[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[CGB01]

What? My NetRadiant folder does NOT have that file! How's that possible? In oa.game\basea I have only entities.def, entities-ta.def, entities.ent and entitites-ta.ent... nothing more.

Then I suggest you re-download the package and re-install because it's in the original zip file...  http://ingar.satgnu.net/gtkradiant/files/netradiant-20120705-win32.zip

The one I downloaded was this one: http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/netradiant-1.5.0-20110223-withoa.zip
From this thread by Sago007: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0
Is that flawed?  

Don't know if it's flawed, but your version is dated Feb-23/2011 while mine is over a year older at July-05/2012.

[Gig]

@Gig: I have the same issue with GTKradiant 1.6 for textures alignement and i leaving that editor to return to Q3Radiant that work better with textures. I suggest you to build the map with Q3Radiant and use NETradiant (or GTKradiant) to add TA items or other things and for compile the map.

I can't believe there is no way to do that. I hope Sago or Neon_Knight may tell us how to do. That's almost a fundamental action.

For double mark in the water you have to resize the brush of the water to exceed in the brush around it, and also the low part.

Uh? I tried enlarging by 4 units the water, in the four directions plus downside, and recompiled... but this does not seem to solve the problem. It seems nothing changed.  Could you please try compiling my map yourself? Thank you!
And does not explain why in a simple test map the water works correctly, without the need a such tweak... 

[Akom74]

For double mark in the water you have to resize the brush of the water to exceed in the brush around it, and also the low part.

Uh? I tried enlarging by 4 units the water, in the four directions plus downside, and recompiled... but this does not seem to solve the problem. It seems nothing changed.   Could you please try compiling my map yourself? Thank you!
And does not explain why in a simple test map the water works correctly, without the need a such tweak...  

I'm editing your map for compiling it, but seems that Q3Radiant make a fake compile process, it compile i 31 secs, but nothing changes when i try it in OA......
.....i'm doing some try.......i'll tell you....



EDIT: I don't understand, i think it's something wrong with the script, but it seems the original OA script...... 

[Gig]

Uh? If you are talking about Q3Radiant, the script that compiles a map may get "broken" quite easily due to a bug in the editor (I mentioned this problem DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling#Q3Radiant]here). If your compiling options got broken, you have to manually fix your quake.qe4 file.

However, I wanted to tell you that you may try to rename the .map file before compiling it... and to scroll compiling log carefully, searching for errors.

[Akom74]

Uh? If you are talking about Q3Radiant, the script that compiles a map may get "broken" quite easily due to a bug in the editor (I mentioned this problem DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling#Q3Radiant]here). If your compiling options got broken, you have to manually fix your quake.qe4 file.

However, I wanted to tell you that you may try to rename the .map file before compiling it... and to scroll compiling log carefully, searching for errors.

I forget to update
It work, it was my mistake with the gig_stripes.shader 

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.

[Gig]

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.

Uhm... I just recompiled from udestruction v7 (the version I suppose you tried with), and I see "double" marks in both aqueduct and cistern (with both clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3). Both compiling from Q3Radiant and from NetRadiant. I'm very confused.

[Akom74]

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.

Uhm... I just recompiled from udestruction v7 (the version I suppose you tried with), and I see "double" marks in both aqueduct and cistern (with both clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3). Both compiling from Q3Radiant and from NetRadiant. I'm very confused.

Maybe you have make some mistake with shaders ?? (question)
I have resized the brush of the aqueduct as i suggested you ?

I my OA the clear_ripple 2 don't give the double mark issue.

[Gig]

Making a series of tests, I've just figured out that THE PROBLEM OCCURS WHERE THE WATER IS 21 UNITS DEEP OR LOWER.
Where the water is 22 units deep or more, the problem does not occur.
(Tested with Q3A)

I don't how to workaround this... simply extending the water brush into the floor (to reach a total of 22 units or more) does not fix the problem.

I've just taken a look to FlagRaiders mod's SPCTFMAP1 and SPCTFBONUS maps (at the beginning of them there is a little of water), and the glitch appears there too (although it's less noticeable due to the fact that water is more dark blue by itself).

Any ideas, guys?

[Gig]

A place to test the problem in baseoa: "the cistern" map (oa_dm5, see screenshot).
Where the water is not deep enough (less than 22 units), marks are left also on water surface, other than on pool bottom.
I can guess this may be a bug in gamecode (there since Q3A), and that would require a fix in OAX by Sago or similar. I can imagine that maybe some other water-related feature (e.g. influencing players movement) may not apply if the water is not at least 22 units deep, but Id Software programmers did not thought about the fact the "mark" should have been disabled also for less deep water.

Any workaround possible?

