!  Embarrassed I need your feedback about it! Where are you, guys?), and has got these few changes:
- used "func_static" with "gametype" key to remove the "dark tiles" brushes (they are just thin "decorative" brushes, thus I suppose they should not be a problem for bots) that are under the A and B points (or under the flags), if you are not playing DD or CTF (or CTF Elimination) modes.
- added a rocket ammo in the warehouse.

Please pay attention here:
- I digged a "hole" under the scaffholding (may resemble some kind of tomb maybe? I don't know.) to try avoiding the "Elimination/CTF Elimination" initial spawn bug (and I placed a small health bonus there... you can see it only if you don't play in Elimination, of course). Well, this works only partially: after making enough room for a player around 0,0,0 coordinates, now I can move around during that "inactive warmup" time (while before I was only able to look around)... but I still spawn spectating, because I still spawn "died" (like also other characters do, during the inactive warmup).

NOTE: Instead of digging a hole, I may have moved the whole map structure to have some space around 0 0 0, but I didn't to that because in the previous days I noticed that if I move the whole map structure in Q3Radiant, then while running BSPC I got some "invalid bevel" errors. Maybe GTK Radiant or NetRadiant do not have this problem, I don't know. Anyway, I decided to try digging a hole.
What do you think about that hole? Should I keep it? Should I remove it? Do you think it may be (ab)used as a "foxhole" for unfair camping? I think I could keep it (it makes the ground of the map a little less "plain", and I have noticed no problems while playing with bots), but I prefer to hear your opinions.

PS: I really hope that in future Sago may find a way to fix that bug...

----------------
@Jan: Where are you? We need your help to fix your maps...

@Akom: If you don't know what to do while waiting... you may add some "eye candy" to your OACMP1 maps, or add support for DOM and DD (Moixie, you could do the same), or help testing in the various gametypes, searching for problems also in other people's maps.

----------------
PS: Due to Real Life, I think that in the next days I will probably have very very little time for mapping.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 06:25:00 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #579 on: March 27, 2013, 10:46:08 am »

@Akom: If you don't know what to do while waiting... you may add some "eye candy" to your OACMP1 maps, or add support for DOM and DD (Moixie, you could do the same), or help testing in the various gametypes, searching for problems also in other people's maps.

I'm doing a little work of fix some issues with the skybox on the oa_akomdm3 and reorganizing the textures/shaders to avoid some conflict.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #580 on: March 27, 2013, 11:28:52 am »

By the way, a very very little thing I noticed with oa_akomctf1: take a look to the ammo boxes on the top of the two towers: their positions are inverted... I don't know if that is intentional or not. Not that this makes a big difference, anyway I noticed it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:34:09 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #581 on: March 27, 2013, 11:44:52 am »

By the way, a very very little thing I noticed with oa_akomctf1: take a look the the ammo boxes on the top of the two towers: their positions are inverted... I don't know if that is intentional or not. Not that this makes a big difference, anyway I noticed it.

I've fixed this "issue" and fix some lights on the BFG floor. I've noticed that the skybox give too much light and i will decrease it.

By the way there is an error in oa_akomdm5 too and i have to fix (and recompile) it.

Wink
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pelya
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« Reply #582 on: March 29, 2013, 05:27:32 pm »

oa_akomctf1: teleporters are still marked with numbers instead of the weapon icons. Also, when you touch the teleporter from the side, you do not teleport, you need to stand in front of it. They may be designed that way, but it's still not comfortable to always remember to do extra running around teleporter, I would like the trigger area bigger, so you teleport when you touch it from this angle:


udestructionV5: an interesting map, but it has a lot of issues.
I would not call it an archeological site, because archeologists would never dig up such huge amount of soil that was in place of outer map walls. They are mostly digging by hand, to not cause any damage. Abandoned bombed city would be more logical theme here.
The railgun on this map is way overpowered, grab it and you're the king. It should be removed, if you don't want to redo the whole map layout.
Also, the map gives you a lot of spots for camping.
You can place kills across half of the map, while being covered from enemy rockets in your comfy jacuzzi:


Camp in the corner, place shots across half of the level, hide from plasma shots behind that stone blocks:



Camp in the building with rocket, blow up everyone who tries to grab it:


Minor camping spots, in buildings with only two/three doors:



Another minor thing - to reach megahealth, you need to jump on those three platforms, and you need not to press any movement buttons, or you'll miss the next platform. This goes against my instinct to always keep running, I would rather like those platforms on bigger distance between each other, so you need to go on the first platform and keep pressing forward to reach the next one.


