[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[Neon_Knight]

This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server.

Here it will be 16:00 (4:00 PM GMT -3), and I won't be available in that time. I'm sorry. :/

[Akom74]

This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server.

Here it will be 16:00 (4:00 PM GMT -3), and I won't be available in that time. I'm sorry. :/

Maybe another time, ...or tomorrow ? Tell us the time you are more "comfortable" (it's that right?? ).

[Neon_Knight]

Don't worry about me. Today since that hour I will be absent from my house.

[Akom74]

Ok, i have try to recruit you

By the way i will take some screenshots of the event



EDIT: I've found a probably bug in GiG map in Elimination mode, it give me (only(?)) an error.
This is the error: inline model - bad number

Why ??

[Gig]

I've never noticed that error. When does it happen? At map launch? After? With how many bots?
Does it happen only when playing online or also offline?

[Gig]

I just tried it, I have to thank Pelya for the test server.

But:
- The server is not password protected
- The server has autodownload enabled
- The maps are placed in "baseoa" instead of in a fake-mod folder (e.g. OACMPbeta2)
Hence, anyone may connect to the server and play (and this may be good, giving us more chances to find someone to play with), but then he will autodownload incomplete versions of the maps, and find them in their baseoa. This may cause problems, someone may place them in other servers, etc.
I really suggest to use a fake-mod folder on the server, to be easily deleted when it will not be required anymore, and to do not place unfinished maps in normal users baseoa folder.

PS: I may be online in the next few hours... write here if you are around, and I will join the server if I can.

PPS: If someone has got some infos about the error Akom found, that would be appreciated.

[Gig]

Guys, I need help!

I just opened my map with NetRadiant 1.5 instead of with Q3Radiant as usual, wishing to add TA stuff to it.

1) But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?

2) Another thing I find problematic is the fact that special brushes as "hint" and "trigger" are not semi-transparent like they look in Q3Radiant.

Thank you in advance.

P.S.: I downloaded NetRadiant 1.5 (with OA support included) from the first post of this thread.
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0
3) It does not seem to contain bspc.exe. Should I continue use the one that I had with Q3Radiant, or is there an updated version somewhere?

4) P.P.S.: More, it fails to load various textures (e.g. those of the medkit). Why does?

[sago007]

But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?

You don't need to align every item perfectly. Unless the "SUSPENDED"-flag is set then the item will drop to the ground automatically. This does not include spawn locations and the obelisks are buggy as you know (only the graphical representation falls to the ground).

[Gig]

But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?

You don't need to align every item perfectly. Unless the "SUSPENDED"-flag is set then the item will drop to the ground automatically. This does not include spawn locations and the obelisks are buggy as you know (only the graphical representation falls to the ground).

You're right... but it does not seem very "professional".
IIRC, if you place an item in the air without the "suspendend" flag, it will be dropped to the ground at its first spawning, and I'm unsure but maybe you may actually see it falling.
IIRC, this happens only at the first spawn, while at later spawns, it already appears on the ground (in my first test map, I made a button to "release" a powerup that was placed high, making it fall down -by removing a "cage" I placed around it- and thus allowing you to grab it... but the next time, it spawned already on the ground... so I abandoned that idea).

Does also GTKRadiant show items in the same way as NetRadiant?

PS: I'm compiling the map with the option that mentions "simulate old style -light -extra"... is that the one I should use? It looks like compiling here takes much longer than with the old program...  

[Gig]

Another question. I'm trying to use the "better aligned models" for the obelisks.

Recap:
While the neutral obelisk (skull generator/optional white flag base) model seems correctly aligned since the beginning (its "origin" is at its bottom - maybe just a very very little too high, like one unit), the red and blue obelisks are clearly misaligned (their "origins" are at their top). If one does not correctly make the "origin" point touch the ground, bots will not correctly work in Overload mode, attacking the wrong player.
More infos:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Overload
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3051.0

So, I download the z_alignedmodels.pk3 file from that thread and I placed it into my baseoa folder. Then I launched NetRadiant, and tried to add a red or blue obelisk again: they (well, the "bases") still look with the "misaligned" model. What am I missing/doing wrong?
I don't know it this may be somehow related to the fact that NetRadiant does not load some textures (e.g. ammo boxes), I don't know why. Ideas?

[Gig]

Hi guys! How do you do?

Under Destruction V6 is attached to this post.
It's a major update, although map layout is mostly the same.