Note: in this screenshot of the "double marks", the one of the water surface is not exacly vertically above the one on the ground, but is a little on the right... maybe due to the fact the ground in that place is not horizontal, but diagonal.
Afeter some other tests, I can see that if the floor is sloping, the mark on the water surface is not vertically above the one on the bottom, but shifted... and this is not good... where there are sloping ramps to get out of a pool, the problem can become very noticeable (although I don't know the reason why this does not seem to affect HYDRONEX and HYDRONEX2 maps... maybe their water shaders have got something that prevents the problem from happening?).

PS: In another place where I added water, it seems that 22 was not enough, but with 24 it worked also there... maybe I erroneously counted the units, or there is also some other "variable" that affects the behavior...

PPS: I think that in my map I will limit the water level to 1 unit... this makes the problem much less noticeable (though still there), but of course it cannot be adapt for many situations.

[CGB01]

Gig, I wonder if it's because none of the clear_ripple1, clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3 don't have the surfaceparm nomarks shader instruction.  Doesn't really explain why shallow water gets the marks while deep water doesn't.

[Gig]

Gig, I wonder if it's because none of the clear_ripple1, clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3 don't have the surfaceparm nomarks shader instruction.

Thank you man, I added "surfaceparm nomarks" to my customized water shader, and now the water seems to work correctly.       I wonder why I did not try this before...  
Well, when I took a look to "hydrowater" shader, comparing it to "clear_ripple2" and "brwnwater", I saw all three of them had three "surfaceparm" parameters, so I ingenuously thought they were the same and I focused on their different "blendfunc" parameters in the various stages. I didn't notice that hydrowater had "surfaceparm nomarks" due to the fact it had the same total of three surfaceparms.... and I didn't notice it was because it lacked the "nonsolid" one. D'oh!
Trivia: in Q3A's liquid.shader file, there is only one shader that has got "surfaceparm nomarks" (liquids/proto_gruel), while OA's liquid_water.shader file has got more than a dozen of shaders with "nomarks" (but all those "clear_ripple*" NOT).

Maybe in the next OA release, we could tweak all remaining water shaders, adding "sufarceparm nomarks" to all of them (some more testing may be required anyay, to be sure this would not have bad side effects... but considering many OA water shaders already have it, probably it's safe enough).
I have not tested yet if map re-compiling is necessary to have the change effective.

Doesn't really explain why shallow water gets the marks while deep water doesn't.

Yes. Hence, I suppose a fix in the gamecode, too, may be welcome anyway (that would allow to also fix custom third-party water shaders in third-party maps... a thing not possible by simply tweaking baseoa shaders). Of course, if it's not too difficult/invasive.

[Gig]

Hi guys, how are you? My map is progressing well. I think I should be able to give you V8 this week.
But a question... do you think that there is some way to make the "flowing" water give a little "push" to the player (to the direction it is flowing to)?
I fear that's not possible (at the moment, I don't remember any map with a such thing), but maybe you guys know some way I don't know...
Maybe using target_push (instead of the usual trigger_push used for jump-pads), giving it a facing angle and a small "speed" value?

PS: searching for infos about the above thing, I noticed a line in Q3Radiant manual: it looks like there is a "grapplereach" option for the BSPC command... has someone ever tried it?

[Akom74]

Hi all, in my little time, i'm working to some maps:
http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t185-oa-community-mappack

@Gig: I don't know how it's possible to give the push effect to the water, if it's possible i mean.
If you put any trigger_push entity the player will hear the push sound when he enter in the trigger, and i think it's not the right way.... ....sorry, i never try this feature...

[Gig]

I've just done a few tests with a trigger_multiple with a target_push. I have not been able do to what I was trying (all I obtained was a sort of invisible force field that made your movement difficult while you are in it, but in all directions and that does nothing if you are not moving.  
If you guys have something to suggest, I will try... but I fear that id Software did not foresee a such feature (baseq3 had not map with "flowing" water).

What about a func_train on the floor of the aqueduct instead?

UPDATE: I'm figuring out that a such "func_train" along all the aqueduct would be a huge work due to the fact I would need many (distinct but touching each other) "trains" to have a continuous effect... but I would like to do some tests anyway, just to see if that would give the effect I'm searching for.

But I'm not good to make this "train" thing work at all. Could someone please give me some hint, or link a tutorial for using it?
I created a square brush, and made it "func_train", then placed a path_corner at various meters from it, and linked them with "target" and "targetname" keys. But I read I should specify an "origin"... if I manually specify an "origin" key with coordinates, the train brush does not even appear in the game... I can see it exists a "common/origin" texture, but I have no idea about how to use it.

UPDATE2: I found out how to use trains. Currently making some tries...

