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Author Topic: Gauging interest: OpenArena Community Mappack Volume 2  (Read 112240 times)
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #125 on: October 13, 2017, 10:36:23 am »

You don't need to switch editors. Just replace q3map(2) and bspc with the versions provided and it should work as well.
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Gig
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« Reply #126 on: October 13, 2017, 11:02:40 am »

You don't need to switch editors. Just replace q3map(2) and bspc with the versions provided and it should work as well.
Uhm... maybe, but I wouldn't be so sure. I mean about going from q3map to q3map2... I don't know what would happen if jsut renaming q3map2 to q3map and putting it into Q3Randiant folder.
If course, testing does not cost anything (as long as one cares to keep a copy of original files)..
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #127 on: October 13, 2017, 08:34:07 pm »

I did that test a long time ago. It worked without problems, since the editor just calls the compiler, doesn't seem to check anything else. And it's a logical thing: why would Radiant check for the compiler if it's only needed to compile the map?

The only bad side is the libraries required for it to work. Those must be placed on the same folder, otherwise q3map2/bspc won't work.
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« Reply #128 on: October 14, 2017, 01:33:30 am »

I did that test a long time ago. It worked without problems, since the editor just calls the compiler, doesn't seem to check anything else. And it's a logical thing: why would Radiant check for the compiler if it's only needed to compile the map?
I was not thinking that Radiant would "check" for a certain compiler version, but that q3map (used by Q3Radiant) may have been too much different from q3map2 (used by GTKRadiant and NetRadiant). Q3map2 has got tons of additional switches, and AFAIK it is suggested to use slightly different made sky shaders for q3map2 (see here)...

These are the "final" compile settings from Stock Q3Radiant 202 (taken from "quake.qe4" file)
Quote
"bsp_FullVis (light -extra)" "! __QERPATHq3map $ && ! __QERPATHq3map -vis -threads 1 $ && ! __QERPATHq3map -light -extra -threads 1 $"
Side note: as you can see, that has got those stupid "-threads 1" options which slow down compiling a lot, because they make the compiler use only one thread even on multiprocessor PCs. See also DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling#Q3Radiant]this wiki page.
[/size]

While this is from NetRadiant 1.5.0 "oa.game" package (taken from "default_build_menu.xml" file)
Quote
<build name="Q3Map2: (simulate old style -light -extra) BSP -meta, -vis, -light -super 2">
<command>[q3map2] -meta "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -vis -saveprt "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -light -super 2 "[MapFile]"</command>
</build>
Theoretically, that option should be the NetRadiant one to give the most similar results to Q3Radiant... But I tried it a few times (from NetRadiant) and the lighting wasn't really the same. (Note: for my new NetRadiant map I'm not using that compile option). Other differences I noticed when I tried to re-compile my old Q3Radiant Map from NetRadiant included some textures which had a small "scale" which appeared "enlarged" after the new compile.

However, the parameters don't exactly seem the same (q3radiant script didn't include that "saveprt" switch), I don't know what would happen if just renaming q3map2 to q3map and placing it into Q3Radiant folder...
But if you already tried that...
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:33:17 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #129 on: October 14, 2017, 05:56:00 am »

It should keep using the same switches. AFAIC, there were new options such as flares and DotProduct2 terrain shader (i.e. smooth terrain, terrain blending) support which regular q3map didn't support.

Anyways, weren't those compile settings configurable?
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« Reply #130 on: October 14, 2017, 09:11:13 am »

Anyways, weren't those compile settings configurable?

In theory, from "File" -> "Project settings" menu ->"Menu commands" section. But in reality, that was badly broken and editing an entry from there caused the compile commands to be truncated and ruined. So, the only way is to manually edit quake.q4e file from an external text editor, as I explained in that wiki page about multhreaded compiling. At least, the Q3Radiant version I have... I do not know if there are also some versions without that bug.
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« Reply #131 on: October 17, 2017, 08:31:34 am »

