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Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 493649 times)
Gig
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« Reply #975 on: August 20, 2013, 07:54:58 am »

Moxie, you said that bots touch one of the corners of the jump-pad before falling down, right? Then why don't you extend the trigger brush, to make sure people will activate the jump before touching its surface?

You can connect the speaker to a trigger_multiple, everytime a player would enter in the trigger zone, he would hear the sound of water. Then, what about: Pak0 > sound > weapons > railgun > rg_hum.wav
or: Pak0 > sound > world > waterfall.wav
Would that allow the volume to fade out when I leave the area, or will suddently stop when the audio file ends, when I will not touch the trigger anymore?

PS: Attached, a screenshot of the "compressed/streched logo" in wall flags in Moixie ctf map.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:38:52 am by Gig » Logged

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Moixie
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« Reply #976 on: August 20, 2013, 08:40:59 am »

Would that allow the volume to fade out when I leave the area, or will suddently stop when the audio file ends, when I will not touch the trigger anymore?

I fear the volume doesn't fade out, the loop ends and the sound stops once its finished. I'm not sure, you should do some tests.

Are bots really important ?

For a pack which aims to be distributed in practically all the same places where OA is allowed (think about being included into package repositories of official distros), yes, they are.

Let me take a look at your map, perhaps I might solve that issue. I suppose you have uploaded it into this thread, isn't it?

Anyway, I moved the jump and extend the ground floor platform a bit: It solved the problem !
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:58:13 am by Moixie » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #977 on: August 20, 2013, 08:48:07 am »

How's your work, people? Are we ready for our first RC?

This should patch the last couple of things:
jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_3.pk3
Fixes number of spawnpoints in dm1
Fixed flight graphical glitches, by replacing flight with haste; the geometry is complex enough as it is.
I fear that nobody tested these versions of Jan's DM1 and DM3 maps yet: IIRC, nobody yet told that the pk3 has been not correctly build (it does contain an "oajgdm1_3" folder before the "maps" folder).

Attached to this post, you can find a "fixed" pk3 for it (included maps: oajgm1beta4 and oajgdm3beta). Having a previous version of the maps (I can guess OACMP Beta 3) is required, because textures are not included.

By the way, Jan, what about that thing of moving your custom textures/shaders out from the "common" folder?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:51:03 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Gig
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« Reply #978 on: August 20, 2013, 09:45:46 am »

I've just done a try with a map_restart (while with g_gametype 0 -FFA-), counting initial telefrags while playing with 14-16 players in the arena:

* oa_akomdm1: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomdm2: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomdm3: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomdm4: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomdm5: 0 telefrags
* moixie dm map: 0 telefrags
* udestruction: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomctf1: 0 telefrags
* oajgdctf1:0 telefrags
** moixie ctf map: 0 telefrags
* oajgdm2: about 4 telefrags - WARNING
** oajgdm1beta4: about 3 telefrags - WARNING
** oajgdm3beta: about 6 telefrags - WARNING

* = tested version from OACMP beta 3
** = tested latest updated version

Test repeated with g_gametype 4 (CTF... I know that some OACMP DM maps do not support CTF, but however also some other gametypes use CTF spawn points, if available):
** oajgdm1beta4: about 2 telefrags - warning
* oajgdm2: about 6 telefrags - warning
** oajgdm3beta: about 5 telefrags - warning
* oa_akomdm1, dm2, dm3, dm4, dm5: 0 telefrags
* oa_akomctf1: 0 telefrags
* Moixie DM map: 0 telefrags
** Moixie CTF map: 0 telefrags
* oajgctf1: 0 telefrags
* udestruction: 0 telefrags

Other things (not related to the test above, but still related to OACMP maps, of course!):
- Some maps (Jan's DM maps?) still miss the "message" key for worldspawn (for "long" map name during map loading).
- Some maps (Jan and Moixie maps?) still miss background music
- In Moxie's CTF map, maybe some red and blue colored decorations may also be placed in lower places, to better identify the base where you are when the flag isn't there, without the need to look at the ceiling.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 10:10:20 am by Gig » Logged

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Moixie
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« Reply #979 on: August 20, 2013, 11:01:11 am »

- Some maps (Jan and Moixie maps?) still miss background music

How to add it ?