Also, maps with many interconnected floors have poor gameplay on cellphone, but it's not that important for PC.
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Akom74
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« Reply #583 on: March 30, 2013, 06:10:41 am »

oa_akomctf1: teleporters are still marked with numbers instead of the weapon icons. Also, when you touch the teleporter from the side, you do not teleport, you need to stand in front of it. They may be designed that way, but it's still not comfortable to always remember to do extra running around teleporter, I would like the trigger area bigger, so you teleport when you touch it from this angle:


I will modify the angle of the trigger_teleport.
The numbers will remain.

Actually i'm fixing and organizing a lot of textures/shader for the official release.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #584 on: March 30, 2013, 08:47:01 am »

First of all, I have to specify that the map has not been intended for use with cellphone. It has been intended for being primarily used in Elimination/LMS mode, going everywhere with rocket jumps. In Elimination/LMS, weapon load depends from server admin. However, I had to support FFA mode, of course, and item placement can be adjusted.

1) In the very first weapons placement of the map (I added items only after map structure was almost complete), I placed the railgun in the jail (the smallest building), and I saw that it was used way too much.
So I moved it to a less comfortable place, on the aqueduct, thus giving bots a reason to go up there, and keeping them to not use it too much (before that, I tried to place the railgun on the colums of the "hall of columns", but for some reason bots do not work so much there and almost never took it, so I moved it to the aqueduct).
At the current moment, it seems to me that bots do not abuse railgun (they seem to prefer the plasmagun). Do you think human players would go very much more for it? I don't know how human players would play: I think we really should make a (private) server running OACMP beta and test maps online with other players: bot tests are not enough! (Who could host a temporary server? That would be very useful.) Bots do not tend to stay there for long (I did not place info_camp entities on the aqueduct), but also from your screenshot, it looks half character is exposed to enemy fire when he's in the water, it doesn't look an excellent shield... when you are on the aqueduct, your position is quite easily visible (from higher tower top, from warehouse top, from scaffholding top), isn't it? When I made the aqueduct less deep, bots for some unknown reason had problems getting out if it, so I had to restore the previous depth.
However, I could move the railgun again, and/or make it spawn less frequently (and place fewer ammo boxes for it). Maybe I could add more button-activated rooms like the one with the BFG, and move the railgun there (maybe I could add even a third one with the Invulnerability, and a fourth with something else?). It's just an idea, what do you think, guys?
(By the way, BFG current spawn time is 60 seconds, it that good? At the moment, all other weapons have the default spawn time -5 seconds, IIRC-)

2) About camping in the corner of the destroyed home: testing the map, I edited that garden's walls over and over, making them lower each time (in my first idea, those external were proper "walls"). At the current moment, I suppose you cannot stay there and rail someone and being sure noone will rail you: your head is visible (hence, a target) from the ground floor, and even more if the enemy is at an higher position. However, I could make that wall even a little lower, if you wish.

3) For the small building (jail) with rocket, I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades, if they discover you like to camp in there (also its rounded walls were designed to help this). Do you think that this may work with smart humans only, but bots would not be so smart? How would you modify that place? I thought a prison cell with four doors may have looked strange, so I did only two, but...
What would you think about a (relatively low) jump-pad to simply reach the top of jail, on its outside, to more easily shot at who tries to get the rocket/camp there? And it that case, should I place some kind of item on that roof? It's just an idea...

4) For the fact the higher tower has got less doors/windows than the lower tower, it was due to a (generic) try to help vis portals for game performances (by the way: helping vis portals is also the reason why the warehouse does not have one or two doors more). Do you think camping there is a problem? I had the impression that place isn't very "active", and that camping there could have been quite boring, and thus not very used... However, how do you suggest to change it? Should I open doors/windows? How many? Again, bots don't camp there due to there is no info_camp in that room, and I never played against human players in any OACMP map.

