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fromhell
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« on: January 22, 2014, 10:28:28 AM »

Just brainfarting here...

Team spawn entities would probably need a "stage" key in them so they'd be selected depending on the mission progress, probably on both sides.

trigger_counter would definitely be necessary for objectives that require hitting multiple switches and destroying some things.

trigger_stage would have to be done too, to determine what would trigger the next objective/stage for the attackers.  Other triggers would have to target this (like simple trigger_once's for "Attackers have breached the X!").

info_intermission_ending and trigger_ending would be done if the attackers did finish their job so there's a scene of moving entities or something exploding or something.

Auto turrets? I'm not so sure.

The hard part would probably be swapping the teams at the end of a round, having to reset the scores - as well as resetting every objective entity and clearing decals - and maybe getting the AI to do the objectives, though i'm not sure how hard that would be.




AND BEFORE ANYONE POSTS, NO, "ASSAULT Q3" IS NOT THE SAME, THAT'S JUST A BUNCH OF BATCHFILES AND BAD MAPS PUT TOGETHER WITH A BAD ICON PRETENDING TO BE ASSAULT
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 10:32:45 AM by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 10:32:31 AM »

I don't know, maybe such things should be reserved for the Missionpack?
In fact, what about reimagining the MP as Coop mixed with AS-based maps? In fact, one may also incorporate Defrag runs in it.

I would leave OA for all things MP related. Like the UT of the pack, while the Missionpack itself could mix Assault (mission based matches), Defrag (obstacle speedrun based matches) and Coop (connect the AS matches and have a predefined team going through all the missions, like the DMSP of UT3).
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fromhell
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2014, 08:10:58 PM »

"Missionpack" at the moment only concerns an interface change.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 09:29:52 PM »

I think the closest thing to Assault in Q3 has been done by sock in his awesome map The Edge Of Forever, especially by the way he used the game's entities in order to create a SP-like experience.

BTW, I've returned once again to UT2004 and spent some time playing Assault. But in order to be closer to OA, something like the UT version of Assault may be needed. Too much trial map infestation on UT2004. -.- (And the worst part is that 99% of them never passed the Alpha stage -.-)

Basically, as AS is an objective-guided gametype, there should be different kind of entities such as:
- info_AS_objectives (the objective window in UT2004 detailing current and next objectives)
- info_AS_cinematic_opening, prior to objectives, and info_AS_cinematic_ending, after a round win.
- team_AS_attack and team_AS_defense could be used as the starting points.
For punctual objectives:
- trigger_counter (like you've mentioned... "X more to go...")
- trigger_reach ("you must reach on foot X place")
- trigger_destroyable (destroyable stuff on environments)
- trigger_stay (stay in X spot for Y minutes)
- trigger_use (requires the USE keybind)

The problem I see with AS is that there should be a lot of info being transmitted if this mode would have online support, and surely some stuff won't ever be done because of the engine's limitations.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 12:39:31 PM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Akom74
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 01:32:32 AM »

I think that is a good idea, but it will take a lot of time.
An Assault mode for OA inspired to the Assault mode from UT, will be apreciated from the users, but there's a lot of things to create or change, for the original Game Engine.

@Neon_Knight: If i remember in UT at the end of the assault game, teams will be reversed in attack and defense spawn, how it's possible for OA ? A special spawn entity it's needed, no ?

P.S.: I hope this Assault mode will be created, i like this idea !! Cheesy

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 06:17:21 AM »

It's something which should be done code-wise. At the beginning of the match, the red player uses the info_AS_attack spawnpoints and the blue team the info_AS_defense points. This could be the round 0, in round 1 it's the blue the team which uses the info_AS_defense points while the red team uses info_AS_defense points.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 07:53:04 AM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Akom74
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2014, 07:14:44 AM »

It's something which should be done code-wise. At the beginning of the match, the red player uses the info_AS_attack spawnpoints and the blue team the info_AS_defense points. Thi culd be the round 0, in round 1 it's the blue the team which uses the info_AS_defense points while the red team uses info_AS_defense points.

Nice nice !! Can't wait to see something, time permitting Tongue Tongue

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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2014, 12:36:34 PM »

Those changes in game logic (and bot logic) may require some time, IF someone will ever add them to the gamecode.

In the meanwhile, if you wanna try something vaguely similar by using current Elimination features in smart ways, you may take a look to this:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Map_ideas#Elimination_styles
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sago007
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2014, 12:39:47 PM »

I have made many thoughts about it:

I would make a fixed number of stages. Like 16 that makes it easier to store mission description and log time a stage was reached.

The spawn points I would name
info_as_attackXX
info_as_defendXX
info_as_intermissionXX
XX would be the minimum stage reached. By adding the number in the spawn name the spawns could be colored in the map-editor so the mapper got a better overview.
Add target:
target_set_stageXX
Advance to stage XX then triggered by the attacker

The rest of the functionality like stay, use count should not be assault specific they should just trig target_set_stageXX when used in assault.

There are two BIG problems as I see it:
AI is a nightmare
Creating an assault map is a huge job. Just look at the amount of assault maps that UT2004 got.
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Akom74
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2014, 12:49:59 PM »

AI is a nightmare.

I agree, but it's not impossible, or just will be maked some tests i think.

Quote
Creating an assault map is a huge job. Just look at the amount of assault maps that UT2004 got

For the first time, we (mappers) can make a simple map, just to test if all work well.

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2014, 12:55:49 PM »

I don't know, I do agree that there shouldn't be a lot of stages, but sixteen spawnpoints each for a different stage doesn't appear to me as something useful.

Also, AS maps tend to have less than 10 general objectives, counting the "count" objectives as a single objective. Even those ugly and awful trial maps seldom surpass that amount of stages. The default UT99 Assault maps had from two to five objectives.

Frigate was just (enter the frigate) destroy a pump, take control of the ship.
Guardia was just blow a wall, (make your way to the tank control room) open a door and destroy the tank.
HiSpeed was just reach the train [wagon by wagon] and take control of it.
Mazon was just enter the castle, (open the front gate) open the doors and destroy the crystal.
OceanFloor was just destroy each of the 4 terminals.
Overlord was enter to the cave, make your way to the Cannon room and destroy the console.
Finally, Rook was open the library door, destroy the chains, open the min gates and escape.
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sago007
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2014, 01:10:46 PM »

The reason I gave a number of stages was that I believed people would demand unlimited stages. I do believe 16 stages is a lot.

I loved as assault in UT99 and UT2004. For that reason I have made many thoughts about how to implement it. I just always stop at the last two points.
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fromhell
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2014, 04:38:02 PM »

Maybe a map as simple as AS-Instigator could work...  Really boxy and linear but has function. One of the first assault maps i've ever played.


though i doubt a grand canyon type thing will appear
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Akom74
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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 03:47:36 PM »

If Fromhell ask a map for this Assault thing, here is some mapper that can do a test map for Assault code testing.

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