So, if we try to take a few of the options from NetRadiant 1.5.0 oa.game "default_build_menu.xml"
Quote
<build name="Q3Map2: (single) BSP -meta -flares">
<command>[q3map2] -meta -flares "[MapFile]"</command>
</build>
<build name="Q3Map2: (final) BSP -meta, -vis, -light -fast -filter -super 2">
<command>[q3map2] -meta "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -vis -saveprt "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -light -fast -filter -super 2 "[MapFile]"</command>
</build>
<build name="Q3Map2: (final) BSP -meta -flares, -vis, -light -fast -filter -super 2 -bounce 20">
<command>[q3map2] -meta -flares "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -vis -saveprt "[MapFile]"</command>
<command>[q3map2] -light -fast -super 2 -filter -bounce 20 "[MapFile]"</command>
</build>
and manually convert to Q3Radiant menu format...
Quote
"Q3Map2: (single) BSP -meta -flares" "! __QERPATHq3map2 -meta -flares $"
"Q3Map2: (final) BSP -meta, -vis, -light -fast -filter -super 2" "! __QERPATHq3map2 -meta $ && ! __QERPATHq3map2 -vis -saveprt $ && ! __QERPATHq3map2 -light -fast -filter -super 2 $"
"Q3Map2: (final) BSP -meta -flares, -vis, -light -fast -filter -super 2 -bounce 20" "! __QERPATHq3map2 -meta -flares $ && ! __QERPATHq3map2 -vis -saveprt $ && ! __QERPATHq3map2 -light -fast -super 2 -filter -bounce 20 $"
and then manually adding them to quake.qe4 file by editing that file with a text editor. (Make a backup of it first!)
(Note: I kept the reference "q3map2" executable name, so one can just place a copy of q3map2.exe in the same folder of q3radiant original qmap.exe without overwriting the original file: old menu items will use q3map, the new menu items will use q3map2.)

I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY TESTED THIS.
Akom, do you wish to give it a try?

Otherwise... I can remember there was an external Q2MAP2 GUI tool, to launch map compile from outside of NetRadiant, with easily customizable options. I do recall myself re-packaging it to add some dll files which were missing for I do not remember which reason (taking them from some GTKRadiant/NetRadiant package). But at the moment I can't recall its name and the forum thread containing it. Some tip?
PS: Vaguely remembering the work of adding dll files to that GUI package, makes me think that probably you can't just put q3map2.exer in Q3radiant folder, because it will also search for those .dll files which come with NetRadiant/GTK Radiant!!!!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:43:18 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #132 on: October 17, 2017, 11:09:07 am »

The program you're searching for is q3map2build. The original D/L link is lost, so I've uploaded it to Dropbox.
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Akom74
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« Reply #133 on: October 17, 2017, 12:02:09 pm »

Akom, do you wish to give it a try?

No, i'm not. Actually i'm very busy with my new job, start from 06.00 am and finish at 18.30 pm.

In the short time remaining before sleep at 22.00 pm, i'm trying to make another map for forum's users.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #134 on: October 17, 2017, 02:25:13 pm »

Akom, do you wish to give it a try?

No, i'm not. Actually i'm very busy with my new job, start from 06.00 am and finish at 18.30 pm.

In the short time remaining before sleep at 22.00 pm, i'm trying to make another map for forum's users.

Wink
Oh. I don't know if I should tell you "congratulations for your new job" or not, then.

So, should we consider that probably you will not partecipate to oacmp2 with new maps?
But would you be okay to partecipate with those cool maps from yours you did in the past years, such as suicizer, cargo, the one of four worlds, a ctf map on sky buildings...? Maybe if there is some need to make some fixes to make them compile with q3map2 or to add support for more gametypea, would it be okay for you if Neon Knight does them? (In case Neon Knight wishes so, of course).
I do know that you are used to say "these maps are gpl, anyone can do as he wishes"... but a thing I recall of oacmp1 was that map authors had to expressly say they wanted their maps in the package, as oacmp does not want to simply be a re-packaging of third party maps, but a team work instead.

PS: I think there will be some months before oacmp2 development enters an high activity state, we still have to do some other things before that.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 04:06:52 pm by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2017, 02:33:11 pm »

So, should we consider that probably you will not partecipate to oacmp2 with new maps?

