[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[Gig]

If someone is interested, I digged a little more about the difference between "common/nodraw" and "common/nodrawnonsolid" shaders in Q3Radiant.

From Q3Radiant's common.shader:

textures/common/nodraw
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nomarks
}

textures/common/nodrawnonsolid
{
   surfaceparm   nonsolid
   surfaceparm   nodraw
}

The "simple" nodraw is more incorporeal than the other one! The names are misleading!
I don't know what's the indended use for the second one. However, making its brush "detail" seems make it behave like the "simple" nodraw.

Then, I've made another try. I created four brushes, big enough to enter them. Two with "nodraw", and two with "nodrawnonsolid"; one for each kind is "structural", and the other one is "detail". I placed four thin platforms (made of normal brushes) just under them, to recognize where they are.
Take a look to the screenshots:
- Screen01: in the editor. Purple is "nodraw", yellow is "nodrawnonsolid". Those nearer to the scaffolding are the "detail" ones.
- Screen02: in Q3A. Three of them look the same (they seem to do not affect the map at all), but the fourth (nodrawnonsolid structural) has got its shadow on the ground (do you see it's a little darker there? Maybe it's caused by the metal base, but I think it belongs to the nodrawnonsolid), and makes a strange effect on the platform just below it (prevents the upper surface of that platform from being drawn, too).
- Screen03: I'm inside the "nodrawnonsolid structural". As you can notice, all items in the map are NOT shown.
- Screen04: I'm inside the "nodrawnonsolid detail". As you can see, now items are shown. Same happens with both "nodraw" brushes.

So, the "make detail" trick I used seems to work, but anyway I'm not so happy with relying on a such trick only, thinking that other people could open the .map and erroneously think that "nodrawnonsolid" is the best shader for that work. So I think that I will change all those "nodrawnonsolid" around my sparks to "nodraw". This will require a lot of time.   Wait! It exists the "replace texture" tool... I have to try if that does not make "damages" on textures placed on individual faces of brushes. UPDATE: Done, everything seems ok.  

PS: Sago, when talking about nodraw and water, were you referring to that stuff? http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42062

PPS: I'm going to go out for some holiday. I will not be able to work on my map (and probably, also to do tests with your maps) for 7-10 days. Probably I will have only little time also to check the forum (however I will do when I will have the opportunity, although through the cell phone). See you soon, guys!  

[Neon_Knight]

Good luck, Gig!

I'll download the maps and give my feedback right now. I feel I've contributed very little to this.

[Akom74]

oa_akompack.PK3 (fixed version) sended to neon_knight.

Waiting for the volume 2 

[Gig]

Okay guys!
I think starting from tomorrow I should be able to put some time on the map again. In the meanwhile, if you have some feedback, feel free to tell!  

PS: Akom, did you do some other changes? What?

PPS: Attention when making packs over packs... I'm not completely sure, but I really fear that "zz_name.pk3" is NOT loaded after "z_name.pk3", because "_" comes after "z" (maybe "z__name.pk3" may work -be loaded after z_name.pk3- instead, but I haven't tried). I don't know if this is OS-dependent.
This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.

PPPS: Did someone succed in playing OACMP online on the server with some humans? Impressions?

PPPPS: While playing on the internet server, I still see the oa_akomdm4 version where the shots explode on front and back skies (maybe related to the PPS above)...

PPPPPS: Any news from Jan and Moixie?

[Gig]

Akom, after having played some more on oa_akomdm3, I want to ask you if you considered to enlarge a little the bridges next to the teleporters, to make the gap between the bridge and the floor over the jumppad shorter. Screenshot shows one of the two passages involved (the one I used for testing).

Reaching the bridge (or vice versa) by (strafe)jumping is quite easy with 125 fps physics... but if using 90 fps or accurate physics (see (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Game_physics), it's more difficult (still possible, though).
In general, it would be better if OA maps would not require 125 fps physics to be fully playable.
Of course, it's your choice to decide if jumping that gap should be a relatively normal path for the average player or a shortcut for experienced players...

Personally, I fear that trying to do that "inviting" jump and failing, makes user experience worse.

I don't know if when they designed that huge gap in Q3DM6 (longer than the one in your map), at id software they already knew the "different jumps at different framerates" problem (maybe at that time they did not even thought it may have been possible to jump from the railgun to the bridge).

[Akom74]

PS: Akom, did you do some other changes? What?

I have simply inserted the .arena file that was missing.

Akom, after having played some more on oa_akomdm3, I want to ask you if you considered to enlarge a little the bridges next to the teleporters, to make the gap between the bridge and the floor over the jumppad shorter....

No, you dont need to jump from the bridge, you can use the jumppad. Viceversa you can strafe even at 90 fps to jump to the bridge.

[Gig]

No, you dont need to jump from the bridge, you can use the jumppad.

