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carca55gr1nd3r
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« on: December 23, 2015, 06:32:41 pm »

Hi OA Gamers & OA Community

I was wondering if you like the default maps oa_bases3 till oa_bases7 ?
The basic idea to have a CTF between two bases is nice ... I like it...

... but to see these maps from the aesthetically way ...  Shocked





... forced me to start a mapping project called oa_bases_reloaded.  ccool

Some shots from my construction side Wink :













Note thats just a draft construct, it is incomplete  only a part of final version in my mind...

Just want to know if you like the idea to have a nicer map of bases...

here also the current status so far... once again is still work in progress and only a part of the whole planned map.
But you can fool arround with one bot 1vs1 ...

https://app.box.com/s/9l73qgnejurvm49usfq9x8ov53cpf36o


« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 06:37:27 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
fromhell
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 08:28:19 pm »

I'm still surprised people like my crappy "bases" series.  I'm still attempting ctf maps (slowly), but emphasizing unique themes with them

If you want inspiration, here's the sources of inspiration I had with 3 and 5.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 08:46:18 pm by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 10:40:12 pm »

I'm still surprised people like my crappy "bases" series.  I'm still attempting ctf maps (slowly), but emphasizing unique themes with them

If you want inspiration, here's the sources of inspiration I had with 3 and 5.



oh thats from you hell hope I don't get slaps in da face from ya  punched

Actually your maps gave me the inspiration I need to do it. I want to stay close to the floor layout but make it more shiny.

From the first and the next screenshots you can not see the final result I want to have but I hope you will like it.

some progress: add the main entrance and build a toxic sea in front.







I still not happy with the shore of the toxic lake ... want to make it more curvy


« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 10:45:17 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
DILZNIK
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2015, 07:33:15 am »

Not to be negative, but most people never really liked the oa_bases maps. I think it just comes out to being mostly unplayable in a good team game. Either the base is way to far or theres a camp zone where its easy to shoot from, but hard to shoot in. I think redesigning this series would make it worth playing. These maps usually contain weapons in bad places or too many weapons in one room.

Every map doesn't need a lake.  Lips Sealed
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 07:37:31 am by DILZNIK » Logged

Neon_Knight
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2015, 08:13:10 am »

Well, the problems I see with the bases maps:

- Not enough entrances (1 entrance per base doesn't cut it for CTF and team-based gametypes, not even 2; they aren't called "bottlenecks" for nothing)
- One of the best FPS mappers out there (UT2004's Hourences) recommends to break open areas, as they aren't suitable for fast-paced games. (They belong more into the open area games like Battlefield) The center area is just way too open.

I've tackled a bit this problem in the 0.8.8 version of bases3plus3 (five entrances to the base: the main one, two lower lateral ones, and two upper jumppad ones). And tried a solution in bases3 involving the use of another map (void4) inside of it as a way to break up the central area. Here's what I've done so far.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 08:16:56 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


"Level Designers are 1 part architect, 1 part artist, 1 part game designer, and 1 part beta tester!" Cliff Bleszinski
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 08:22:52 am »

Not to be negative, but most people never really liked the oa_bases maps. I think it just comes out to being mostly unplayable in a good team game. Either the base is way to far or theres a camp zone where its easy to shoot from, but hard to shoot in. I think redesigning this series would make it worth playing. These maps usually contain weapons in bad places or too many weapons in one room.

Every map doesn't need a lake.  Lips Sealed

You pointed out directly the main points I want to improve including the artistical aspect.
Maybe I was to early to mentioned this project here.  Undecided

Wait till my vision has come to a playble version. After that you can still hate it or love it maybe. giggity

BTW the toxic lake is used to make the game play more fun by risky jumps.  Tongue

Its not about to just have a lake on a map, I have try to analyze the bases series and want to use the same elements but to improve that elements in placement and give a task to it.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 11:44:51 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 08:54:36 am »

Well, the problems I see with the bases maps:

- Not enough entrances (1 entrance per base doesn't cut it for CTF and team-based gametypes, not even 2; they aren't called "bottlenecks" for nothing)
- One of the best FPS mappers out there (UT2004's Hourences) recommends to break open areas, as they aren't suitable for fast-paced games. (They belong more into the open area games like Battlefield) The center area is just way too open.

I've tackled a bit this problem in the 0.8.8 version of bases3plus3 (five entrances to the base: the main one, two lower lateral ones, and two upper jumppad ones). And tried a solution in bases3 involving the use of another map (void4) inside of it as a way to break up the central area. Here's what I've done so far.

Yes I totaly agree with you my intention is to have multiple entrances, multiple paths and defined choke points. Also the terrian will be not just a flat area to breake up the open area of the map. See the sample map in my first post here. Note its far away from my final vision.

As mentioned the post was to early have just worked approximately 6 hours on it just to capture the middle part of the map with the two level gameplay.

Lessons learned  punched punched punched
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 01:06:53 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 08:57:12 am »

Neat.

