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Author Topic: oa_ctf4ish - Evolution  (Read 15713 times)
Gig
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2016, 03:40:00 am »

Interesting... Unfortuntately, I will not be able to test it today...

PS: in my previous post, once I erroneously wrote "pmove_msec 9" instead of "pmove_msec 8", but it is not possible to modify that post anymore.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 03:42:21 pm by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2016, 06:40:03 am »

Nice. I hope you will include bot support with next beta.

I haven't been able yet to get the "flight" items... any hint?

To avoid campers from the upper platform, you could place a crusher trap like q3tourney6... or provide a jumppad which would allow to get at the back of the camper (but I also like the way that jumppad in this version brings you to the yellow armor, although it is a bit reduntant with the teleporter... so I don't know)...

Attached, a small place which "blinks" in blue side, and not in red side.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 06:42:36 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2016, 06:50:49 am »

About the problems of your "15" screenshot...

For the "farther" one, I opened the map in the editor and it looks like you used a grid smaller than 1 there (I set the grid to 1 and see some vertices of the brushes to not touch the grid). This is probably a bad idea. I suggest you to delete those brushes and redo that part, making sure of not using a grid smaller than 1.

For the "nearest" one... it looks like it doesn't use a grid smaller than 1, but for some reason it has got the glitch. Did you already try to delete e recreate those two brushes?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 06:57:06 am by Gig » Logged

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adriano
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2016, 07:49:13 am »

Nice. I hope you will include bot support with next beta.
I'll do.
I haven't been able yet to get the "flight" items... any hint?
Well, the idea of placing them there is following scenario: You take enemys' flagg and want to jump towards the jumppad (the one withrocket mid-air) but you get pushed from behind by enemys' defenders with shotgun and it happens quite often that you go out wide and fall down. But with those flight items you can be rescued. D: -> Pro: It is a fun little addition to the game - some think you'll fall down but then you rise up.  Con: you can argument to remove it , e.g. because it's the defenders reward that he brings you down to death with his push

If I think further in direction 'additions to the game' I could place the envunerability mid-air between those flight items, so it is hard to get.... just an idea.

To avoid campers from the upper platform, you could place a crusher trap like q3tourney6... or provide a jumppad which would allow to get at the back of the camper (but I also like the way that jumppad in this version brings you to the yellow armor, although it is a bit reduntant with the teleporter... so I don't know)...
I'll build a such crusher trap for the next version  Wink
About the jumppad: Yes it is redundant because it brings you to the same place but one is way is meant to be for the enemys' attackers (silent attack from behind with the jumppad) and the other is for the defenders to get the armor using the teleporter (I could leave the teleporter away but it is much easier and faster to use than the jumppad from that position).

Attached, a small place which "blinks" in blue side, and not in red side.
Fixed.

About the problems of your "15" screenshot...

For the "farther" one, I opened the map in the editor and it looks like you used a grid smaller than 1 there (I set the grid to 1 and see some vertices of the brushes to not touch the grid). This is probably a bad idea. I suggest you to delete those brushes and redo that part, making sure of not using a grid smaller than 1.

For the "nearest" one... it looks like it doesn't use a grid smaller than 1, but for some reason it has got the glitch. Did you already try to delete e recreate those two brushes?
- I'll try to remake the jumppads by my own. Before, I had just copied one of the jumppads and let it rotate by 10.
- The glitch with the two brushes is fixed.


Again, thanks Gig.
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cheb
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2016, 06:43:29 pm »

Should note that coming out of teleporter face-first is WRONG.

Because it causes disorientation. Which on an open, see-through map is a big deal.

The old, basic map keeps your aiming direction so you have to turn around manually after the jumppad, otherwise you arrive butt-first. BUT it doesn't throw off your aim.

In the new map you *still* have to turn around to avoid arriving on the platform facing backwards *and* your aim is thrown off. Is it possible to teleport without  affecting player's direction?

Otherwise I'd suggest the following variants:
1.
a) extend the vertical wall down to shield players arriving via teleport
b) remove the jumppad entirely, moving teleport exit instead so that arriving player shoots out of it upwards in an arch towards the platform

2.
a) remove teleporters completely, replacing them with a couple jumppads:
the first one, like it is now, shoots the player at great speed horizontally, arching slightly below the platform to hit the second jumppad that bounces player up to the platform in a *slow* arch.

3. as 2 but separate the vertical wall from the platform so that the player flies under the platform to bounce up and backwards, would still have to turn around manually to face the platform.

