Poll
Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 486476 times)
Gig
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« Reply #950 on: August 07, 2013, 09:25:20 am »

Hey guys... any comments about udestruction latest versions (V10 and V10bis)?  Huh Huh Huh

However, I've tested Moixie's DM map (version from this post).
Things I noticed:
- Domination seems still supported due to a domination point appearing there. But it falls down when the hatch opens, making it unreachable! Is it possible to flag it as "suspended"? Otherwise, one may place two (or more) domination points, in two different places, leaving none over the trapdoor.
- Bots still do not play very well on the map. I ordered a bot to follow me, then I went to the upper floor: the bot kept falling in the void over and over again..., making team score go down very quickly.
- It also seems that they almost never walk over the hatch: the bot followed me walking around the pit (that was closed), without taking the quad damage. Did you place "botdonotenter" there, for some reason, maybe?
Maybe you could try using different BSPC versions (e.g. the original from Q3Radiant, and the one that comes with GTKRadiant 1.6... with or without the "-forcesidesvisible" option)... just to make some try.
- Lack of background music? But I have not checked my music volume option.

I'm sorry I don't have time to test the current version of your CTF map now. Bye!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 11:54:52 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #951 on: August 07, 2013, 09:45:38 am »

Hey guys... any comments about udestruction latest versions (V10 and V10bis)?  Huh Huh Huh

The only things i've noticed you can see in the screenshots below:

This little brush bug:


And, in the bis version, this ugly stripes, don't know why....


Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #952 on: August 07, 2013, 11:01:46 am »

You should check the paths on q3map2build, and perhaps might suit you to play a bit with the "custom" lights. "Custom" vis can only serve for adding -prtview to the batch, which you can later use to see how much is drawn on the screen.
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Gig
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« Reply #953 on: August 08, 2013, 02:18:26 am »

@Neon_knight - I will not be able to do more compiling tests for about 10 days. If you wanna do a few tests yourself, in the meanwhile...

@Akom - Thank you, I did not notice that brush problem.

@All - What abot bots performances tests? Do you notice any difference between v10 and v10bis, about bot behavior and "hitches"?

@Moixie - Other than the things I said in the post above... what about using bouncepads with some kind of animation? Maybe I have some pk3 problem (Sorry, I had to test it on a different machine, where the oa install is not "clean"), but I see the bouncepads in your dm map without any animation.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 04:29:09 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #954 on: August 08, 2013, 04:48:25 am »

@Akom - Thank you, I did not notice that brush problem.

@All - What abot bots performances tests? Do you notice any difference between v10 and v10bis, about bot behavior and "hitches"?

What about to place some little brush in the aqueduct to let the player come out of the water ? I mean a little step with noclip_full texture.

For BOTs roam, i spent many time watching BOTs roam, and i can tell you for sure the they are attracted mainly from power up such as quad/invisibility/regeneration and the others, after that, the plasmagun is a drug for many of them. The BOTs roam change a little when you insert another or many other BOTs.

If you want i can try to delete the curved mountains and place brush mountains. You agree with that ? Smiley Tongue

@Gig: Can you explain why you have placed a bot_not_enter texture in the "house of pillars" and inside that there are some bot_roam_entity ??

Wink
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 05:23:54 am by Akom74 » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #955 on: August 08, 2013, 06:26:58 am »

I don't understand, what's the problem with jumping to get out from the aqueduct? :-/
Staying inside the aqueduct gives you the little advantage of being (a little) covered by enemy fire, at the small cost of pushing jump button to get out from it (that can however be also a good thing if you do not want to risk to erroneously get out). And I try to avoid excessive use of invisible platforms that would make people seem "suspended", when it is possible.

For making something in the place of the curved walls, you are free to make a TRY. (Note: before adopting the curved brushes solution, I've been asking you guys for a such thing for months... Cheesy) Of course, I will then take a look to your version and then I will decide if to continue from there or from my version.

What "donotenter"? I cannot check right now, but I'm pretty sure they are "hint" brushes, those that should theoretically help compiler to create "vis" portals, to draw less stuff. I hoped this may have helped the game to do not elaborate the pillars in the hall (that are curves) when the player cannot see them... However, I fear that did not work very well.


Gig from mobile phone.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:33:24 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #956 on: August 08, 2013, 07:15:05 am »

I don't understand, what's the problem with jumping to get out from the aqueduct? :-/
Staying inside the aqueduct gives you the little advantage of being (a little) covered by enemy fire, at the small cost of pushing jump button to get out from it (that can however be also a good thing if you do not want to risk to erroneously get out). And I try to avoid excessive use of invisible platforms that would make people seem "suspended", when it is possible.

For making something in the place of the curved walls, you are free to make a TRY. (Note: before adopting the curved brushes solution, I've been asking you guys for a such thing for months... Cheesy) Of course, I will then take a look to your version and then I will decide if to continue from there or from my version.