But this would make you lose time...

Viceversa you can strafe even at 90 fps to jump to the bridge.

Yes, you can do it also at 90fps, but it's a little harder (I actually had some problems doing it while I was playing online on the server... I don't know what kind of physics Pelya's server was using... later I did some tests locally, trying different settings, and wrote my post)... anyway I don't see reasons to do not make the bridge a little larger.

[pelya]

The second jumppad is there because you cannot jump to the bridge, and yes, you will lose some time. I suggest making it impossible to jump, so it will be less confusing.

[Akom74]

The maps are released in this beta as them are.
Now i'm working to other maps.

Dont worry, once the pack is released the community can edit all the maps.

[pelya]

Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is. There are still some major issues in two Jan's maps, that should be fixed before final release.
@jangroothuijse you seem to be busy lately, so Is it okay if I'll modify your maps a bit?

[sago007]

This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.

Why not simply name them name01.pk3, name02.pk3 and so forth?

I also use the same naming convention for the bsp files (so that the pk3 file have the same name as the bsp file). That way multiple betas can be installed simultaneously and compared. This does not work for shaders and textures but I still believe it to be the best approach.

[Akom74]

Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is....

You're right, at the moment i'm working at the new maps for the second volume, but i have little time for that.
You (all) can see some screenshots here:

http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t185-oa-community-mappack

[Gig]

This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.

Why not simply name them name01.pk3, name02.pk3 and so forth?

IIRC, because OACMP Beta 2 filename is z_oacmp_beta2.pk3. Hence, any version of my map (udestruction.bsp) in any later udestructionXX.pk3 would have been ignored, with the version from the oacmpB2 package used instead.

I used a single .bsp name in all pk3s to avoid the need of updating .arena file each time, and to be sure people would really launch the "current" version after they install it (re-testing an older version still possible by renaming the latest ".pk3" to ".pk3tmp" or similar).

[jangroothuijse]

Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is. There are still some major issues in two Jan's maps, that should be fixed before final release.
@jangroothuijse you seem to be busy lately, so Is it okay if I'll modify your maps a bit?

That would be perfect, i just really haven't gotten around to it...i do not want to slow the development down...

This is the latest progress on the ctf map:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgctf1alpha2.pk3
Fixed: spawn issues, base colors

[pelya]

Thanks! That fixes one map. The only issue left is the teleport in oajgdm2 looking like plain wall.
I've uploaded the new map on the test server.

[Neon_Knight]

Uploaded into the D/L server akom's pack and oajgctf1alpha2. Updated the links on the wiki, accordingly.

[Gig]

Pelya, did you rename Akom's pack on the server? Otherwise, old versions are used instead of latest ones.
I would suggest the same also to NeonKnight...

[pelya]

Yes I've renamed it, new versions are used, because it shows sky with stars on akomdm2.

[Neon_Knight]

I did that. New name of Akom's pack has the date in the D/L server.

[Gig]

Quickly tested OAJGCTF1ALPHA2.

Nice, but some problems (some mentioned early, some not) are still present.

1) Look at the first two screenshots: that looks strange. Is it intentional?

2) Look at the third screenshot: you can see a glitch where two bevels touch. Did you remember to place "caulk" texture on a brush behind the bevels?

3) Except passing through the center of the map, no way to go from a base to the lateral high passages, except rocket jumping. It seems bots do not do it to get there. As you can see in the last screenshot, I ordered a bot to follow me, and he had no idea how to actually reach me, and got stuck where you see it. I would suggest a way to get up there affordable also for bots.

4) No location names are present.

5) .arena file lists for CTF only. Of course, at least Elimination CTF should also be available!

6) What about adding support for some other gametype?

7) Trying to launch the map in gametype 0 makes the game crash (could not find spawn point): this should never happen! Also happens if I try to join a team in Double Domination mode. Please, always place deathmatch spawn points also in CTF maps.

8) No "message" key for worldspawn (no "long" map name shown during map loading).

9) I noticed at least one spawn point (in a lateral tunnel) that made me appear just facing a wall. It's not a real problem, however changing its facing angle could be nice.

PS: Do you remember, OAJDM3ALPHA5 has still got some glitch...

[Hitchhiker]

hi,

firstly, thank you all for making these maps!

secondly, in another thread we're trying to get glsl used more in OA. Has any of you any will to try modifying your q3 shaders to include glsl? If so, which effects/glsl programs would you need? if so and if you want to describe the desired effect, please let me know (either start a new glsl related thread or pm me) and I'll try to help.

 

[jangroothuijse]

Quickly tested OAJGCTF1ALPHA2.

Nice, but some problems (some mentioned early, some not) are still present.

1) Look at the first two screenshots: that looks strange. Is it intentional?

2) Look at the third screenshot: you can see a glitch where two bevels touch. Did you remember to place "caulk" texture on a brush behind the bevels?