4. Copy the old scheme, that part was damn good and well balanced for frantic pursuit.

5. Copy the old scheme, just add the wall.

P.S. Kudos for the flight powerups, I always have fun trying to hit them  Tongue

P.P.S. The BFG! Not the BFG! *sniff* I am very adept now at getting it in one well-timed jump. I even changed my nick to "BFG-Cheb". Everyone has that trick learned nowadays, total party kills are becoming the norm! Even BFG-on-BFG duels aren't that uncommon  Roll Eyes (just visit "CTF for stupid")
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adriano
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2016, 10:17:26 am »

Hey Cheb, I didn't take this issue into account, so thank you for let me notice that and also thx for thinking about solutions.
Is it possible to teleport without  affecting player's direction?
Idk that, I will search for an answer. Ofc that would be interesting because it would allow to keep on your aim perfectly.
What I can do is to change the coming out of the teleporter from face-first to butt-first, so you don't need to turn around (at least the aim isn't thrown off that much)-> see shot0019.jpg
I am trying it out now and I think it is ok but I may optimize that using one of your suggestions 1-3. Variants 4&5 have the disadvantage that they don't have a protecting wall against enemy's base while jumping on that platform.

About news: Sadly the work stucked in the last month, but take a look on the other screenshots. In shot0018 you can see that I moved the jumppad more behind the base because I noticed that the under-base-jumppad is a very powerful way (fast + less enemies to beat to get the flagg) so at least I raised the time for doing the jumps. shot0020 shows a first sketch of the crusher. And I added the envunerability (shot0017)
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Gig
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2016, 05:02:45 am »

Hi Adriano.
In one of your screenshots, you said that "invulnerability" powerup respawns after 10 minutes. What's the reason for a such extremely long time?

About teleporters, IIRC a teleport can point to a "target_position" OR to a "misc_teleporter_dest"... according to this page, the second one should support "angle" key to set the player's facing direction.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 05:15:31 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2016, 05:53:04 am »

Quote
so you don't need to turn around (at least the aim isn't thrown off that much)-> see shot0019.jpg
That'd be a great improvement

Still, consider the teleport-less variant (see image).

P.S. I want to make my own tweaked version of the legacy map, but there is too much other stuff to do now. Maybe in January.
I'd
1. Reduced the railing platforms to half their size and made them completely transparent
2. Removed the moving platform thus denying BFG to noobs
3. Mirrored the BFG making the teams equal
4. Moved the BFG further out so that the trickjump to get it is *much* harder, you'd have to begin steering in reverse towards the platform while still above the BFG, so main challenge would be not overshooting the platform.
5. Added a wall to the side platforms (a good idea of yours), growing out of the current jumppad
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adriano
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2016, 05:28:37 pm »

Hi Adriano.
In one of your screenshots, you said that "invulnerability" powerup respawns after 10 minutes. What's the reason for a such extremely long time?

About teleporters, IIRC a teleport can point to a "target_position" OR to a "misc_teleporter_dest"... according to this page, the second one should support "angle" key to set the player's facing direction.
Hi Gig, the reason I choosed a long respawn time for the invulnerability powerup is because I see it as a bonus powerup: Just nice to have but not necessary and since there are also the flight and quad it is getting a bit too much powerups on that spot. 10 minutes may are too much, Idk right now, I'll see after gameplay.

About teleporter: Yes, I can enter a fixed number for the angle like 0, 10, 17... but to make it perfect it would be cool if I could enter a variable as key that would be equal to the entrance angle at teleporter entry (+180), so the aim position remains the same after teleport exit. But as said, that is not a dramatic problem, just a little detail.

Still, consider the teleport-less variant (see image).
Nice idea with the vertical long wall at the jumppad near to the platform. Using no teleporter to prevent that the aim position changes is in the first thought a good idea, but if you imagine this solution ingame: when you walk towards the jumppad you are aiming left* and later when you are on the rocket platform you are aiming right* -> big turn needed -> low-sensitivity-players won't love it

*I know, it is difficult to imagine

-> So it isn't that bad to have teleporters that correct the aim direction in the way you need it
@your first post: solution number 1 is my favorite.
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adriano
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2016, 09:28:19 am »

Hi all, I'm back with some progress. See video ( http://sendvid.com/d5msx7u9 ) and/or read here:
- direct teleporter exit to rocket platform without jumppad (=> time saving)
- added a crusher where you can walk in and take the "invulnerability" powerup (ofc I remove the other "invulnerability" from the old spot). It's a neat place to hide when you have the enemy flagg. A barrier protects from camping.
- readded the old yellow armor where it was
- now you can also reach the rail platform with the jumppad under the base by doing air strafing
- added an automatic rocket shooter to prevent camping on the new yellow armor platform above the flagg. It shoots after some seconds, but sadly it shoots also when you leave the platform. I wasn't able to find a solution yet that let the shooter shoot ONLY if you stay more than let's say 8 sec ON the platform. If you leave the platform before 8 seconds past then it shouldn't shoot. Maybe you know a solution for that... for now it is like you see in the attachement: a trigger_multiple some units above the platform. When you pass it, it shoots with a delayed time of 8 sec.