This reminds me that I have to finish the Map Gameplay article of the Mapping manual... among TONS of other things. -.-
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2015, 05:19:55 pm »

Breaking News

I was really desperated after all these posts and to start that thread to early. Therefore this "small" update  Grin

The big main difference to bases3 ... 3plus3 ... 7 ... 666 ... 1024 .... whatever version .... here:



With this I want to gain the gameplay   ccool
Hope ya can see it ...  topsy  ... ya can call it the banana effect in your  Map Gameplay article, Neon_Knight (but please. don't forget to name the source ...  punched  
Wow I have invent a new wording in gameplay stuff...  Roll Eyes

Next improve will be done of course by multiple entrances, here a sample:



And here the shots of the prorgess so far...





Oh, yes and multiple paths will also be used to improve the gameplay:






The map is far away to be finished, but the bots love the map allready by now Wink







me too:


If ya do not belief me here a proof by video  ccool

https://youtu.be/yRTFJlSxeJA

« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 03:59:08 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 09:23:15 pm »

Not to be negative, but most people never really liked the oa_bases maps. I think it just comes out to being mostly unplayable in a good team game. Either the base is way to far or theres a camp zone where its easy to shoot from, but hard to shoot in. I think redesigning this series would make it worth playing. These maps usually contain weapons in bad places or too many weapons in one room.

Every map doesn't need a lake.  Lips Sealed

Not to be positive...

but I have get the map close to my vision  ccool















And the gameplay ... sucks my balls ... damn ... I really scared about myself after this outcome  punched

Hope you like it too ...

here the pk3: https://app.box.com/s/xv107mhthypc560t7yjdqobaknk6uvkb

Note: Its still a prealpha release threre is some thinks to fix yet:
- light upgade in the bases groundfloor
- items inside bases (the bases was the last step I have done, In the beginning I had no idea how to build the bases, but it cames clear in the end. So, thats the newest part of the map no items therefore)
- vis optimation ... never have done that hope some one can give me a help to fix this ... I just learning that mapping stuff

and here also a demo with CTF action on the map: https://app.box.com/s/howq8nlw81cuf8mm8hcb2cwr7j0ioxcf

Comments are wellcome and drop me some demos ....   giggity

need more demos also by my other map project dark abbey  shifty

update: Here also a video with the CTF gameplay: https://youtu.be/jaZE0OdTeow
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 04:33:45 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2015, 02:13:37 am »

Tried it... Nice!  Smiley
However, there are a few things which make me a little uncertain...

- Isn't it too much probable to fall in lava, when you are in the lower floor of a base? You have to watch your step more than your opponents...
- For some reason, I find myself using the upper part of the map much more than the lower part... not sure why... spawn points positioning maybe? Uhm... I should do more testing... Maybe it's just me...
- Maybe there are a bit too many teleporters in this map... however that's just my personal taste!
- There are some places which do not seem very bot-friendly. Look at the first screenshot attached... do bots work well there? Also in the place of the second screenshot, bots seem to tend to die in the slime (although I should spend more time watching how they behave in the map).
- Why does the slime kill you so fast? Slime should kill you much slower than lava. Maybe you also placed hurt triggers inside the pools? There should no be need for them... just "surfaceparm slime"/"surfaceparm lava" in the shaders should make slime and lava brushes automatically hurt players.
- What about placing "common/nodrop" brushes inside slime and lava pools? That would prevent items (especially flags) from remaining inside the pools when their owner dies there (in the second screenshot you can see the top of a flag in the slime).
- Considering that there is not a "central water pool", can this still be considered an "oa_bases" map?  Cheesy (Note: this does not imply I did love the central pools, it's just a thought!  Smiley)
- Curiosity: what's the meaning of the symbol in the third screenshot? Is all the stuff used in the map GPLv2 compliant?


PS: As you asked for it, here's a few infos about VIS optimization:
- (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Optimization_and_troubleshooting
- (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Hint_brushes
Various links to mapping-related documentation here: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:41:24 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Akom74
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2015, 07:46:09 am »

You're doing a good job, but:

1) Ehm, too much teleporters ?  punched

2) The map seems to not have a real "Map Theme", i mean the textures.

3) Some places are too dark.

EDIT: 4) Can you enlarge the map ?

Wink
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 10:19:46 am by Akom74 » Logged

...sorry for my English, i'm Italian... Tongue



carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 01:33:23 pm »

Tried it... Nice!  Smiley
However, there are a few things which make me a little uncertain...

- Isn't it too much probable to fall in lava, when you are in the lower floor of a base? You have to watch your step more than your opponents...

Yes thats the funny issue on it Wink

- For some reason, I find myself using the upper part of the map much more than the lower part... not sure why... spawn points positioning maybe? Uhm... I should do more testing... Maybe it's just me...

Its not you Smiley  the base was done in the final step as I have mentioned. The spawn points are not fixed yet Smiley

- Maybe there are a bit too many teleporters in this map... however that's just my personal taste!