Moixie, I quickly tried your CTF map.

- Flags on walls still give me that "vertically compressed/horizontally streched" feel. Maybe it's the OA texture/shader that is not perfect?
- In oneflag mode, isn't the white flag floating too much suspended from the floor?  Undecided
- Location names:
-- Maybe you may distinguish "Hall" in "Red hall" and "Blue hall" (now both halls simply say "hall")
-- There are some points that say "Around the Base", and other that say "Around the Red B". I would change them to "Around Red Base", "Red Base (upper)", or just "Red Base" (same goes for blue, of course).

everything is fixed.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #980 on: August 20, 2013, 11:03:42 am »

In the Worldspawn entity, you add "message" "nameofthemap" where nameofthemap is your map's long name (Tongue) and "music" "music/OAxx.ogg", where xx is a number from 01-14.
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Moixie
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« Reply #981 on: August 20, 2013, 11:39:05 am »

In the Worldspawn entity, you add "message" "nameofthemap" where nameofthemap is your map's long name (Tongue) and "music" "music/OAxx.ogg", where xx is a number from 01-14.

Done !
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Gig
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« Reply #982 on: August 21, 2013, 06:50:44 am »

In the Worldspawn entity, you add "message" "nameofthemap" where nameofthemap is your map's long name (:P) and "music" "music/OAxx.ogg", where xx is a number from 01-14.
About music files, I don't think that all numbers between 01 and 14 are currently (0.8.8) working. With a quick look, it looks like pak6-patch088.pk3 is the only pk3 file containing the "music" folder... and the only files in it are:
OA01.ogg
OA02.ogg
OA06.ogg
OA07.ogg
OA08.ogg
OA13.ogg
OA14.ogg

Trivia: I think that the "music" key also works if you do not specify the file extension (example: "music" "music/OA01").

PS: Anyone else tested Jan's maps?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 06:53:23 am by Gig » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #983 on: August 21, 2013, 07:25:01 am »

Sorry, I'm being extremely lazy lately (also, some IRL stuff).

@Gig:
I've quickly tested Udestruction v10, I did not notice any difference in FPS between V10 and V10-bis, I've used 5 bots.
Second grapple hook is a welcome addition.
Secret room with BFG should now be reachable through those small windows on the sides, but they require you to crouch, and there's no crouch button on mobile OA port Sad Maybe you could replace those windows with a hole in the roof, so you can rocketjump there, or somehow jump from aqueduct, with some small bumps in the wall between them to help you reach it?
Other than that, no complaints.

Quote
* oajgctf1: 0 telefrags
Yay, adding those 12 spawnpoints wasn't useless after all.
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Gig
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« Reply #984 on: August 21, 2013, 08:36:22 am »

Secret room with BFG should now be reachable through those small windows on the sides, but they require you to crouch, and there's no crouch button on mobile OA port Sad Maybe you could replace those windows with a hole in the roof, so you can rocketjump there, or somehow jump from aqueduct, with some small bumps in the wall between them to help you reach it?
No, they are not intended for entering. When I enlarged them (to better explain the light in the room), some versions ago, I placed "playerclip" caps in the windows. Maybe I could place small bars to make more clear you cannot pass through those windows.

PS: what about the red base? Is it ok now?
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pelya
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« Reply #985 on: August 21, 2013, 09:08:02 am »

Red base is pretty much the same for me, but I've used to it already, so it's okay. I don't remember - was there two jumppads on the ground before, or just one? Anyway, I do not notice any issues with it anymore (although I would still prefer to have flag at the roof, not in the middle of building).
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Gig
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« Reply #986 on: August 21, 2013, 09:58:36 am »

There are always been two jumppads on the ground floor there.

About the first floor (the second for who's American, right? However, the middle floor), in V9 I enlarged the space to walk without stepping on the central jumppad... and I added the plasmagun for better defending the base. That was done trying to follow your previous feedback...
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pelya
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« Reply #987 on: August 21, 2013, 11:05:22 am »

Ah, that's what happened Smiley because I've suddenly stopped to jump to the roof at random when trying to reach the flag. So it's okay now.
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Gig
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« Reply #988 on: August 21, 2013, 11:11:46 am »

I can guess you did not read the (quite extended) changelog of V9, right?  Undecided
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pelya
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« Reply #989 on: August 21, 2013, 11:13:15 am »

I've read it, but that was two weeks ago  Roll Eyes
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Gig
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« Reply #990 on: August 22, 2013, 04:15:24 am »

I've done a few tests, and I think that I will only place the water sound where it does fall vertically. (UPDATE: Maybe I changed my mind, see below)

Fromhell, if I wish to use your fountain2.wav file, what I have to write in my map's readme file, to mention its author?