[Gig]

Not yet completely sure, but it seems the "train" trick may work (of course, only with "thin" water, with the character not swimming... although maybe it's not so realistic... in practice, it's just a conveyor belt placed under water surface).

To be able to save a lot of work, I have a question:
Can two distinct "func_train"s follow the same exact path (with the exception of the very first part), sharing the same path_corner points?
I mean, I did a first train (made with a big brush with a standard texture + a small brush with "common/origin" texture) that, from its origin, goes to -> A -> B -> C -> D -> A path_corner points (D point has got the same position and size of the train's "origin" brush), and have it working.
Then I duplicated the first train, and moved this second one to have the forward side the second one touching the back side of the first one, and I made the second one to point target "D". But the second one does not show up in the game.
What may have I done wrong? What's the actual starting point of trains when the map starts? Their origin or the first path_corner?


And by the way... what's that "Smart Entities -> Smart Train" that I can see in the right-click menu of q3radiant, but that is not in the entity list?

[Gig]

Uhm... trying to make these multiple "trains" follow the same paths, I even got situations where the game stucks on map load.
I'm going to abort this "train" idea, it's too complicated for a so little change in gameplay, and that -although nice- would not be very realistic anyway.

[Gig]

Under Destruction beta version 8 is available for download here:
http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version08.pk3
(Link may not be effective forever)


Sorry for having you wait so much, but I spent a lot of time with shaders (and I'm still a noob with them... although consulting Q3 shader manual, I only partially understood what I was doing), and trying to implement some things that at the end I had to left out due to being too difficult or with bad looking results.

Map polishing isn't 100% complete, but I think it is going good.

Changes about gameplay (few):
- The jump pad that allows you to take the megahealth now brings you to the roof of the temple, instead of making you bounce vertically over and over again.
- Now it's more easy to rocket-jump from the "personal teleporter/invulnerability/kamikaze" platform to the aqueduct.
- A bit bigger windows in the BFG room should allow to throw in grenades more easily.

Changes about map looking:
- Customized jump-pads
- Custom accelarator pads
- Customized sky (illumination tweaked)
- Added "reflection-like" (not actually mirroring) "shiny" effects to various surfaces (on tiles in the ruined house, floor and colums of the temple, some gametype-dependent "marble" brushes).
- Added "colored stripes" effect (this time, with a circular brush) under gametype-oriented things as flags and obelisks.
- Custom blue-ish water effects. In particular, fast-flowing water on the aqueduct. Do you like it?
- A little more use of "pebbles" and "grass" textures (some grass should also help a little to find the door button). Also a short path of stones inside the ruined house garden.
- Changed color of light entities, from default white to the same color that the sky should generate (green-ish).
- The personal teleporter/etc. platform (now shiny) now contains an OA logo on the side, if you look carefully.

What do you think about it? I'm waiting for your opinions and suggestions.


PS: A note about water: did I tell you that fortunately "surfaceparm nomarks" does not require map recompile to be effective?

[Akom74]

@Gig: i really appreciate this version, lot of customs stuff are welcome. Oa need new textures and custom effects. I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.

The map still dont have an ambient sound

Can you make a "blank" textures for bounce pad and jumppad ? I mean without marble, briks or other textures in background ? It will be used for more maps, and i love the bouncepad you created

The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.

[Gig]

@Gig: i really appreciate this version, lot of customs stuff are welcome. Oa need new textures and custom effects.

Thank you, however for the effects I simply looked into existing stock oa maps (downloaded from svn source .map files of maps containing interesting effects, and unzipped 0.8.1, 0.8.5 and 0.8.8 shader files to folders where I could make text string searches), then copied a few shaders I liked, applied them to my own textures and played a little with some parameters...

I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.

After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.

The map still dont have an ambient sound

I have not decided yet if using music or not. The delay (and yellow warning) that happens when music restarts is not too nice.

Can you make a "blank" textures for bounce pad and jumppad ? I mean without marble, briks or other textures in background ? It will be used for more maps, and i love the bouncepad you created

I just took the standard oa jumppad, and modified the two images that compose it, to add some more details and change the colors. I started from one-layer OA jpg and tga (I have not been able to find multi-layer "sources" for them)... anyway I have the multi-layer .psd files with my changes (of course I will release all my .psd files with the final map, but if you want I can already post this one the next Monday), and there I somehow managed to separe the circular part from the bricks (using magnetic lazo tool, IIRC).

The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.

If Pelya will upload this version to his server, we may schedule an online test.
By the way... Pelya, did you receive some feedback about the oacmp maps from (occasional?) players in your server?

[pelya]

I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.

After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.