What "donotenter"? I cannot check right now, but I'm pretty sure they are "hint" brushes, those that should theoretically help compiler to create "vis" portals, to draw less stuff. I hoped this may have helped the game to do not elaborate the pillars in the hall (that are curves) when the player cannot see them... However, I fear that did not work very well.


Gig from mobile phone.

Yes, you're right, it's HINT texture, in the old Q3A version the green texture is the BOT_DO_NOT_ENTER, in the OA version (after switching PK3) the color is changed Tongue Tongue

For the aqueduct, i mean for BOTs roam, but i haven't checked it.

Wink
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:36:24 am by Akom74 » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #957 on: August 13, 2013, 02:39:35 pm »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?
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Akom74
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« Reply #958 on: August 13, 2013, 02:53:06 pm »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?

Don't know, Fromhell tell that's our maps are heavy for old systems.
Theorically my maps are finished, don't know if Gig is ready, and the others maybe are in holydays Tongue

Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #959 on: August 16, 2013, 03:52:34 pm »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?

This should patch the last couple of things:
jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_3.pk3
Fixes number of spawnpoints in dm1
Fixed flight graphical glitches, by replacing flight with haste; the geometry is complex enough as it is.
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fromhell
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« Reply #960 on: August 16, 2013, 06:13:44 pm »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?

Don't know, Fromhell tell that's our maps are heavy for old systems.
Theorically my maps are finished, don't know if Gig is ready, and the others maybe are in holydays Tongue

Wink
Don't worry about my benchmarks for this community pack. It's just a curiosity for relative performance (since no one here owns a computer with a heavy CPU+GPU bottleneck like i do Smiley).  I'd only take the performance seriously if it's say, a contribution for OA3 since i'm strict on speed for that now.

but even on modern hardware, gig's map is a system hitcher.  Culling fog isn't going to help, probably needs more clipbrushes on little detail parts so the bot navigation doesn't hitch on detail.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 06:18:25 pm by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
grey matter
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« Reply #961 on: August 17, 2013, 07:56:45 am »

(since no one here owns a computer with a heavy CPU+GPU bottleneck like i do Smiley)
I've got an old Compaq Armada E500 laptop with Intel Pentium 2 with 400 MHz and an some ATI Rage with 16 MB VRAM iirc, but it's not running any X Server right now Smiley
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« Reply #962 on: August 18, 2013, 04:34:44 pm »

400mhz already says "100mhz fsb" which is a world faster than p2 300 @ 66.  I'm guessing your onboard Rage is Rage128-based

Also I did test OA on a Rage Pro Turbo.... the rocket smoke really sucks in that (can't modulate alpha either so it doesn't dissipate) and for it to run fast I would have to do additively blended alternative effects.    Fortunately the effects to do alternatives for can be freely disabled by players since they're just the smoke trails and the gib trails.  I'd have to have subtractively blended gib trails to go with it as well. I'll probably change cgame and add a new cg_fxRage cvar for it.  Doing this would also bring a benefit to software rendered GL ICDs
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 04:42:58 pm by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Moixie
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« Reply #963 on: August 19, 2013, 08:25:35 am »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?

My ctf seems to be ready.

About the DM, I used animated textures for the jumps, added target_locations around the map and solved the domination problem, the map now supports dom and double dom gametypes. However, there is still this problem with Bots, they don't want to use the jumps and so on, the 2nd floor is almost not used by them. (botroam seems not to have any effect on them, they still don't want to risk their life for it. I don't want to use the botclips, seeing them walking on the void might be weird and traumatizing for players.)
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Gig
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« Reply #964 on: August 19, 2013, 09:18:13 am »

Hi guys, I'm back after some days of being completely offline.
Sorry for holding back the RC a few more days.
Give me some time to think about where I left:

About my map:
- I need feedback from anyone about noticing differences between V10 and V10bis (especially about bot-related "hitches"). I can see that for now, "v10bis" version has been downloaded ONE TIME only! Where are you, guys?  Sad
- I have to fix that brush bug in the aqueduct (thanks Akom).
- I'd like to have some gameplay feedback from Pelya (of course, anyone can give his own feedback!).
- I have to do more tries for optimizing bot performances (playerclip/hint/cluster brushes? How placed? Suggestions are welcome), but I require some time.
- Akom said he would have tried to do some changes himself... any news about that?

About Moixie's CTF map:
- I'm sorry I have not tried the latest version, I have to test it before I can say something more.
- I don't remember what I told about the version before that one (maybe I asked something about the decorative OA flags on walls where the OA logo looked like a little "compressed"? I should search for that post!)