I try to write a changelog against the previous V5:
- Against camping, enlarged a little the windows on the middle floor of the house, and enlarged the doors on the ground floor of the higher tower.
- Against camping, made a grating in a wall of the jail: you can now look (and shoot) in.
- Against camping, lowered a little that wall Pelya mentioned (on the rear of the lightning gun area -ruined house-).
- Added a second "big door" like the one with the BFG, this one containing the Invulnerability instead. Made activating buttons a little more noticeable. I'm unsure if I should keep those buttons there, or move them to help bots (where?).
- To prevent hiding from the battle like a coward, in Elimination mode the two big doors (as well as their activating buttons) are REMOVED (they are there in all other gametypes, instead). Only the proper "doors", not the entire structures.
- Added a jump-pad to easily reach the aqueduct, and moved a grenade launcher near it.
- Added a small ramp that links the aqueduct to the top of the hall of pillars.
- Added one more Rocket Launcher (as Akom suggested once), on the top of the hall of pillars.
- Added the three TA weapons (prox launcher, chaingun, nailgun).
- Added Domination support (5 domination points)
- Added One Flag CTF support. It sounds strange, but it's funny! Try it! Of course, captures are really fast (reminder: the map does not have team spawn points, hence "bases" are just an idea; however, they are in the same place of the DD points). Do you think that I correcly placed the white flag more or less at the same distance from both flags? Or should I move it?
- Additional gametypes added to the .arena file.
- If you set g_runes 1 (and restart the map, it's set to 0 by default), you will find the TA runes! There are only four of them, one per kind, and they are NOT team-specific.

Spawn times are:
- TA weapons: 30 seconds
- Railgun: 45 seconds (and now there are only two ammo boxes for it)
- BFG: 60 seconds
- Invulnerability: 60 seconds
- All other weapons: default time (controlled by g_weaponTeamrespawn variable -default 30- for TDM mode and g_weaponrespawn variable -default 5- for other gametypes. I never really understood why ID Software chose so different values... I can only imagine to make things harder, and to force different players to use different weapons in TDM mode).
- Portable medkit, Ammo boxes and Powerups (haste, environment suit): default times

What do you think about these respawn times?

Could you please test the map in various gametypes and tell me about bugs or your opinions?

- I'm waiting for help with the things I mentioned in the posts above, to add Harvester and Overload support.

[pelya]

I really suggest to use a fake-mod folder on the server, to be easily deleted when it will not be required anymore, and to do not place unfinished maps in normal users baseoa folder

Did that, also updated udestruction on server.

[Gig]

@Pelya: Thank you! If you wish, I suppose you could even make bots a little harder -from 2.0 to 3.0?- by tweaking g_spskill variable (that affects bots added after you change the variable).

@Moixie: I've tested MX1DM5_T1 (do not confuse with mx1dm5, which is a previous version) on the server, in various gametypes. Nice, but:
- Especially when playing online, there is the risk that, after passing through the "floor door", you may fall back before it closes. Maybe you could try to push the player higher, to give him some more time before returning to the ground (a little more time for the hatch to close).
- In objective-based gametypes, where the objectives are at the upper floor, it is more clear the problem that bots are not comfortable with using the jump-pads to get to the upper floor... they do not seem very interested into reaching the flags!
- In Double Domination, where is point "B"?

[Akom74]

I'm little busy to rebuild some maps, cause the scripts call different textures folder now.
I have started two new maps for the other Beta, but now i'm stopped to solve some issues for scripts/textures.

[pelya]

I've tried the new udestruction map in FFA mode.
The jump pad near railgun makes gameplay much more fair, you cannot grab it and safely camp in the aqueduct, also it makes learning the level faster, because you don't need to walk around half of the level to get to the railgun (or maybe I suck at rocket jumps). The ramp is also a welcome addition.
The window in the building with a rocket launcher eliminates the camping spot.
I don't understand why did you put an invulnerability behind the closed door, if there's much more powerful battle suit powerup in the open area, above the plasmagun. With invulnerability you cannot move, and it lasts for only 6 railgun shots. I suggest removing invulnerability altogether, and placing battle suit instead of it in the secret room.
The TA weapons are nice addition, especially nailgun - it's powerful, but flying so slowly that it becomes almost useless at the big distances of the level, so it's okay to put it right in the center of the level.
The chaingun however is powerful, and it also has limited use for sniping, because it's instahit weapon, so I would put it somewhere on the rooftop, or in place of the battle suit, to compensate railgun at the other side of the level.
And I would remove proximity mine launcher altogether, because there are lot of tight places where you can place mines and gain cheap frags, the room with rocket launcher for example, or entries to the building.

[Moixie]

- Especially when playing online, there is the risk that, after passing through the "floor door", you may fall back before it closes. Maybe you could try to push the player higher, to give him some more time before returning to the ground (a little more time for the hatch to close).

When I made the door, I tried to make it close exactly when the player touches the ground. But online, it seems like there is a litlle delay and it doesn't work anymore. I reduced the time needed to close and made the player jump a bit quicker.

- In objective-based gametypes, where the objectives are at the upper floor, it is more clear the problem that bots are not comfortable with using the jump-pads to get to the upper floor... they do not seem very interested into reaching the flags!

