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pelya
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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2013, 07:39:21 am »

Creating new map editor is a huge piece of work indeed, however automatic map generation tool - not so much.
UfoAI for example has a "random map assembly" system, where the map is assembled from pre-rendered map pieces on the fly (typically between 4 and 16 map pieces).
Of course the lighting at the seams isn't that natural, but it's okay for UfoAI, with it's bird's eye camera, also they design map pieces in such a way that seams are at the same height and have the same light intensity at the borders, so they not very noticeable. For OA though it will be very well visible, because you'll be looking at the seams from the ground level.
I believe it's still possible (not very hard) to create a tool which will split a .map file from pre-assembled square pieces, you'll have to compile it to .BSP/.AAS though.
Also, it will be difficult to create maps which have some vertical variety, not just one big flat floor with some random walls.

The easiest we can probably do is take Akom's OA_Gateway, and randomize teleporter targets on the fly  Grin

Screenshots of UfoAI map tiles, screenshots of assembled maps
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Suicizer
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2013, 10:24:00 am »

What? A map editor integrated directly into the game? I'm not Fromhell or Sago007, but however I think that's really impractical, for various reasons.
- Would require A LOT of time: working on that would mean having no time for other aspects of development of the game
- There are already map editors (*Radiant) programs... Why another one?
- IIRC, Fromhell wants to make OA3 user interface more friendly also for devices that do not use a mouse.y How to map without a mouse?
- Fromhell hypotized some kind of character customization, but of course not an "integrated Blender". At the same way, one might hypotize some way to alter existing maps (e.g. the already supported "disable_" and "replace_" hidden CVARs, to prevent all the items of a certain kind from spawning in the map, or replacing them with something else)... but a complete map editor inside the game really seems to much to me.
- One automatic map generation tool, maybe? Where you just select an approx map size, map theme, how many jump-pads, how many teleports, how many weapons and bonuses, and it automatically/randomly creates a .map file, that you can later fine-tune with a standard .map editor? That would be an huge work anyway, and probably it would better exist as an external tool.
- A simplified map editor for beginners, where you have a simple interface with a series of pre-defined objects that you can place in a grid (like Stunts - 4D Sports Driving track editor)? Nice... that may introduce new people to mapping... but again, I think that would be too much work for our small number of developers. Maybe someone may take the idea and create it as an external tool or as a mod... However, I don't think the problem of OpenArena is the lack of third-party maps to play on...
To sum up, I don't see it as an easy to implement or necessary feature. But I repeat, I'm not Fromhell or Sago.

The benefits of an integrated map editor is that you can play directly on the map without the need to port it.
You can also map with several people editing on just 1 map real-time. This is actually a very community supportive feature as a lot of map-editing clans on Sauerbraten prove so (which results in a playing and editing community that both need each other to remain while still operating individuallyoften).
Anyway, my first comment today wasn't meant to be feature request related.
@Akom74,
Make sure there is more depth in the layout, like letting the players move into the machinery room (maybe even from outside like a hole, as if the ship is about to sink?), Then you coukd let them come back to the main surface of the ship again via the control room.
The cargo loads are putted to symmetrical to me. Can't you fill  1 or 2 paths with another load or an atribute to get on top of the cargo.
 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 10:56:07 am by Suicizer » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2013, 02:34:51 pm »

@Akom74,
Make sure there is more depth in the layout, like letting the players move into the machinery room (maybe even from outside like a hole, as if the ship is about to sink?), Then you coukd let them come back to the main surface of the ship again via the control room.
The cargo loads are putted to symmetrical to me. Can't you fill  1 or 2 paths with another load or an atribute to get on top of the cargo.

Thanks for suggestions, but the bottom of the ship is too tiny for complicated passages, and the structure is triangular. In the next release i will insert the .map file and you will see.
Today i've worked a lot with brushes and i'm searching for an appropriate jumppad, but i think i made it myself Tongue
My idea is to leave the ship as it is, and work at the docks to place some buildings and passages. Unfortunately my inspiration is a bit over in this days.... Sad
In the ship i've inserted only the passage from the bottom as suggested by Neon_Knight, but the space is small.

Tomorrow (italian time) i think to give you (all) a new version vith the latest changes.

Wink
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pelya
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2013, 03:08:40 pm »

I've tried this map and it's good. But I really want to go to that pier with crane, but cannot reach it even with a rocket jump.
Could you please tilt the ship floor 10-15 degrees to the side, so it won't be so flat? Or even add a slow waves that tilt the ship from side to side? I guess it's impossible though.Also, I would like some way to reach top of crates without rocket jump. And a passage to the captain deck/crane tower. And maybe a rope or chain to the pier, which you can walk to reach the pier.
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Akom74
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 03:15:23 pm »

I've tried this map and it's good. But I really want to go to that pier with crane, but cannot reach it even with a rocket jump.
Could you please tilt the ship floor 10-15 degrees to the side, so it won't be so flat? Or even add a slow waves that tilt the ship from side to side? I guess it's impossible though.Also, I would like some way to reach top of crates without rocket jump. And a passage to the captain deck/crane tower. And maybe a rope or chain to the pier, which you can walk to reach the pier.