And what if I wish to edit it? For example, to make its volume higher, or to mix it with OA's "waterfall" sound? Which file format would be a valid "source" for that work? And which program should I use for that file format?

Well, I can guess that I may "fuse" the two sounds also by simply placing two target_speaker entities one next to the other, but for tweaking sound volume, I have to modify the sound file itself, right?

UPDATE: I've done another test... placing various (non trigger-related) target_speaker entities repeating the sound along the aquduct does not seem as bad as I thought... It may be a feasible way. I would just need to make Fromhell's sound volume lower on the aqueduct (currently, it's heard also too far from the aqueduct, I fear), and higher where the water falls.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 04:35:36 am by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #991 on: August 22, 2013, 05:08:53 am »

but even on modern hardware, gig's map is a system hitcher.  Culling fog isn't going to help, probably needs more clipbrushes on little detail parts so the bot navigation doesn't hitch on detail.

Which kinds of clip? Fullclip or also playerclip may fit? I mean for the bot logic simplification purpose...

May flagging something more as "detail" help? Currenlty, the only things flagged as "detail" are the incorporeal "stripes" (sparks)...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 05:19:55 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #992 on: August 22, 2013, 05:24:35 am »

Botclip and playerclip? So players won't get stuck on those areas as well.

About the sound, IICR, you can regulate the volume from the entity's properties.
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pelya
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« Reply #993 on: August 22, 2013, 11:11:28 am »

Quote from: pelya
BTW can we please use that one-way grate above jumppad in Moixie's DM map instead of that trapdoor?

Of course it's possible, just place a single_patch_mesh Cheesy
Just select a brush and go in the curve menu' and select single patch mesh.
one side it's solid and the other is not solid.

Wink
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Moixie
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« Reply #994 on: August 22, 2013, 12:02:58 pm »

BTW can we please use that one-way grate above jumppad in Moixie's DM map instead of that trapdoor?

There's no way. I want to keep my trapdoor !

However, I wonder if a jumper on the ground at each corner wouldn't be better (as you can see on the picture in attachments). It would solve the bots problem once for all and the upper floor could become more interesting. But there are already some jumpers at 5 metters of them, should I change their trajectory, what if they led to the middle of the map ? If I added these jumpers, this would change the map's gameplay. I really don't know.

Ps: Or a Teleporter ?

« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:00:36 am by Moixie » Logged
Akom74
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« Reply #995 on: August 22, 2013, 12:07:41 pm »

BTW can we please use that one-way grate above jumppad in Moixie's DM map instead of that trapdoor?

There's no way. I want to keep my trapdoor !

However, I wonder if a jumper on the ground at each corner wouldn't be better (as you can see on the picture in attachments). It would solve the bots problem once for all and the upper floor could become more interesting. But there are already some jumpers at 5 metters of them, should I change their trajectory, what if they led to the middle of the map ? If I added these jumpers, this would change the map's gameplay. I really don't know.


This can be a solution, unfortunately BOTs tend to go where they want and not where the mapper want Tongue Cheesy

We (mapers) have to make many tricks to make the BOTs roam everywhere in our maps.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #996 on: August 23, 2013, 05:23:04 am »

Under Destruction beta V11 is available, attached to this post.

Note: This time I've not included the "textures" folder in the package, hence you need to have a previous version (udestructionV10, or just having OACMP beta 3).

This time, maybe I succeded in fixing bot-related "hitches". PLEASE TEST THE MAP AND TELL ME.

First, I added "player clip" to places where I thought it could work to make geometry a little less complex for bot roaming... but there were not so many places... so I added also many "botclip" brushes, around ALL curved polygons. I placed octagonal botclip brushes around all columns (see screenshot.. the squared playerclip brushes at the top of the colums are something that I placed various versions ago, to help bots and players to stay on the colums... I don't know if I should touch them), and I placed manually-shaped (with a lot of "dragging edges" work) botclip brushes around (inside) all the outer walls of the arena.
However, after this huge work, BSPC compiling did only detect about 30 areas less (I can guess 4020 instead of 4050 isn't a big change).... D'oh!