I hate bots. I don't know how to do. Actually, you an reach the jumpads without jumping, so I thought they would be able to take them but they can't. Do I have to add a certain entity ? Do I have to make the jump-pads nearer of the platforms ? Do I have to create a way between platforms and jumppads with botclip ? (they would fly, wouldn't they?)

- In Double Domination, where is point "B"?

I noticed and fixed it, it now works perfectly.

[Gig]

@Pelya:
Well, the aqueduct height was not intended to be directly reached with a single rocket jump, but to be almost aligned with the roof of the house of pillars and with the area between the lower tower, the warehouse and the cistern top. You can rocket-jump there with two rocket jumps (one to reach the top of the jail), and I don't exclude someone really good with rj may do it directly... however, now that there is that jump-pad, it should not be a problem anymore.

The reason I added Environment Suit to the map is to allow someone to make "free" rocketjumps also when not playing Elimination mode. When I placed it, I did not have placed flags in the map, so I'm not sure it's still the best place for it... for some time, I even thought about replacing the "haste" in the higher tower with a second "environment suit" to balance...

I placed the Invulnerability because of I had the impression too few maps have it, and I placed prox mines because they are the only counter-measure to invulnerability (and because I liked to do a map with all weapons available  ).
Initial load of mines is just 5, and there are only three ammo boxes for it (that give 10 ammo each), in different places of the arena. Considering I set that weapon to spawn every 30 seconds, I don't know how much it may be abused... bots do not seem to use it a lot, but again I'd like to know how human beings would play (I have not found other players on the server yet). In akom's CTF map, BFG and prox mines spawn (alternately) more often. However, I may remove one ammo box if you wish.

So, should I move some items? Should I remove the second "big door" and place the invulnerability there or somewhere else?
I was also thinking about moving the BFG button somewhere on the ground floor, e.g. on an (internal or external?) wall of the house of pillars... or should I leave it where it is?

@Moixie:

I hate bots. I don't know how to do. Actually, you an reach the jumpads without jumping, so I thought they would be able to take them but they can't. Do I have to add a certain entity ? Do I have to make the jump-pads nearer of the platforms ? Do I have to create a way between platforms and jumppads with botclip ? (they would fly, wouldn't they?)

Bots are quite a mystery to me. I've had to do many changes to my map, just allow them to work better. Sometimes, a small edit in one part of the map caused bots to do not work as before in a larger area. As I told some pages ago, once I tried to make a jump lower to help them, and for some reason they stopped doing it at all!

I opened your map in NetRadiant. I see that from the trigger_push, you point to a target_position (ok), but that target_position is also linked to a target_push. I don't understand what this exactly is. From its description, it seems something like a different way to make bounce pads (they say it's not client side predicted -whatever this means!- and mention trigger_multiple instead of trigger_push). I don't know what's this stuff for. In my map -just like Akom does, I opened oa_akomctf1 to check- I just link a trigger_push (starting from a "common/trigger" brush) to a target_position entity and nothing more. On the other hand, I compile with Q3MAP from Q3Radiant... when I compiled with Q3MAP2 from NetRadiant, then I saw strange warnings (something like "trigger_push start solid" or something similar, I don't remember exactly) when BSPC was creating the AAS file... due to this and other reasons, I returned compiling my map from the older program.

However, why I don't find item_botroam entities in your map? I had to place various of them in my map. They are very useful to make bots go where they don't seem interested to go. Remember to set the "weight" key (do some tests spectating one or more bots, to try to guess if you used too high or too low weights). IIRC, the Q3 Radiant .doc manual (or maybe I read that somewhere else?) says that if you flag them as "suspended" but they are placed too high mid-air, bots will try to touch them only if they are reachable using a jump-pad.

Just a note: it even exists info_camp entity to tell bots about places adapt to "camp" (looking around waiting for some opponent, when they get bored of roaming without findind someone), but probably your map does not require them.

@All: I still don't understand that team_blueobelisk and team_redobelisk thing. Opening oa_akomctf1 in NetRadiant, I see them with the "origin" touching the ground (correctly), and with the model that is completely buried in the ground. When playing in Overload mode, the model of the "base" is not visible (unless you use noclip or r_showtris after devmap), because it is drawn completely in the ground. But when playing in CTF, Oneflag or Harvester mode, the model of the "base" is drawn in the "right" place (where it should be if the model was correctly made). I really don't understand how to explain that. Could someone please tell me?

PS: I see 0.8.8 patch pk3 contains md3 models for them.... are those the same of z_alignedmodels.pk3, or other versions?

PPS: By the way, Akom, I noticed you did not place any item_botroam entity in oa_akomctf1, couldn't it be useful to have bots using lateral ways (around the buildings) a little more, maybe? just an idea...