About Moixie's DM map:
- Which "weight" value did you use for botroam items? Did you place them right above the jump-pads?
- IIRC, when I opened a previous version of the map in the editor (months ago), I saw that you used a different way to make the jumps (trigger_idontremember->target_push->target_position or info_notnull), than the one used by Akom and me (trigger_push->target_position). Maybe making a try switching to the other way? I don't know if that may help bots or not, it's just an idea...

About Jan's maps:
- I have not tried his latest versions yet.
- In that post, he states he fixed dm1 spawn points problem and workarounded dm3 graphical glitch problem... sounds good.
- ... but he does not mention the (quite small) glitch in his dm2 I noticed here, and the problem of players falling down from platforms when exiting teleporters.

Right now, I don't remember if there were more issues to fix... I should look some pages back in the thread more accurately, but I have to go now, I have to do some things for real life.

PS: In the meanwhile, I can imagine all the maps could be a little more tested in the "unusual" game types... I have the impression that most testing happened in ffa mode...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 11:46:09 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Akom74
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« Reply #965 on: August 19, 2013, 09:46:54 am »

Hi guys, I'm back after some days of being completely offline.
Sorry for holding back the RC a few more days.

Welcome back Tongue Cheesy

- Akom said he would have tried to do some changes himself... any news about that?

No way for now Tongue
....i'm working on OA_Cargo  Grin

Wink
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Moixie
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« Reply #966 on: August 19, 2013, 11:37:57 am »

About Moixie's CTF map:
- I'm sorry I have not tried the latest version, I have to test it before I can say something more.
- I don't remember what I told about the version before that one (maybe I asked something about the decorative OA flags on walls where the OA logo looked like a little "compressed"? I should search for that post!)

The last version was the same as the previous version. I just added some target locations and fixed the bugs found. There was a compressed Oa logo problem but it is actually fixed in the current version.

About Moixie's DM map:
- Which "weight" value did you use for botroam items? Did you place them right above the jump-pads?
- IIRC, when I opened a previous version of the map in the editor (months ago), I saw that you used a different way to make the jumps (trigger_idontremember->target_push->target_position or info_notnull), than the one used by Akom and me (trigger_push->target_position). Maybe making a try switching to the other way? I don't know if that may help bots or not, it's just an idea...

- I used the default value and I can't remember where I exactly place them, I'm going to try again with a big big value and placed above the jumpads.
- I used: Trigger_push -> Target_position, didn't there was another way, I'm going to try it too.

Ps: If it still doesn't work: I have already seen bots making rocket jumps, how does it exactly work ?
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Gig
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« Reply #967 on: August 19, 2013, 11:52:02 am »

- I used the default value and I can't remember where I exactly place them, I'm going to try again with a big big value and placed above the jumpads.
- I don't remember what's the default value for weight key, if you don't specify one. I'm not even sure there is a default value for that (I don't even know if item_botroam has got any effect or not, if you do not specify a weight value. Maybe yes, but I don't know).

Gig from cell phone.

PS: about bots making rocket jumps, during bspc I can see "n weapon jump areas" line. I think that bspc automatically detects where they are possible (in my map, I've seen bots making them inside the "hall of pillars" to reach the bonuses on pillars tops -before I connected the pillars tops and playerclipped them, allowing bots to actually move between pillar tops-. Now they don't need anymore to self-waste their health to reach that health bonus... I don't know if occasionally they still rocket jump there or just use the jumppads ALL times). I don't know if it is somehow possible to manually "suggest" weapon jump areas. I think that however bots don't RJ them often, if there exist other routes to reach their destination. Not sure, maybe (togheter with some more of such stuff) Q3 radiant manual says (approximately) the maximium height bots would rj (you know, also for standard jumps, bots would only step on/jump on lower obstacles than what human players can).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 12:11:20 pm by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Moixie
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« Reply #968 on: August 20, 2013, 03:17:25 am »

I set the maximum value of the botroam and it works ! Unfortunately, if bots tries to reach the jump, they fall in the void the most of the time. After 2 minutes, the subject suicided 4 times.

ps: Made more tests, bots aren't looking for the botroam: I placed a item_botroam on one jump whereas they try to jump on every jumps. However, they always fail the same way: they hit the bottom left corner of it and then fall.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 03:39:20 am by Moixie » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #969 on: August 20, 2013, 03:36:57 am »

I set the maximum value of the botroam and it works ! Unfortunately, if bots tries to reach the jump, they fall in the void the most of the time. After 2 minutes, the subject suicided 4 times.
Maybe you may make a try placing three (or four?) small "donotenter" or "botclip" invisible brushes around outer borders of the jump-pads... trying to "guide" them into the "good" part. Maybe you may even make a sort of "funnel" with standard (visible) brushes, if you prefer.