I want to Smiley

For the final compiling with q3map2, we have Neon_Knight as supervisor  Wink

Quote
PS: I think there will be some months before oacmp2 development enters an high activity state, we still have to do some other things before that.

BTW, Who are the mappers this time ?

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #136 on: October 17, 2017, 03:21:52 pm »

Nice to hear you will be with us also in this adventure!
And of course for me it's okay that NK recompiles your maps before the pack release... just the important thing is to do not do it only at the last moment before the release without previous testing (IIRC, something bad happened with oacmp1 version 2 or 3)...

About your question:
For the moment, we have a map that Jangroothoose posted to the oacmp2 commits thread some years ago, and a couple of maps from Neon Knight.

Maybe I may contribute with a map or two, but I don't know because:
The first map is mostly finished... but even if I did spend a lot of effort on it back then, I fear the final look may nit be professional enough for the mappack (side note: I never thought about it as a "pro" map, but a "fun" experimental small map).
The second map (also paused since years) is still at the first, although large, room. And I'm slow at mapping, probably forgot a lot of radiant commands, and haven't a lot of time to spend on it.

Nitpicking PS: if you use 24h format, you don't need to specify "a.m./p.m.", which are required for 12h format instead. Wink
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 04:04:22 pm by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #137 on: October 17, 2017, 03:33:58 pm »

Next week I'll try to finish the second map of mine.
Akom, feel free to choose any of your past contributions. Since all of them are GPLd, they can go, of course.
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« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2017, 02:32:17 am »

The program you're searching for is q3map2build. The original D/L link is lost, so I've uploaded it to Dropbox.
Thank you!
Thanks to its name, I found the post where I published my own re-packaged version of q3map2build, where years ago I did add some files which were required to use it as a "standalone" tool on Windows (adding bspc and some dlls, taken from some GTKRadiant and NetRadiant packages):
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.msg47955#msg47955
Direct download link: http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/tools/q3map2build1_0_25_withDLL_BSPC.zip
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« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2017, 02:39:30 am »

About other partecipants to the mappack...

I was wondering if we may ask Adriano if he would like to have his oa_ctf4ish Evolution map to be included into "OACMP2" instead of "tribute mappack" (considering how much "Evolution" version changed from the original map, I feel it may be better to place a more "classic" version of it in the tribute mappack, don't you think?).
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2017, 05:36:52 am »

Well, unless people don't have time to create their own maps and still want to participate, I would prefer if they can create maps specifically from the pack. I know what happens when the request of "put this map/put that map" gets out of hand. Besides, what about the preference for original maps made by the pack?
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« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2017, 08:27:54 am »

Well, unless people don't have time to create their own maps and still want to participate, I would prefer if they can create maps specifically from the pack.
I also hope we will have most maps specifically created for the mappack... however also leaving out good maps such as Suicizer and Cargo would be a waste. And for the moment, unfortunately noone answered to your OACMP2 post on Discord some time ago, IIRC... :-(
Quote
I know what happens when the request of "put this map/put that map" gets out of hand.
What happens?
Quote
Besides, what about the preference for original maps made by the pack?
"The preference" does not mean that *all* maps have to be original. I loved oacmpdm4. And that ctf4 Evolution map just seems to me a bit too much remixed for the tribute mappack... IMHO of course, I would prefer to find a more classic version of that map in that package...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 08:43:06 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2017, 11:52:56 am »

Instead of a mappack (with maps created especially for the pack) we end up with a compilation pack (with already made maps taken from other places). That's NOT the point.
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« Reply #143 on: October 18, 2017, 02:49:14 pm »

Instead of a mappack (with maps created especially for the pack) we end up with a compilation pack (with already made maps taken from other places). That's NOT the point.
Wait a minute... we would NOT be scavenging third party maps found across the net. I'm NOT suggesting that.
And also I'm not suggesting to take "as they are" maps already well known among players... But at maximum, a few yet-unknown remakes or remixes of "well known" maps, like Oacmp1 had 2 out of 13, IIRC.

We would just use -under author's permission and collaborating with him for further enanchements- some maps which have actually been developed on this forum (to which we have given feedback during their development), and that probably a very small number of players apart from the few of us who actually follow this forum have ever seen or heard of. Maps which are (more or less) not "officially" published, although their author may consider them "complete".