Let me know what you like or don't like from the changes!


EDIT:

I removed the camping barrier at the crusher and added +2 damage / sec on that platform. => so you can't stay for ever hidden on that platform. And you can't freely camp there because the inflicted damage disturbes the aiming!

http://sendvid.com/8ydwspbb

2. EDIT:

I think I will add an activator button above the crusher and remove the option that the crusher activates by shooting at it. Why? It is a way too easy to fragg somebody on the railplatform because the surface of the crusher is big. It will be similar to the map 13dream but not such a little activator button as it is there.

And I'll see if I slightly increase the damage/sec.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 07:25:36 am by adriano » Logged
adriano
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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2016, 05:40:06 am »

Update: Due to the invunerability powerup I thought that there must be a protection for the players that get attacked from a player that uses the invunerability powerup. -> So the new yellow armor platform will be solid (so you can't anymore shoot through) and I'll add a new pillar. Just 1 on each base, on the left you have the yellow armor and on the right you have the pillar. Idk if I am going too far from the original map with all these changes. Tell me what you think. Do you like that there is a pillar on the base? I know it is uncommmon to see in the first moment...

For the rocket shooter I'll probably apply an activation button just like I'll do for the crusher.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 05:45:29 am by adriano » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2016, 06:03:26 am »

Nice.

A thing that I noticed (not a problem) in your second video is that, by "hurting" of 2 HP at second, it depletes all of your armor before starting to touch your health (due to armor taking 2/3 of damage, if damage is less than 3 it goes all to armor).

About going somehow "far" from the original map... maybe the quake tribute mappack may contain two different versions of the map, your "remixed" one and a more "classic" one? Just an idea...

PS: those columns do remind me about q3tourney6... are we sure they are not copy-pasted by copyrighted maps, right?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 07:22:13 am by Gig » Logged

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adriano
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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2016, 07:24:33 am »

A thing that I noticed (not a problem) in your second video is that, by "hurting" of 2 HP at second, it depletes all of your armor before starting to touch your health (due to armor taking 2/3 of damage, if damage is less than 3 it goes all to armor).
Thx, I didn't know about this. I'll probably set it to 3 or 4 HP / second.

About going somehow "far" from the original map... maybe the quake tribute mappack may contain two different versions of the map, your "remixed" one and a more "classic" one? Just an idea...
Yes, I like this idea. First I'm gonna finish the remixed version. The classic one won't have all the new features (e.g. under-base-jumppad, crusher, platform with rocket shooter, jumppad with plasma mid-air and so on), it will just have the same (or nearly the same) items and weapons as the original one but with a new design (e.g. the protecting walls at rocket platform remain, I'll readd the moving little platform in the center of the map)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 07:38:20 am by adriano » Logged
BlankBruno
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2016, 09:50:27 am »

I too am liking the new features you've added adriano! I am looking forward to playing this newest version for myself and seeing how the changes "feel".  Smiley Is this version available on a public server now?
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adriano
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« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2016, 03:11:55 pm »

I too am liking the new features you've added adriano! I am looking forward to playing this newest version for myself and seeing how the changes "feel".  Smiley Is this version available on a public server now?
No, it isn't. I'm sorry I can't give you a finished pk3-file right now. I need to optimize some little things, copy all to red base and add bot support. I won't be able to continue tomorrow but I will at end of the week. I'll upload the map here as soon as it is ready ! Cu soon!
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Gig
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« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2016, 04:00:42 pm »

Currently, I don't know a lot of details about the tribute mappack. For me, even the plain OA 0.8.8 version of the map may fit as the "classic" one (in addition to your remix)... maybe with that small texture transparency problem fixed, if possible.
Probably, Fromhell and Neon Knight will evaluate what to do...
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adriano
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« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2016, 05:55:03 pm »