Note: I've never understood how does the game determine an "area" from donotenter brushes (how does it distinguish between the "outer-ok" and "inner-avoid" areas). I don't know if three (or four?) donotenter brushes around the jump-pads would tell bots to do not fall down from it, or to do not enter the jumppad! I've not used "donotenter" in my map, also considering it does not have deadly pits.

Or maybe you may try enlarging the whole jump-pad... or maybe just enlarging the jump-pad's trigger brush.

PS: There is another thing I'd like to do in my map, but I've never tried it before. I'd like to add the sound of water. I can imagine that sounds can be emitted by a certain point (target_speaker entity?), so probably I would need to place many of these points if I would want to make the sound heard on all the aqueduct.... uhm... then, probably I will just place one, where the water falls vertically. What do you think about this? Suggestions? Or is it possible to make a "long brush" to emit a sound?
If someone knows existing OA sounds that would fit, could please tell me?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:00:21 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Moixie
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« Reply #970 on: August 20, 2013, 04:57:59 am »

PS: There is another thing I'd like to do in my map, but I've never tried it before. I'd like to add the sound of water. I can imagine that sounds can be emitted by a certain point (target_speaker entity?), so probably I would need to place many of these points if I would want to make the sound heard on all the aqueduct.... uhm... then, probably I will just place one, where the water falls vertically. What do you think about this? Suggestions? Or is it possible to make a "long brush" to emit a sound?
If someone knows existing OA sounds that would fit, could please tell me?

You can connect the speaker to a trigger_multiple, everytime a player would enter in the trigger zone, he would hear the sound of water. Then, what about: Pak0 > sound > weapons > railgun > rg_hum.wav
or: Pak0 > sound > world > waterfall.wav

I set the maximum value of the botroam and it works ! Unfortunately, if bots tries to reach the jump, they fall in the void the most of the time. After 2 minutes, the subject suicided 4 times.
Maybe you may make a try placing three (or four?) small "donotenter" or "botclip" invisible brushes around outer borders of the jump-pads... trying to "guide" them into the "good" part. Maybe you may even make a sort of "funnel" with standard (visible) brushes, if you prefer.

Note: I've never understood how does the game determine an "area" from donotenter brushes (how does it distinguish between the "outer-ok" and "inner-avoid" areas). I don't know if three (or four?) donotenter brushes around the jump-pads would tell bots to do not fall down from it, or to do not enter the jumppad! I've not used "donotenter" in my map, also considering it does not have deadly pits.

I try it right now.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:33:54 am by Moixie » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #971 on: August 20, 2013, 05:05:46 am »

Moxie, I quickly tried your CTF map.

- Flags on walls still give me that "vertically compressed/horizontally streched" feel. Maybe it's the OA texture/shader that is not perfect?
- In oneflag mode, isn't the white flag floating too much suspended from the floor?  Undecided
- Location names:
-- Maybe you may distinguish "Hall" in "Red hall" and "Blue hall" (now both halls simply say "hall")
-- There are some points that say "Around the Base", and other that say "Around the Red B". I would change them to "Around Red Base", "Red Base (upper)", or just "Red Base" (same goes for blue, of course).
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« Reply #972 on: August 20, 2013, 05:25:51 am »

You could probably use this. PDsounds adapted.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Moixie
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« Reply #973 on: August 20, 2013, 06:53:29 am »

I set the maximum value of the botroam and it works ! Unfortunately, if bots tries to reach the jump, they fall in the void the most of the time. After 2 minutes, the subject suicided 4 times.
Maybe you may make a try placing three (or four?) small "donotenter" or "botclip" invisible brushes around outer borders of the jump-pads... trying to "guide" them into the "good" part. Maybe you may even make a sort of "funnel" with standard (visible) brushes, if you prefer.

Note: I've never understood how does the game determine an "area" from donotenter brushes (how does it distinguish between the "outer-ok" and "inner-avoid" areas). I don't know if three (or four?) donotenter brushes around the jump-pads would tell bots to do not fall down from it, or to do not enter the jumppad! I've not used "donotenter" in my map, also considering it does not have deadly pits.

I try it right now.

I give up.
If the "do not enter" brushes are too permissive, bots fall in the void. If they're not permissive enought, they don't dare jumping. Apparently the only ways to do it, are making a botclip bridge or modifying the jump position so it's easier to get on it.

Are bots really important ? After all, they still can spawn on the upper part but the most of the action doesn't take place there, even if they could I don't think they'd take the jumpads, they'd rather stay at the ground floor.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 06:56:48 am by Moixie » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #974 on: August 20, 2013, 07:22:34 am »

Are bots really important ?
For a pack which aims to be distributed in practically all the same places where OA is allowed (think about being included into package repositories of official distros), yes, they are.

Let me take a look at your map, perhaps I might solve that issue. I suppose you have uploaded it into this thread, isn't it?
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