3) Except passing through the center of the map, no way to go from a base to the lateral high passages, except rocket jumping. It seems bots do not do it to get there. As you can see in the last screenshot, I ordered a bot to follow me, and he had no idea how to actually reach me, and got stuck where you see it. I would suggest a way to get up there affordable also for bots.

4) No location names are present.

5) .arena file lists for CTF only. Of course, at least Elimination CTF should also be available!

6) What about adding support for some other gametype?

7) Trying to launch the map in gametype 0 makes the game crash (could not find spawn point): this should never happen! Also happens if I try to join a team in Double Domination mode. Please, always place deathmatch spawn points also in CTF maps.

No "message" key for worldspawn (no "long" map name shown during map loading).

9) I noticed at least one spawn point (in a lateral tunnel) that made me appear just facing a wall. It's not a real problem, however changing its facing angle could be nice.

PS: Do you remember, OAJDM3ALPHA5 has still got some glitch...

1) Nope that's a glitch, good eye.

Thanks for the feedback, NeonKnight added some support for more gametypes last time around but surprisingly i could not find the .map for his work...

The last picture, asside from a lack of AA and AF, nothing really jumps out at me? Coloring seems a bit bright, but your config is not default is it?

I haven't used the Claulk anywhere yet, is it suppose to 'seperate' the bevels from the walls they are touching? should it then overlap the wall of the bevel?

Spawnpoints are new, i just figured out yesterday what redplayer and redspawn do, so they we tossed in in a hurry.

3) Fair enough, i'm thinking either teleporter at the back of the base or jumppad directly in front of the lateral passage.

hi,

firstly, thank you all for making these maps!

secondly, in another thread we're trying to get glsl used more in OA. Has any of you any will to try modifying your q3 shaders to include glsl? If so, which effects/glsl programs would you need? if so and if you want to describe the desired effect, please let me know (either start a new glsl related thread or pm me) and I'll try to help.

Are those seperate issues, or do i fix them both by adding message in worldspawn?
 

I did not know this was possible....I definitely DEFINITELY want to give this a try...

[Gig]

@jan
About "caulk", it is used on (single faces of?) standard brushes placed behind curved polygons (usually, bevels), to prevent the "flickering" effect that may sometimes occur in the place where bevels touch.

You can take a look to Akom's tutorial page about curved polygons, to take a look how he used "caulk" in that example. Akom wrote that in Italian, so here it is a link to read it in English by Google Translate. Obviously, automatic translators do errors.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fakom74.forumattivo.com%2Ft91-02-poligoni-curvi&act=url
[OT] @Akom: I have no idea why I cannot click on your screenshots to enlarge them anymore. Something changed in your forum? Any idea? [/OT]

When I applied "Jan's style" curved walls as borders for udestruction map, in a relatively small number of places where two bevels touched, I saw that edge "flickering" while I was moving (this is also what I see in your map, in the place of the THIRD screenshot I attached above. But it's hard to notice if you are not moving... however, in the screenshot, is that little black line next to the top of the bevels edge). To fix that, I applied "caulk" on the (internal only face maybe? I don't remember now) brushes that form the lateral "box" that contains the map (and that the player cannot see because they are hidden behind the bevels). You can open udestruction in the editor and take a look: hide the "big walls" bevels, and look at what's behind.

Howerver, I suppose more experienced mappers (unlike Akom or Neon_Knight, I'm noob at mapping) should be able to give better explainations about caulk.

The LAST (fourth) screenshot, instead, shows the fact that I ordered that bot to "follow me", but it was not able to reach me (it did not follow my rocket jump, and it was not so smart to understrand that there is a jump-pad in the middle of the map that could have bring it to the tunnel that brings to the place where I was)... so he got stuck in that part of the map where you see it.

About worldspawn "message" key... indeed it is usually used to show "long" map name during map loading.

[Gig]

@Hitchhiker

Veeery interesting. I was already thinking to ask someone help for having a "flowing" water shader... you could be the solution. 

First, did you try my map UDESTRUCTION version 7? So you will understand what I'm talking about.
http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version07.pk3

I'm using Q3Radiant (under Q3A) to map (I've had some problems with NetRadiant, so I used it to add TA/OA specific items only).
As you can see, I placed water in two places: on an aqueduct and in a cistern.

liquids/clear_ripple2 for the aqueduct
liquids/clear_ripple3 for the cistern

I like them enough... but I'd like to see the water in the aqueduct to (relatively rapidly) flow in a specific direction (I would have asked to someone for a such shader also without GLSL)... could you do that?
I suppose one might use GLSL to create some kind of water effect better than classic Q3 water.
Hence, I would need two shaders: one with water flowing in a direction, and one for the "almost-static" water in the cistern, but following the "graphic style" GLSL will give to the other one.