[Akom74]

@All: I still don't understand that team_blueobelisk and team_redobelisk thing. Opening oa_akomctf1 in NetRadiant, I see them with the "origin" touching the ground (correctly), and with the model that is completely buried in the ground. When playing in Overload mode, the model of the "base" is not visible (unless you use noclip or r_showtris after devmap), because it is drawn completely in the ground. But when playing in CTF, Oneflag or Harvester mode, the model of the "base" is drawn in the "right" place (where it should be if the model was correctly made). I really don't understand how to explain that. Could someone please tell me?

Where is the problem ?? Just copy and paste them into your map, aligned as it is in my map. It will work perfectly 

PPS: By the way, Akom, I noticed you did not place any item_botroam entity in oa_akomctf1, couldn't it be useful to have bots using lateral ways (around the buildings) a little more, maybe? just an idea...

The botroam are not needed, depends from what bot you use, some bot roam normally and from the backdoor passage, but you have to think more at the online play, humans players will roam everywhere. You have to try versus Adriano 
By the way, i will put some botroam just to see what appen.

Now i'm fixing all my maps for the official release.

oa_akomdm1 is fixed.
oa_akomdm2 have now a new skybox with stars, i have fixed some textures issues after the scripts are changed.
oa_akomdm3 is "work in progress" to fix the light and the sky....... ....
oa_akomdm4 need to be fixed in the frontal sky and in the back sky as you have see.
oa_akomdm5 is fixed and now you can not jump in the stone robot place without die.
oa_akomctf1: i will insert some bot roam item.

[pelya]

oa_akomdm3 is "work in progress" to fix the light and the sky....... ....

This map is ideal, it's so beautiful you never need to look at the sky    also it's my favorite.

[Gig]

About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

[Akom74]

About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

[Gig]

About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

What? The change I proposed was AGAINST camping. Currently, also considering that teleporter is one-way, one might enter the secret door and wait there for minutes without seeing other players, and being warned of their arrival seeing the door moving. That's an hiding place that may be abused to reach the end of the round with more health than others, avoiding the battle as much as possible.
I proposed to remove the door (in elimination and lms modes only) to make it more quick to see if someone is hiding there, without the need to wait for the port to open. Or you may also remove the part of wall next to the door, leaving the teleporter exposed, completely removing the hiding spot (one should check bots do not have problems with a such gametype-dependent wall, maybe).

[Akom74]

About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

What? The change I proposed was AGAINST camping. Currently, also considering that teleporter is one-way, one might enter the secret door and wait there for minutes without seeing other players, and being warned of their arrival seeing the door moving. That's an hiding place that may be abused to reach the end of the round with more health than others, avoiding the battle as much as possible.
I proposed to remove the door (in elimination and lms modes only) to make it more quick to see if someone is hiding there, without the need to wait for the port to open. Or you may also remove the part of wall next to the door, leaving the teleporter exposed, completely removing the hiding spot (one should check bots do not have problems with a such gametype-dependent wall, maybe).

Sorry, i misunderstanding  
By the way, you can't see nothing, you can hear the door moving but once you enter the spot and take the ammo you never come back, you dont see the wall rear you when you enter ?
I'm not sure if i have understand right what you mean...... ...

Update:

oa_akomdm1: Fix in progress....
oa_akomdm2: Fixed !
oa_akomdm3: Fixed !
oa_akomdm4: Fixing the moving stars.....
oa_akomdm5: Fixed !
oa_akomctf1: Fixed !

If someone is asking himself why i have to fix a lot of things, i have to answer him that's because i have reordined the scripts files and the textures folders.......by the way you will see....

[Gig]

I'm writing from phone and I can't check the map now (I'm relying on my -not very good- memory). However, also if you cannot come back because you can open the door only from the external part, this does not prevent you from hiding inside it, and using the teleporter only when someone else will open the door (at that moment, you may even wait for the second player appearing on the other side of the teleporter!).

"A" enters the secret door, takes ammo.
"A" hides there.
"B" and "C" battle on other parts of the arena.
C kills but is weakened. A is still at full health.
C seaches for A.
Two options:
Scenery 1: C does not find A before match ends. A wins because he has got more health left.
Scenery 2: C activates the secret door. A hears that and then enters the portal, turns back and starts shooting at the place where he spawned. An instant later, C enters the portal, and re-appears with A already shooting at him. C dies, A wins the round.

It's just a fear, I don't know if that would be really abused this way...

P.S.: Idea! What about making the secret door expose a hole, with floating ammo and portal on the bottom? That would make hiding impossible!

[pelya]

I don't think such complicated scheme may be used to gain some real advantage, maybe just to hide and frustrate other players in Elimination mode. Anyway, Akom, if you could make it so that the sliding wall in the secret room would kill the player hiding there, it would be nice.