Then I placed two (2) HUGE "cluster portal" walls that arbitrarily divide the map into four sections of more or less the same size. And this seems to have done the trick. Before, BSPC said it created 1 portals and 2 clusters... now it says it creates 59 portals and 3 clusters... but the interesting thing is that "hitches" seem to be a lot less!!! But I need your feelings, too!

I'm thinking about making a v11bis version, trying what would happen if I remove the botclip walls around (inside) the curved walls of the arena, due to the fact they are not so elegantly made (two of them -I don't know which ones- even caused a couple of "duplicate plane" more errors during BSPC), and due to the fact that bots may be "pushed" against such invisible walls (that is some places are not so near to the real walls - check yourself, source .map is included, as usual) by explosions, and that may be not so nice.

Note: map compiled from Q3Radiant, and then using its stock BSPC for aas.

.arena file still has got the same number of bots. Please tell me if it's okay, or if I should remove one or two.

-------------------------
UDESTRUCTION V11 - Changelog against UDESTRUCTION V10

1) Fixed the brush problem Akom found on the aqueduct
2) Swapped a "border" texture on the warehouse with one of the house.
3) Added some vertical bars in the windows of the BFG building
4) Added playerclip where I could
5) Added botclip around all curved polygons
6) Added some vertical bars (and a weaponclip) in the hole where the water falls vertically (to do not reveal the trick if someone tried to throw in a grenade). The problem is that now inside that hole is too dark, and I have to invent something for this problem.
7) A few small brush edits.
8) Added water sounds (some target_speaker entities placed at a -more or less- certain distance each other... do you think it's nice enough?) on the aqueduct, and also a different one where the water falls vertically (waterfall.wav). For the moment, /sound/gig01/fountain2.wav and /sound/gig01/waterfall.wav are just exact copies of the PublicDomain sound Fromhell posted some posts ago, and of the waterfall sound already existing in OpenArena. I think I should tweak their volume... it seems to me they are not loud enough... could you please test (with your usual s_musicvolume value and without music), and tell me your opinions about that? Neon_Knight said he thought it is possible to regulate volume from the entities properties, but it seems to me that entity description in editor does NOT mention a "volume" key. I have not tried to create it anyway... but I think it's not supported. Please tell me your opinions.
9) Added huge, invisible "cluster portal" walls that divides the map, for lighter bot logic. Do you notice less "hitches" than before, or more or less the same?
10) In the readme, explained how to prevent offhand grapple from spawning, if one does not want it.
--------------------------------------


PS: Jan's maps still need to be downloaded by someone else.

PPS: In my map, I think in V12 I will place a botroam item next the the entering of the cistern (I've noticed bots do not enter there as some months ago did, for unknown reason), and a spawn point on the top of it (to discourage people from camping in the cistern).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 06:25:08 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Akom74
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« Reply #997 on: August 23, 2013, 07:33:41 am »

@Gig: an huge "cluster portal" is useless,  in normal maps it's used for minor engine stress, don't know for BOTs, maybe help but i'm not sure.....

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #998 on: August 23, 2013, 01:12:19 pm »

In fact, clusterportals aren't even used that way. In order to work, they have a set of restrictions.

Here's a .map file with some bot optimizations. Check how clusterportals are used. You use botclip to encase areas (and surround heavily complex geometry) and then use 16-px clusterportals to tell bots where they could pass.
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Gig
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« Reply #999 on: August 25, 2013, 04:12:18 am »

@Gig: an huge "cluster portal" is useless,  in normal maps it's used for minor engine stress, don't know for BOTs, maybe help but i'm not sure.....

Wink

Akom, are you confusing clusterportals with areaportals or hint brushes maybe? Clusterportals are about bot navigation, while areaportals and hint brushses are about VIS... isn't it?
From Q3R Manual:
http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm#_Toc475185841
http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm#_Toc475185884

Tomorrow I'll take a look to Neon_Knight's test.

Bye!

PS: who wants to give feedback about v11 is welcome... Smiley
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 04:29:35 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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