For the sake of completion, from Q3Radiant's baseq3/scripts/liquids.shader (NOT GPL, I fear. I suppose we CANNOT start from these, for copyright reasons..)

textures/liquids/clear_ripple2

//   *********************************************************
//   *      Small clear ripple water. Created September 9   *
//   *********************************************************
   
   {
      qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3b.tga
      qer_trans .5
      q3map_globaltexture
      surfaceparm trans
      surfaceparm nonsolid
      surfaceparm water

      cull disable
      deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5   

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_5b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 1.5 0 1.5 1 1 2
         tcmod scroll -.05 .001
      }
   
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_6b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 0 1.5 1 1.5 2 1
         tcmod scroll .025 -.001
      }

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_3b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .25 .5
         tcmod scroll .001 .025
      }

      {
         map $lightmap
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
         rgbgen identity      
      }
   

   }

textures/liquids/clear_ripple3

//   *********************************************************
//   *      Medium clear ripple water. Created September 9   *
//   *********************************************************
      
   {
      qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3c.tga
      qer_trans .5
      q3map_globaltexture
      surfaceparm trans
      surfaceparm nonsolid
      surfaceparm water
   
      cull disable
      deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5   
      
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_5c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 1.5 0 1.5 1 1 2
         tcmod scroll -.05 .001
      }
   
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_6c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 0 1.5 1 1.5 2 1
         tcmod scroll .025 -.001
      }

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_3c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .25 .5
         tcmod scroll .001 .025
      }
   
      {
         map $lightmap
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
         rgbgen identity      
      }
   

   }

---------------------------

From OpenArena baseoa/pak6-patch088.pk3 --> scripts/liquid_water.shader
Although I compile from Q3Radiant, while playing the map in OA I suppose these are used instead.
OA stuff is GPLv2. I suppose we SHOULD start from these. I have to figure out how will I work with them in Q3Radiant, due to the fact they refer to .jpg files instead of .tga files like the original ones; I imagine creating a temporary pk3 file with the required .jpg taken from OA pk3s should work.

textures/liquids/clear_ripple2
{
   qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.jpg
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm water
   cull disable
   deformVertexes wave 64 sin .25 .25 0 .5   
      
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll -.025 .001
   }

   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .03 -.001
   }
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5e.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .001 .025
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_zero
      rgbgen identity      
   }
   

}

textures/liquids/clear_ripple3
{
   qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.jpg
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm water
   cull disable
   deformVertexes wave 64 sin .25 .25 0 .5   
      
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll -.05 .001
   }

   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .025 -.001
   }
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5e.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .001 .025
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_zero
      rgbgen identity      
   }
   

}

More, in my map I placed a custom shader (starting from one made by Akom for his hyperspace stars in oa_akomdm4 map) to give a sort of "sparks" effect above the jumppads. Over each jump-pad there are some polygons that have one face with gig/gig_stripes1 shader, and the other five with "nodraw". In the z_udestruction-version07.pk3 I erroneously used "nodrawnonsolid" instead of "nodraw" (I did more tests here) for such faces, so it ended up having those "incorporeal" polygons project shadows on the walls (I did not want that), as you can see inside the towers. I have already fixed this by replacing "nodrawnonsolid" with "nodraw", but I have not published the fixed version yet.

For the non-GLSL version, I already like them exactly as they are now... but if you wanna try applying some "cool" GLSL effect, I would be curious to see that.
From z_udestruction-version07.pk3 --> scripts/gig_stripes1.shader

textures/gig/gig_stripes1
{
        surfaceparm trans   
        surfaceparm nomarks   
        surfaceparm nonsolid
        surfaceparm nolightmap
        cull none
               
   {
      map textures/gig/gig_stripes1.tga
                tcMod Scroll .5 .6
                blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
        }
           
}

Well, the .shader file inside z_udestruction-version07.pk3 may show a little "indentation" problem (due to having used TAB instead of spaces in a line), here I posted the "fixed" version.

If you still have will to spend your time with my map, there are a few textures added by me that maybe could take advantage of some "shiny" effects (marble and tiles floors). I think no GLSL is required for that, but I suck with shaders and I don't know how to do it (I haven't looked at existing OA shining floors shaders yet). I don't even know if they would fit with the "dusty" look of the map.... maybe it's better to let them as they are now?

About other people's maps... maybe Akom's teleporters in oa_akomdm1 and oa_akomdm4 may take advantage of "cool" GLSL effects... and there is still Jan's oajgdm2 map where teleporters seem plain walls (maybe als his oajdgdm1 map has got a couple of such teleporters, I don't remember now). However, talk directly with them if they are interested. 

[Hitchhiker]

Hi all,
just to keep this thread clean.. post wishlist of glsl programs in the 'glsl' tread? for the moment I'll add water (flowing and static).