Ehi, calm down Tongue  Grin Grin
There's too much things that it's impossible to do with Radiant.
In the next version the docks are playable and you can go upside the crane Cheesy
You can also go upside the captain tower and grab a railgun and snipe everyone. A railgun it's also over the big crane.

....stay tuned.... Tongue

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2013, 12:46:38 am »

You can also go upside the captain tower and grab a railgun and snipe everyone. A railgun it's also over the big crane.
I'm not sure it's a nice idea for gameplay, to place the railgun spawning directly in the camping spot. Risk of Q3CTF4-like promblems...
Possible solutions include placing the railgun not exactly there, to force the camper to leave the camping spot (at least for a short time) when he requires ammo.... or placing a quick way to reach that camping spot (that may be accessed by two different ways?) by passing at the back of the camper (if he's aiming at the big part of the map, he should not be able to also protect the way to reach him).
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2013, 05:22:29 am »

If there's a lot of place to get cover, and enough room to move, a Railgun in that spot shouldn't hurt the gameplay to much.
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Akom74
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2013, 08:27:50 am »

UPDATE !!

       

Here is the Download Link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

Updates:

1) Added 8 jumppad to leave the ship e jump to the docks and viceversa..
2) Now BOTs roam all the map.
3) Builded a new section near the crane.
4) Now you can go at the top of the captain tower.
5) Modified the ship with a hole and an higher part.
6) One container now is ampty, but with the quad Tongue
7) Other minor stuff Cheesy

Know Issues:

1) The sky is always black (i have to change it...)
2) Now the map seem a big box, i don't know how change it....... i've to think at something...
3) .....don't know, maybe other things but now i don't remember...

Wink
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 08:45:19 am by Akom74 » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2013, 09:23:31 am »

You don't really need to surround it with walls, I would prefer transparent noclip region, and just seeing the sky instead of walls, even if it is black.
The map is big, so it does not look weird that you cannot go past the border.
Or, alternately, going past the border will make you fall to death, but you'll have a chance to see an elephants, whales and turtle below Wink .
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Akom74
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2013, 09:42:59 am »

You don't really need to surround it with walls, I would prefer transparent noclip region, and just seeing the sky instead of walls, even if it is black.
The map is big, so it does not look weird that you cannot go past the border.
Or, alternately, going past the border will make you fall to death, but you'll have a chance to see an elephants, whales and turtle below Wink .

Maybe you're right, i'll try to remove the big walls and place some borders.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2013, 10:15:50 am »

Tried.. nice!  Smiley

Things I can suggest:
1) You may keep the outer walls if you wish... just place something that seems a big door in front (or behind the back? Maybe better in front) of the ship (a theorical way to exit the dock to reach the sea).

2) When you are in the water, you have no bonuses and one way out only. And you are a very easy target! Hence:
2.1) What about placing a "speed" powerup (I don't know if that affects swimming speed, but probably yes) in the water?
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
2.3) What about placing some small "service ramps" that, from the docks, reach the water? To have more ways to get out of the water...

3) What about making some machinery in the dock moving? Making the robot move, and/or making the crane moving a container up and down (or having a container swinging as a pendolum, as in the Hibernia map)?

4) What about allowing to pass between some containers on the ship, like in the previous version? Not all of them, just some.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:18:33 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2013, 10:44:12 am »

1) You may keep the outer walls if you wish... just place something that seems a big door in front (or behind the back? Maybe better in front) of the ship (a theorical way to exit the dock to reach the sea).

I will do something, stay tuned.....  Tongue

Quote from: Gig
2) When you are in the water, you have no bonuses and one way out only. And you are a very easy target! Hence:

Yes, you are right. I forgot to place some items in the water, maybe a power suite, the water is so big area, many times you get hurted before you can go outside

Quote from: Gig
2.1) What about placing a "speed" powerup (I don't know if that affects swimming speed, but probably yes) in the water?

Don't know, but i think that with the speed powerup the speed increase even in the water....

Quote from: Gig
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.

The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.

Quote from: Gig
2.3) What about placing some small "service ramps" that, from the docks, reach the water? To have more ways to get out of the water...

This is possible, i will see what to do.

Quote from: Gig
3) What about making some machinery in the dock moving? Making the robot move, and/or making the crane moving a container up and down (or having a container swinging as a pendolum, as in the Hibernia map)?