Well, bots were sniping me rather well while I was in the air. I don't know about human players, it probably will be more difficult for them. I cannot decide if grappling hook really gives you any advantage on this map, maybe it will, if you learn some shortcut routes. Human players tend to call everyone cheaters regardless of what tricks or weapons you are using anyway

The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.

If Pelya will upload this version to his server, we may schedule an online test.
By the way... Pelya, did you receive some feedback about the oacmp maps from (occasional?) players in your server?

I do not monitor my server, because I'm poor admin (also I've redirected logfile to /dev/null, because the server is running from SD card). I'll upload Beta8 to my server, when I'll get home today. (Edit: did that).
I'm also available for few games during weekend, so go on and schedule it.
BTW there's only 3 issues left for OACMP release (from my point of view of course, Gig asked for several more enhancements):
1. Teleport looking like piece of wall in oajgdm2.
2. No support for FFA/TDM/DD/One flag capture modes in oajgctf1.
3. Final version of Udestruction. Actually I was happy with Beta7, but Gig keeps polishing it, that's not something bad of course
I hope I'll have a bit of free time during weekends to fix first two issues.

[Suicizer]

I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.

After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.

Well, bots were sniping me rather well while I was in the air. I don't know about human players, it probably will be more difficult for them. I cannot decide if grappling hook really gives you any advantage on this map, maybe it will, if you learn some shortcut routes. Human players tend to call everyone cheaters regardless of what tricks or weapons you are using anyway

OMG how did you kill me cheetah!

[pelya]

I've updated oajgctf1 map, this fixes these bugs, and adds support for Domination, DD, One Flag and Overload game modes. My BSPC seems to be dysfunctional, because the bots are behaving weirdly. Can that be because I've removed botclip walls and clusterportals around the map? AAS file size is just 90 Kb. I guess so, because AAS file compiles fine for the original version, and bots are running everywhere.
Also, when I've compiled the oajgctf1 for the first time, the map was pitch-dark, so I've had to create another shader for illuminated sky. How are you guys compiling those maps? Am I missing something? BTW I'm using latest GTKRadiant.
I'll try to fix bot issues when I'll have some free time, probably next weekend.

[Gig]

@All, especially Akom:
Okay, I've published the source of the jump-pad you liked, just check this thread: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4785.0

Feel free to further customize it as you wish.

@All, especially Pelya:
Interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot test it today.
I have to admit I would have preferred if Jan himself would have updated his map, instead of having a "fork". What about sending a PM to Jan, asking him to take a look to your version, and continuing from there if he wants?
About the sky, is it possible that you forgot to add a .shader file from Jan to your shaderlist.txt? It is important, because one may risk that also other shaders may look correctly, but may lack important parameters (examples: emitting light or being non-solid) that are considered by the map compiler only if the shader is listed in shaderlist.txt.
Or maybe Jan forgot to include a .shader file (the one containing the sky) into his package, maybe? With a quick look into his "z_zoajgdm3alpha5.pk3" file, it looks like none of the three .shader files included has got a "q3map_sun" line (I think that shader creator should balance both q3map_sun and q3map_surfaceLight parameters to find the illumination result he likes for his map). Maybe that shader file is in the package of one of his other maps, that show a similar azure sky?

UPDATE: I PM'd Jan, just asking him to take a look to your post.

[GrosBedo]

I only tried the Udestruction map from Gig yet, and I like it a lot. The architecture could be reworked a bit for some parts (mainly the walls of the big structures), but overall it's a kinda nice open map, and these are not common in OA, so it's a welcome addition.

I particularly like the triple jumpad to the megahealth (although most players will get killed before reaching it), and above all I liked the water streams floors, which slow you down in one direction and make you faster in another direction. This is so clever that I think it SHOULD be reused in other maps as an alternative to jumppads (I don't know if you can control the power of the water streams, but if that's the case, you can make it powerful enough to give a real sense of speed and fun! - just like in one of the subgames in Kinect Adventures).

[Gig]

General:
Thank you very much for the praise!  

Question:
Can I ask you what do you think about the grappling hook?

Water flow:
Are you kidding me, my friend?  

I tried in various ways (check previous posts) to implement something that allowed the water stream to "push" you in a direction (and slow you down in the other one).... I've spent a considerable time, but I failed and I gave up (until someone may give some other idea about how to do it). I just checked, you run in both directions at the same 266 ups (instead of the usual 320 ups, I suppose that having your feet in water slows you down a little). Unfortunately, water flow is just a visual effect with no "directional push"...

I've just thought that I may try to make the aqueduct "sloping", but I tried with the ramps of the cistern, and I see you have the same speed when running going up and when going down: nothing to do. Maybe I could make a try adding "surfaceparm slick" to a ramp, but I fear that would not be exactly what I'm searching for.
And making the aqueduct sloping may cause me some problems (technical and gameplay-related)...