5) For the rocket launcher room in the middle floor of the house, there is no window on the wall that faces the temple again for vis portals reasons, and because of 5 entries to that room seem enough to me (two from the roof, one from the lower floor, one from the roof of the cistern (through the small window) and one from the other window. Of course you can notice that woody box under the stairs is there to prevent you from camping under the stairs, and that, if you stay in the place you are in your screenshot, you can be easily hit by someone on the roof above you (with a rocket), or be wiped out by someone on the aqueduct (in the area between the tower, the warehouse and the cistern) with well, any weapon. However, I could make the two windows in that room a little larger, if you wish.

6) About the three jumps to get the megahealth, at the moment bots work well with it (although they are not so smart to get on the top of the temple or of the warehouse like human players can do from there), and I have fear to do changes to it (maybe I could make the "item_botroam" entities there have even lower "weight", if they use that part too much, what do you think?)...

However, I really think we should test these maps online with real opponents to really find out good things and bad things about actual gameplay in them.

About the "archeological or not" ambientation... the name of the map "Under Destruction" is quite open to any personal interpretation. Each one can consider it what he prefers, I think.  Smiley Smiley Smiley Isn't so? What's the original use of WRACKDM17, OADJDM2 or AM_GALMEVISH, before being used for deathmatches? Who knows, but who cares!  Smiley Am I wrong?
In the optic of choosing the definitive textures, instead... I don't yet know what I will do... I have yet do dig within OA texture sets.

PS: Thank you for your feedback.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 09:40:59 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
pelya
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« Reply #585 on: March 30, 2013, 09:41:25 am »

First of all, I have to specify that the map has not been intended for use with cellphone. It has been intended for being primarily used in Elimination/LMS mode, going everywhere with rocket jumps.
You cannot please everyone, so don't mind that. You map still plays much better on the phone than many other OA stock maps with narrow tunnels.
If you play Elimination, the map layout works much better, because everyone has railgun, and camp spots won't give you any advantage.

Quote
Maybe I could add more button-activated rooms like the one with the BFG, and move the railgun there
After you told that, I've spent 5 minutes searching for that button, I've thrown grenades in the windows of that building with BFG, I've tried to rocketjump and shoot there, I've jumped on all the nearby stones, and finally found the button in the aqueduct, I actually stumbled on it before, but I though that was a decoration of faucet to fill that aqueduct with water.

Quote
However, I could move the railgun again, and/or make it spawn less frequently
Swap the locations of BFG and railgun, I think that would be fair, or maybe place BFG in the air instead of megahealth.

Quote
However, I could make that wall even a little lower, if you wish
It's okay as it is, if you play Elimination or hide the railgun in that closed building.

Quote
For the building with rocket (jail), I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades
The nearest grenade launcher is at the roof of another building. I suggest putting another grenade launcher somewhere on the ground, near rocket launcher.

Quote
I had the impression that place isn't very "active", and that camping there could have been quite boring, and thus not very used
There will be no camping in Elimination, so leave it like it is. Even in FFA it's not very good camp spot (aqueduct is much better). The other camp spot is also minor, leave it as it is.

I'll try to set up a test OACMP server, I have some spare hardware.
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Gig
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« Reply #586 on: March 30, 2013, 10:10:45 am »

Quote
For the building with rocket (jail), I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades
The nearest grenade launcher is at the roof of another building. I suggest putting another grenade launcher somewhere on the ground, near rocket launcher.
At the beginning, when I placed the railgun in the jail, the grenade launcher was in the place where now there is the railgun (on the aqueduct). This allowed for trowing grenades in the grates on jail's roof.
Unfortunately, at that time there were too many players with the railgun, so I moved it to a less crowded place (but not so good for camping as the top of the warehouse would have been), so (after the try in the hall of pillars I mentioned in the previous post) I opted for the aqueduct, and I moved that grenade launcher to somewhere else to make room for the railgun. Of course we can place it elsewhere.