Unfortunately the VIS don't work and i have to compile the map without it, but the relight process mix the entity and place it (all) at the center of the map. The train work because it start at the center and follow its path, as you can see there's no door and no rotating objects.
(same problem with oa_gateway)

Quote from: Gig
4) What about allowing to pass between some containers on the ship, like in the previous version? Not all of them, just some.

I will.

@ALL: In this release you can find in the sources folder, the original .map file, there is an error, fixed now. (i haven't see it before the release, sorry.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2013, 11:03:50 am »

2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.
If you think it's necessary the water in the pit inside the ship to be lower than than the rest of the water....
... however, that seems against communaticating vases... isn't it?
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Akom74
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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2013, 11:40:05 am »

2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.
If you think it's necessary the water in the pit inside the ship to be lower than than the rest of the water....
... however, that seems against communaticating vases... isn't it?

No communaticating vases, it's not real this  Q3A/OA physic  Tongue
However, look at the -map file in the editor and you will see Cheesy Cheesy

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2013, 03:11:49 pm »

Quick look at the newer version again.

Well, the map is progressing. It's way more interesting than the past version, indeed. And it grew big.

Remember that every strong area (camping areas, for example) should have a countermeasure (and if possible, many ways to enter, not just one) to keep the map balanced. Talking about camping, the tower is good and well, but there isn't much place to get cover once someone gets to the top. Right now as the map it is, you pick the Railgun, run to the tower and start shooting to get free cheap frags. This becomes worse in Instagib mode: in the absence of every weapon sans the Railgun, with the lack of splash damage weapons, hiding/cover places become more important, and IG is already a very played mode in OA.

A possible solution for this in All Weapons is to place a Nailgun right at the bottom of the tower (it's already protected from the camper's view) and replace that jumppad with a teleport. It might be quicker to reach to the top, but it's less predictable for the camper to notice it. The Nailgun then can be used (and it's more effective in this than the Shotgun) to neutralize the camper in question. For Instagib you might want to place a func_static door blocking the entrance to the tower's top, so such position can't be abused.
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Akom74
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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2013, 03:36:12 pm »

I hate campers !!!  Grin Grin

I'll modify the map as you suggested, and many more little changes......
......stay tuned.....

Wink
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Bane
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« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2013, 06:51:37 pm »

Hi
Thought I would pop back in with an idea how about something like a big skull island (see pic below ) as a kind of background image with some red mist like the ship got lost in the Bermuda triangle
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Gig
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« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2013, 02:18:08 am »

Akom, for your compiling tests... what about trying Q3Map2Build tool?

I've just re-packaged it, adding required DLL files and BSPC, that were missing in the original package.

http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/tools/q3map2build1_0_25_withDLL_BSPC.zip

I also added a readme file about the re-packaging.

Let me know if that works.  Smiley
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Akom74
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« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2013, 03:05:27 am »

Akom, for your compiling tests... what about trying Q3Map2Build tool?

I've just re-packaged it, adding required DLL files and BSPC, that were missing in the original package.

http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/tools/q3map2build1_0_25_withDLL_BSPC.zip

I also added a readme file about the re-packaging.

Let me know if that works.  Smiley

Thanks Gig, but it gives me an error, it say that zlib1.dll was missing... Sad
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Gig
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« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2013, 03:23:04 am »

Ooops, it looks like I missed it. Zip updated, try downloading it again now.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:56:54 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2013, 03:30:34 am »

Ooops, it looks like I missed it. Zip updated, try downloading it again now.

Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
It work, but gives me an error, MAX_VISIBILITY_EXCEEDED.

Sad
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Gig
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« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2013, 03:45:52 am »

Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
How?
I'd like to know if the package I did this time works out-of-the-box...
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Akom74
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« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2013, 04:19:15 am »

Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
How?
I'd like to know if the package I did this time works out-of-the-box...

Yes, it work, i've download the upgraded version, but your zlib1.dll is old than mine.
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Akom74
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« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2013, 12:27:17 pm »

Update !  Grin

Here is the newest version, take a look and play with BOTs.

       

Download Link 7,92 MB (8.314.880 byte):
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

Until the opening of the official Thread of OACMP Volume 2, this is my last version of this map.

However, comments are welcome  Tongue

EDIT: Solved a script error (my bad - Thanks Gig). Now you can see the good sky.

Wink
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 01:44:19 am by Akom74 » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2013, 12:31:35 am »

Uhm... I see a black sky (it looks like it does conflict with some other sky shader... from oacmp maybe?).

Apart that, the map is nice... maybe some weapons are not easy to find... but maybe it's just time to learn their locations. However, you may consider adding some more weapons (but no more railguns).

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