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Author Topic: Optional Elimination/LMS with items? (Like Q3R or even a bit of Battle Royale)  (Read 195 times)
Gig
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« on: June 18, 2018, 01:55:38 am »

Hello, here's some thinking about getting inspired by another Q3 Revolution (PS2 port of Q3) feature (we already took a good idea from there).

In short: what about adding an option to play in Elimination/CTF Elimination/Last Man Standing without removing items from the map? Maybe it may even give a bit of "Battle Royale"-ish feeling...

In detail:
OA Elimination is very similar to the Clan Arena mode from some Q3 mods: players are divided into teams, when you die you are out until the end of the round, you start with a server-defined amount of health/armor and weapons, while all weapons and items are removed from the map. OA Last Man Standing is similar, but players are not divided into teams and you may optionally (not by default) have more lives available before being put to spectate until the end of the round.
Q3 Revolution has got a mode called "Elimination", which is closer OA Last Man Standing (no teams, more lives available before being out), but however it's different, because there you start with machinegun only and you have to get resources around the arena as usual.

So, the idea would be an option to make OA Elimination/CTF-E/LMS modes where you still find weapons and bonuses around the arena. The concept sounds simple at beginning, however I thought that there may be various approaches to it.
- A) Like Q3R, you start with gauntlet, machinegun and standard health (just like FFA etc.).
- B) You start with the health/armor/weapon loadout set by elimination_* variables (server administrator controlled, e.g. he may decide to make players initially spawn with grenade launcher only), but then you can replenish your inventory by grabbing weapons and items around.
- C) A la "battle royale", make people spawn with default health and the gauntlet only (removing the default machinegun -and possibly any other weapon/item given by the map to players at spawn by target_give linked to spawn points-).[1]

One may implement just one of these, two of them, or all three of them...

Additional thoughts:
- We already have g_elimination cvar which, if set to 1, removes all items from modes other than Elim/CTFE/LMS. Maybe we may use the same cvar with higher values to work the opposite: to do NOT remove items from Elim/CTFE/LMS. Or we may use a new "elimination_something" cvar.
- Do you think that powerups such as Quad Damage may be overpowered in such modes? I do not remember if Q3R does keep or remove powerups in its Eliminaton mode (it's years I don't play that game), but maybe this is counter-balanced by the multiple lives, there. Maybe a DMFLAGS value or a g_powerups (like the existing g_runes) to optionally disable powerups? Just brainstorming! However, today's battle royale games (like PUBG or Fortnite) are already very punitive (you can be killed by a sniper even before touching the ground with the parachute), so being punitive[2] may not be a real problem (although of course, in OA after you die you will not be able to find another LMS server so easily, so you will probably have to wait to the end of the match.).
- In case of approach B), technically types A) and C) may be achieved by server admins by customizing elimination_* cvars, however maybe "shortcut" options to have them more easily may be nice.

Additional headache area:
- In case of approach C), removing the machinegun from initial spawn, what to do with its ammo boxes? Remove them from the map? Or make them spawn alternately with the weapon_machinegun (which is not included with maps, usually)?
-- And in case of approach B), should it be the server admin himself, in case he sets 0 ammo for machinegun, to set-up disabling and replacing items feature to remove/replace the machinegun ammo boxes? Or should the game automatically remove them (or make them spawn alternately with the weapon)?
- Maybe, the option to remove the machinegun (and other starting weapons from target_give linked to spawn points?) may also apply to other gametypes (FFA, etc.), in case it would be controlled by g_elimination? Do you think some players may appreciate it?

I fear some of these things may get a bit too complicated... maybe it's however possible to do something while keeping things simple enough. I just explained all the various thoughts I had about it, I'm not sure about which would be the better approach.

Needless to say, this is not a "must have" feature.... it's just an idea.

[1] Of course, I know this does not really include important parts of "battle royale" games mechanics, such as the ability to choose the area where to start and the closing "safe zone", and the map to reach it... I think that would be stuff for a mod, which would require its own, large, maps. I just said "a bit of battle royale-ish feeling". Smiley

[2] I'm not sure "punitive" is the right word. I mean to say that in those games you can be one-shotted out of nowhere and put out of the match in an instant by a sniper you don't know about, you can't completely avoid that risk... and that maybe being wiped out by a quad damage user may not be so different. Maybe.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 08:55:52 am by Gig » Logged

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sago007
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 04:10:01 pm »

I could imagine many variations. Like spawning with massive health but still had to pick up the weapons.
Option B would be the most simple.
Add simple option to re-add all items and let the rest be managed by elimination_* and disable_* cvars. Personally I would not allow health pickups to reduce the wait time.

If I remember correctly some places in the code assume that you always have the machine gun.
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Gig
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 01:19:39 am »

Add simple option to re-add all items and let the rest be managed by elimination_* and disable_* cvars. Personally I would not allow health pickups to reduce the wait time.
I also thought about the mode tweaking the respawn times of weapons and health/amor, to make them longer (and give more battle royale feeling, where finding resources isn't too easy). But then I thought that changing respawn timings may not be a "best pratice"... I don't know.

Quote
If I remember correctly some places in the code assume that you always have the machine gun.
I don't know. However, in Elimination/CTFE/LMS (and everywhere with g_elimination 1) you may play without machinegun, isn't it? Also in "instagib" and "allrockets" modes... or not?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 02:22:46 am by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 01:44:27 am »

Thinking again about it, considering it's just a side feature, probably it may be good to keep it simple and just re-add items, considering admins have the means to set initial loadout and remove the items they wish from the map. Some more work for server admins, but smaller changes in gamecode and thus less risk of adding bugs...

We may then add some configuration examples to the wiki, so people may copy-paste them in their configuration files to setup battle royale-ish matches more easily (and in such examples, we may also set an higher value for g_weaponRespawn if we wish).

About the cvar to enable such option, I can think to elimination_items or elimination_keepItems (default to 0)... or g_elimination 2. I can guess it should work in any gametype with g_elimination enabled.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 01:47:21 am by Gig » Logged

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sago007
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 10:37:02 am »

elimination_keep_items
Perhaps with some bit options like:
1 = enable
2 = but no health/armor
4 = but no power ups

Items properly needs to reset on round start.

An option to randomize all items may be needed as well.
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Gig
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 03:39:29 am »

I took the chance to create an example page on the wiki (Configuration examples/No powerups and holdable items) with the commands to remove powerups (using disabling and replacing items features). Maybe someone may like to experiment a match without powerups also in other modes, who knows... Wink
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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