PS: the real reason the BFG building has got those little windows is to give an explaination of why it is not completely dark inside when the door is closed.  Smiley Should I modify something there?

@All: I don't know if I should keep the current "short name" for the map (UDESTRUCTION, that quickly associates to the longname "Under Destruction") or choose something that reminds Elimination mode (e.g. GIGELIMINATION1, GIGELIM1, GIG_ELIM1, GIG_CA1...).... What do you think about it, guys?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 11:15:43 am by Gig » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #587 on: March 30, 2013, 10:24:19 am »

it would be cool to open the door by throwing a grenade in the window. Is it complicated to make that trigger inside the building to also react to explosions?

I think "gig1elimination" would be a nice name, and it fits 15-char limit on map name.
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Gig
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« Reply #588 on: March 30, 2013, 11:00:22 am »

it would be cool to open the door by throwing a grenade in the window. Is it complicated to make that trigger inside the building to also react to explosions?
I don't know if it is possible to make the same trigger react to both touch and damage (maybe Akom knows), but I think it should be possible at least to make another trigger, that would react to damage.

However, I don't know if I want that door to open this way. Undecided
If you open the door from distance (with the button on the aqueduct), you accept the risk that someone else may grab the big gun before you do... but if you are next to the building, maybe grabbing it becomes too easy (on the other hand, it's also true that you would first need to have a grenade launcher as pre-requisite...). I don't know.  Undecided
And I don't know the look to give to that new trigger... 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 11:14:12 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #589 on: March 30, 2013, 11:21:50 am »

@GiG: (1) To make the door open with a granade you have to set the "health" key in the entity menu'.
(2) In your map there are the blue and red flags, you mean to make your map playable in team OA gamemodes such as CTF-Elimination DD and Domination ? This is cool if you do it.

The server idea it's a good idea but we came from different country with different time zone....
....and of course, we need to have the same version of OA with the official pack, not alpha versione 1 2 3 and more.



Update:
Some shaders give me errors, i have changed some textures directory and maybe i forgot something.....
....when i finish to fix this issue i can take more time to edit the maps.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #590 on: March 30, 2013, 11:30:50 am »

@GiG: (1) To make the door open with a granade you have to set the "health" key in the entity menu'.
(2) In your map there are the blue and red flags, you mean to make your map playable in team OA gamemodes such as CTF-Elimination DD and Domination ? This is cool if you do it.

The map is already playable in DD mode (some feedback would be welcome), I think it is listed in .arena for that.

Technically, CTF-Elimination is already possible just like CTF, because I created the flags with the "gametype/ctf, dd" key, but as I told some days ago, I did not list them in the .arena, because of the map is not symmetrical and it does not have "team" spawn points, so the gameplay would be a little "strange". Do you think I should?  Huh

I plan to add Domination support, when I will finally decide to switch to NetRadiant, add TA weapons and change some textures.  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 11:37:58 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #591 on: March 30, 2013, 11:45:33 am »

I've tested udestruction in DD mode, and it works fine, aside from the fact that I've searched for locations of nodes a bit too long (I thought they are on the roofs, but one of them is inside the building, and another is on the ground). The ground node may be a bit too easy to defend, because there is a lightning gun right near it, and plasma nearby. Inside the buildings you only got the option of a shotgun, there are rockets nearby, but you need to run away from node to grab them.
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« Reply #592 on: March 30, 2013, 03:59:34 pm »

Good evening !
Here is the new mxdm5 version ! (in attachment)



Actually, the map could only be played on FFA, TDM and Tourney, now, I changed it so much that it is playable in any gametype. (yeah, I made a ctf version with special things which only appear on team gametypes, as shown on the picture).
Then, there are no target_locations (but it should not so important, the map is so small that it's not so hard to know where are others), and the central door texture didn't change (I couldn't find better =/). However, it seems that the map has a good gameplay in any gametype.



In the actual map pack version, some levelshots (Jan's ? Do not remember) are really heavy (?), from 100kB to 400kB whereas others are around 50/100 kB. Should we change them ?