Currently, I don't know a lot of details about the tribute mappack. For me, even the plain OA 0.8.8 version of the map may fit as the "classic" one (in addition to your remix)... maybe with that small texture transparency problem fixed, if possible.
I try to assume a bit:
As far as I understood the tribute mappack contains "remakes" of other games' maps, mostly Quake maps. For now the remake of the "q3ctf4" from Quake3 is the current "oa_ctf4ish" from OA 0.8.8 version, while my version slid into a "remix of the remake" in my oppinion. Several weeks ago Neon_Knight wrote that he wanted to include my map to the tribute mappack. We were already talking about a crusher and other things but there is the rule on wikia:
Quote
As this is a Tribute pack, it's recommended to not deviate much from the original layout. Modifications may be OK, but remember what we are tributing.
but he also said that he may drop that rule. So idk, I'm a bit worried. I'm fine with all. ^^


I think the current "oa_ctf4ish" is on a good point to be the finished remake. The small texture transparency problem and maybe very little design changes (what about the lamp at the rocket platform?) could be added to say it is 100% finished.
In my last post I said I could make a "classic" one with new design and protecting walls at rocket platform. I wouldn't write again the same text probably. The protecting walls e.g. aren't part of "q3ctf4", so that is a bad idea, when you would say that the goal is to make the remake-map as similar as possible to q3ctf4. However... finally I would say it is good to leave the plain "oa_ctf4ish" or a version with very little design changes as the official remake of "q3ctf4" and not something from a possible "classic" version I talked about because it would have design elements that already have my "remixed" version. oa_ctf4ish (from 0.88) and remixed version are easier to distinguish.

gn
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adriano
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« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2016, 05:02:47 am »

Download here version s23c (I can't put it in the attachment for some reason)


You can test it with bots until it's available on a server (I'll let you know when it will happen)
Hf Wink
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 05:09:29 am by adriano » Logged
adriano
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« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2016, 02:25:48 pm »

Thanks to fg the map is now available on :F normal ctf for stupids ( /connect 62.75.152.253:27960 and /callvote map 4ish_test2 ). And once you are there, check out the new layout design (weaponbar, statusbar) on his server. http://www.stupidctf.tk/ for more information. Hf! =)
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Gig
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« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2016, 03:13:09 am »

Tried with bots. Funny!  Smiley
Although bots do not seem very interested in some of the features of the map...
Also, it looks like it's possible to reach the invulnerability items if you have 90 fps physics (pmove_msec 11, pmove_fixed 1, pmove_float 0)... only if you take the jumppad by jumping down from lateral platforms.
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adriano
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« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2016, 10:41:13 am »

After several games on 0.81 based :F server (people seem to like it =) I found some little things to adjust before the map gets final. I would be glad if you give some feedback.

- one blue teleporter texture is misaligned
- the side wall at rocketplatforms should be a little bit higher
- maybe I modify the rocketshooter: now it shoots in a stabilized direction but I try to let it shoot automatically on the target that is on that platform (I will try)
- it would be nice if I could customize the sound for the crusher (func_door) and the rocketshooter (shooter_rocket)... seems quite tricky to do  
- in 0.81 servers two textures are missing -> idk, should I replace them or put the two missing textures from 0.88 pack into the pk3? Also the 'invunerability' item isn't present in 0.81 version ofc but that does not cause problems to the gameplay because it isn't a central highly used item. The rest of the items... weapons,powerup,health (in my oppinion) are well placed and fit harmonic to the gameplay
- a nice final levelshot is missing

Tried with bots. Funny!  Smiley
Although bots do not seem very interested in some of the features of the map...
Thx. Yes, they don't seem to like the new features Cheesy Poor them... Grin
I don't see any solution to give them more interest, but nevertheless it is playable with bots.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 10:48:09 am by adriano » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2016, 12:50:06 pm »

0.8.1 -.-
That people shouldn't bother us for updates if they're not going to use them.
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Gig
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« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2016, 04:08:53 pm »

I would never suggest you to include in a map's pk3 files or shaders with the same exact path+filename of a baseoa file, not even if it's a copy of it. However you may place the copy under a new path/name.

This also means that overriding baseoa sounds with your own sounds by using the same path+filename would be a bad idea: that would affect all maps! If the entity supports the "noise" key use it (but very few do I fear), otherwise I suggest to just accept entity's default sound. Maybe you may link a door to a target_speaker, but I don't know if that would work (maybe a button operated door?) and how much that would be reliable...

About invulnerability, its model and effects have been added in 0.8.8 - in 0.8.5 it was technically working but invisible - in 0.8.1 I don't remember.

About bots, did you already try with item_botroam and playing with their "weight"?
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2016, 09:07:25 am »

0.8.1 had broken TA items, indeed. AFAIK only the weapons and their respective ammo boxes were fully modelled and working.
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Gig
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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2016, 02:31:06 pm »

NK, what's your opinion about the idea of putting both classic and remixed ctf4 in the tribute package?
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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