Maybe was a quick and dirty solution the initial intention was to make a more detailed room with water pool and so on ....
... so maybe later Wink


- There are some places which do not seem very bot-friendly. Look at the first screenshot attached... do bots work well there? Also in the place of the second screenshot, bots seem to tend to die in the slime (although I should spend more time watching how they behave in the map).

Yes I have seen that too, especially on the jump pads ... will see what I can do ...


- Why does the slime kill you so fast? Slime should kill you much slower than lava. Maybe you also placed hurt triggers inside the pools? There should no be need for them... just "surfaceparm slime"/"surfaceparm lava" in the shaders should make slime and lava brushes automatically hurt players.

yes there is a hurt trigger placed inside that pools ... the issue was that the bots stuck in side the pools but the hurt was on surface only Sad


- What about placing "common/nodrop" brushes inside slime and lava pools? That would prevent items (especially flags) from remaining inside the pools when their owner dies there (in the second screenshot you can see the top of a flag in the slime).

I was faced to the same ... have tested the map with normal Deadmatch mode and the CTF at the end only will be fixed ... is just a prealpha version Grin

- Considering that there is not a "central water pool", can this still be considered an "oa_bases" map?  Cheesy (Note: this does not imply I did love the central pools, it's just a thought!  Smiley)

yes maybe later Wink see upper point with the teleporter

- Curiosity: what's the meaning of the symbol in the third screenshot? Is all the stuff used in the map GPLv2 compliant?

Want to have a id3 Tech logo on it .... that logo is what I have found at here: http://ioquake3.org/
hope it also belongs to GPLv2

however do ya want your own logo there look at the attachements Wink


PS: As you asked for it, here's a few infos about VIS optimization:
- (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Optimization_and_troubleshooting
- (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Hint_brushes
Various links to mapping-related documentation here: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials

Thanks for the links will have a look to it
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Gig
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2015, 02:02:02 pm »

Slime pit hurting on surface only sounds strange... are you sure the brush had the same shader on all faces, and that it did completely fill the pit? I will no be able to do mapping tests for several days.

For the logo... it's the current ioquake3 logo, then? I suppose it may be gplv2, however we should search for some confirm, to be sure...
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2015, 02:16:01 pm »

You're doing a good job, but:

1) Ehm, too much teleporters ?  punched

Okay noted  Roll Eyes  (read my interview with Gig Wink )

2) The map seems to not have a real "Map Theme", i mean the textures.

yes confirmed, therefore its a prealpha version. I want to fix the basic structure of the map some textures was selected fast without relation to a theme.
I normaly also be able to create my own textures but than the map would be finished on summer next year  punched

3) Some places are too dark.

Yes, confirmed please take attention to my pervious remark on that;)

EDIT: 4) Can you enlarge the map ?

Wink

Akom ... you know how this works ... I need another "please open here"  Cheesy

[/quote]
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2015, 03:22:24 pm »

In honor to Lemmy

« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 03:36:25 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2015, 03:43:34 pm »

Who's Lemmy?

By the way, you may use screenshotjpeg instead of screenshot.  Smiley
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2015, 04:01:17 pm »

Who's Lemmy?

By the way, you may use screenshotjpeg instead of screenshot.  Smiley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmy

 Cry
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Gig
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2015, 04:19:59 pm »

A rockband logo? Sounds unprobably to be gpl'd..
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2015, 04:50:33 pm »

A rockband logo? Sounds unprobably to be gpl'd..

Yeah, you porbably right,
that was also only a sample for ... put your own logo...
the main pk3 will still stay as it is ...

Edit and I hope ya read the wiki page regarding Lemmy carefully...
... his music has infuence indirectly my own style to play guitar
... unfortunately he pass the way three days ago 4 days after his 70th birthday  grouch  Sad


BTW Happy new year  giggity topsy Tongue
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 08:51:45 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2016, 05:51:39 am »

Slime pit hurting on surface only sounds strange... are you sure the brush had the same shader on all faces, and that it did completely fill the pit? I will no be able to do mapping tests for several days.

For the logo... it's the current ioquake3 logo, then? I suppose it may be gplv2, however we should search for some confirm, to be sure...

Okay thats maybe the issue the slime in the pit is common/nodraw and only the top surface is silme shader.

Thanks Gig, I will change that and that also the hurt trigger brush can be removed by that cange.


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Akom74
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2016, 09:33:51 am »

EDIT: 4) Can you enlarge the map ?

Wink

Akom ... you know how this works ... I need another "please open here"  Cheesy








This time may be "enlarge here".....XD...

Smiley Smiley
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2016, 03:35:23 pm »

How about enlarge like this and remove some of the teleporter:

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:38:34 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2016, 03:58:51 pm »

Maybe are the "bases" to be too small?
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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2016, 07:52:14 pm »

I'd not worry about the hydrophobia of arena players btw.  The point of the water in my maps are for sacrificing mobility for covertness. My maps weren't "designed" for hoppers only
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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