I had another question. It would be really useful to test our map online with real people. Many mistakes can't be found because bots aren't as stupid as a human player can be. Then, their ideas could be interesting, so here is what I wanted to ask, is there any project of testing maps before the final reach date ? This would help us for polishing maps and this would also be a good way to promote the mappack.



Ps: on the domination gametype, take the jumps to open the door under the domination point. It's fun. I already fixed it, it'll work well on the next version.

Pps: I thought that I fixed the problem but in fact it doesn't work as good as I thought. It seems like we can't put a domination point on a func_door, if anyone has a solution...
I fixed the grenade and the flags in dd. grenade launchers appeared whereas they shouldn't, B point didn't appear where it should.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 06:47:47 am by Moixie » Logged
pelya
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« Reply #593 on: March 30, 2013, 05:06:23 pm »

I've set up a dedicated server, which hosts beta2 of OACMP, and latest versions of udestruction and mxdm5 maps, you can vote to change map/gametype etc. It's called "OA Community Map Pack Beta2". It has two bots, as usual.

@Neon_Knight: the first post contains symlink to beta1 instead of beta2. Also, your file hosting kinda sucks, I'm getting some 30-50Kb download speed. I can put it to my sourceforge.net directory, and there are a lot of other file hosting options for open-source stuff.

BTW, I've heard that some players hate bots, but as I've understood, it's mainly because you cannot tell from serverlist if the server has humans or only bots. So, what if servers would only show amount of human players in the server list, ignoring the bots? It seems fairly easy to fix, of course not everyone will update their dedicated server, but it will improve things on the long run.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:06:24 am by pelya » Logged
Moixie
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« Reply #594 on: March 30, 2013, 05:24:27 pm »

So, what if servers would only show amount of human players in the server list, ignoring the bots? It seems fairly easy to fix, of course not everyone will update their dedicated server, but it will improve things on the long run.

It already exists. Since 0.8.5 (?), you can set the parameter "only humans" (from the Oa serverlist) so you can only see the amount of human players on servers and ignore bots.

Ps: 100 posts !!! I made it !
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Akom74
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« Reply #595 on: March 31, 2013, 12:36:02 am »

I had another question. It would be really useful to test our map online with real people. Many mistakes can't be found because bots aren't as stupid as a human player can be. Then, their ideas could be interesting, so here is what I wanted to ask, is there any project of testing maps before the final reach date ? This would help us for polishing maps and this would also be a good way to promote the mappack.

I agree with that. We must try this pack online, every mapper know his own map as his hands, but another player could see something that the original mapper dont see.
Playing with bots is not the best way to try map's features, yes it's useful for offline play but when the mappack will be released, the community will give us plenty of comments and i hope they will be positives........ Tongue

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« Reply #596 on: March 31, 2013, 09:44:42 am »

For the test server: I will not be able to try it before Tuesday, however I think that it should be private. And maybe one may use a fake mod folder, to avoid problems?

Then, we should try to organize a time to play together.
How many different timezones are involved? Me and Akom are from Italy (GMT+1? We switched to Summer time today.). Maybe the old (and not so successful) "Swatch internet time" may help?

______
About udestruction in DD mode: it's also the impression I had: one base is easier to attack, the other one easier to defend. Do you think this may work well anyway, considering one has to keep both bases at the same time?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 09:48:07 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #597 on: March 31, 2013, 12:55:33 pm »

For the test server: I will not be able to try it before Tuesday, however I think that it should be private. And maybe one may use a fake mod folder, to avoid problems?

Then, we should try to organize a time to play together.
How many different timezones are involved? Me and Akom are from Italy (GMT+1? We switched to Summer time today.). Maybe the old (and not so successful) "Swatch internet time" may help?

Today i have play with bot two times with 120/130 ping. With humans it will be better, like said before.

Wink
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...sorry for my English, i'm Italian... Tongue



Moixie
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« Reply #598 on: March 31, 2013, 04:50:52 pm »

I am from france (GMT+1 too).
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Akom74
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Cakes 9
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« Reply #599 on: April 01, 2013, 06:11:27 am »


This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server. Cheesy

Wink
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:13:12 am by Akom74 » Logged

...sorry for my English, i'm Italian... Tongue



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