And oacmp2 started right after the final selection of 13 maps of oacmp1*: it's possibe that Akom made his maps already with oacmp2 in mind (he may confirm this or not)... I don't know if he already published them on known sites such as MapRaider or not... but probably not... Do you get what I mean?

A very good map such as oa_suicizer is worth of being made popular by a mappack (or even oa3, but that's sooo far in time), instead of remaining in the oblivion of a forum thread forever...
NOTE: I'm writing this "IMHO", of course. This is just my opinion, which counts for one.

*As proved by the presence of that map from Jan, the first added to oacmp2 years ago.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 03:39:51 pm by Gig » Logged

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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2017, 04:21:10 pm »

Hi fellows,

I have not read the complet thread, but how about a set of maps for that Mappack where all mappers developing on?

My idea is to go on a roadmap and work together to a handfull of maps.

It could run like these steps:

1. decision how many maps, and types of maps, like: 10 dm, 6 ctf, 4 tourney ... and so on
2. start with design simple layouts: everyone brings map layout ideas or just some layout fragments .
3. After all take the ideas and fire up the radiant to build raw the outcome based on the ideas, while build some defined standards shall be used (high of rooms; wide of tunnle etc.)
4. Every one can work on each map decisions will be made in the group.
5. Testing the maps is also important Wink
6. Finish the maps for a release

I know the agenda sounds hard even I am busy like hell: job, family, house building
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #145 on: December 11, 2017, 04:23:36 am »

The problem with that approach is that you depend on the other mappers' availability in order to create your layout. In the past pack every mapper had freedom to create their own map/layout. I don't want to break this in this or other future volumes.

Not to mention the inherent problem with the whole "design by committee" thing.

Aaaaaaaaaand, we still have to gather people and most importantly: if a date is set, then everyone (including myself) should respect those dates. The past pack was delayed for several months in part because of insistence on minor bugs and glitches.

And last, but not least, yeah, we need testers, but incredibly enough there aren't many around.

I could set a date, but we need people first.
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« Reply #146 on: December 11, 2017, 12:59:07 pm »

The problem with that approach is that you depend on the other mappers' availability in order to create your layout. In the past pack every mapper had freedom to create their own map/layout. I don't want to break this in this or other future volumes.

Not to mention the inherent problem with the whole "design by committee" thing.

Aaaaaaaaaand, we still have to gather people and most importantly: if a date is set, then everyone (including myself) should respect those dates. The past pack was delayed for several months in part because of insistence on minor bugs and glitches.

And last, but not least, yeah, we need testers, but incredibly enough there aren't many around.

I could set a date, but we need people first.

We also need more texture-pack Cheesy Cheesy
...and soundtraks...

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #147 on: December 11, 2017, 04:04:35 pm »


We also need more texture-pack Cheesy Cheesy
...and soundtraks...

About soundtracks, oacmp packs can add their own music files, as long as they are truly gpl compliant and come with "source"...

About stock musics, in oa3 there will be a major change, as Fromhell plans to migrate stock musics from .ogg to tracker format (for easier editing and as workaround for the annoying problem of the game hitch every time .ogg music track restarts). So, I can't tell how many stock music files OA3 will have and how different they will sound than the current ones. I don't even know if they will keep the same naming format (I hope yes, to do not lose backgound music in oacmp vol 1 maps). However, for oacmp vol2 we have to work with "current" oa version, which currently is 088, so tracker format isn't officially supported yet.

PS: Akom, did you know about this page? (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Texture_packs
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« Reply #148 on: December 12, 2017, 12:50:34 pm »

PS: Akom, did you know about this page? (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Texture_packs

Yes i do, what do you mean ??  punched
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« Reply #149 on: December 12, 2017, 02:23:16 pm »

PS: Akom, did you know about this page? (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Texture_packs

Yes i do, what do you mean ??  punched
I meant that probably in the future we will have more textures, but in the meanwhile, we have those of OA 088. Within what we currently have, that page may give a little help to find the textures adapt for a certain "theme"...
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