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Author Topic: cheating accusations, going to far.  (Read 32569 times)
SnooSnoo
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2007, 02:20:00 AM »

Me feelz ya pain M8! Sorry to bring dis down 2 ya, but you are! Smiley
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heyzuphowsitgoin
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« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2007, 07:10:52 PM »

hmm i cant get multiplayer and if i enter a cheat into single player it doesnt load with all the bots (i type in /devmap [level name] and it doesnt load with bots...)
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hyp3rfocus
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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2007, 11:11:44 AM »

it's normal that if you start a map with \devmap there aren't any bots. you add them by typing something like...

\addbot beret

...in the console.
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Neil S
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2007, 12:06:43 PM »

So basically it's known and won't be fixed that people can exploit bugs to cheat and move ridiculously fast, which essentially makes CTF a total joke?

Oh well, I thought this game looked fun, but I guess not unless you only play against people you known, since it only takes one cheater on a public server to wreck it for everyone.
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fromhell
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2007, 12:18:06 PM »

but then if I fix these bugs the 'professional' players would complain that I have killed the game and that I should burn in Hell forever for ruining Carmack's visions of gameplay Sad
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Neil S
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« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2007, 12:24:50 PM »

but then if I fix these bugs the 'professional' players would complain that I have killed the game and that I should burn in Hell forever for ruining Carmack's visions of gameplay Sad
Eek, tight spot to be in, heh.

Well, maybe if there's server option one day I'll run a server again, heh.  But when someone can come in and zoom around the level to capture the flag over and over again, that's just not fun, and runs any interest I have in playing the game on public servers or running my server.
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Neil S
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« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2007, 12:40:25 PM »

Just let me add, though, that you all behind OA have done great work I think.  I've enjoyed it greatly since I first stumbled upon it.  If not for this one problem... heh, but given that this is an engine issue, I guess it's mostly out of scope.
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.Caboose.
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« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2007, 03:02:30 PM »

hey man!!!! do u play as plain old JoJo too? im .Caboose.  obviously, and im in the same boat u are. in any given server i go into that is reasonably filled with actual players i ALWAYS get accused of cheating. im like WTH do you expect from someone who played quake 1 2 3 hated 4 and now open arena? comming into oa i knew about fast movement. strafe and rocket jumping. plasma climbing. how to outrun my own rockets etc. i tell them i NEVER cheat, and i never have cheated in any game UNLESS you count me using wall hack while i was ADMINing a jedi outcast server for my old clan. that was ONLY to see what everyone was doing and keep track of reported LAMERS when they were not in sight. i never went in game with them active i was always spectating when i was admining. so you could HARDLY call that cheating. i dont let it bother me anymore. i take it as a serious compliment to have "botlike aim" while NEVER using them. hahahaha i barely have a 50 percent acc with the railgun. that's hardly botlike aim right? and as for 180 degere turns.... thats childs play..... bottom line is they just need an excuse for them getting their butt kicked in, and cheating is always the obvious excuse. why cant it ever be like " dang man u're better than me. "    ?
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2007, 03:41:52 PM »

I guess it's mostly out of scope.

No, its not.  The majority of the "zooming around" is caused by no limit on FPS and its not that difficult to force maxFPS to be reset to a reasonable number within the VM, if certain people don't like it... *shrugs*
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.Caboose.
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« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2007, 03:48:53 PM »

in all of my experimentation with quake 3 and OA i can run them at 1280x1024 res with EVERYTHING set to max at 300 fps. BUT i have found my shooting aiming and movment to be smoother with a /com_maxfps 125.  dont know why it just works better for me that way........ OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH try cg_truelightning 1 if you dont like the limp noodle effect of the lightning gun Wink
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sago007
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« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2007, 04:04:26 PM »

If not for this one problem... heh, but given that this is an engine issue, I guess it's mostly out of scope.

The code contains a fix for it that can quickly be enabled (literally one character) if you want to create a Counter Wannabe. In the code it mentions that the fix is the correct way to implement jumping but it feels 'wrong'.

This fix will also break most jumppads (I tried it).

It is located in the part of the code that is hard to make codependent on CVARs.

I have never understood how the clients FPS helps as all movement is calculated server side (that emulates the same number of frames for all clients) to prevent such exploits.
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2007, 04:39:27 PM »

I have never understood how the clients FPS helps as all movement is calculated server side (that emulates the same number of frames for all clients) to prevent such exploits.

Set com_maxfps to 125 (default is 85) and start bunny hopping across your ctf map and you'll see how the client FPS does matter, the same effect is increased when com_maxfps is set to 333.3.

The jump acceleration code shouldn't be altered because it works without issue, just add a cvar check to game or cgame that forces any setting of com_maxfps above 110 to 110 and the the fairly well known jump exploit is solved without changing gameplay for the majority of people.

Note:  This has to be done in the VM to prevent people from reverting the changes in the client itself where maxfps is currently set.
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next_ghost
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« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2007, 04:57:13 PM »

ETPro has fixed this issue by adding pmove_fixed server side cvars which sets simulated client framerate.
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w1zrd
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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2007, 02:19:08 AM »

I guess it's mostly out of scope.

No, its not.  The majority of the "zooming around" is caused by no limit on FPS and its not that difficult to force maxFPS to be reset to a reasonable number within the VM, if certain people don't like it... *shrugs*
The majority of people are "zooming around" since our CTF maps are designed with huge straight areas with no obstacles (oa_bases, hydronex, osago2f2, e.t.c) which people which skills enough to bunny jump use to their advantage. If they didn't have the straights, or the skill to do the jumps, then it wouldn't be a problem. You can't bunny jump around tight corners in VQ3 physics, it's a different story in CPM though.

 Of course we can lock down the speed so that nobody can ever jump faster than 320ups, but then we shoot ourselves in the foot because probably the vast majority of people want to be able to have some action going on, and not be walking around as a stroll in the park with a lollipop in their hand.

(Off-topic)
I have deliberately been training bunny hops, strafe jumps and other (stupid) tricks with /com_maxfps set to 60 in order to understand the reason why we would need to implement a FPS restriction. The fact is, with proper training and the right technique you can easily reach speeds over 1100 ups within a few seconds. A rocket goes roughly 930 ups. So, are we looking at the right place for a 'cheat-prevention'?
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2007, 03:24:02 AM »

The fact is, with proper training and the right technique you can easily reach speeds over 1100 ups within a few seconds.

So there is no reason not to cap the FPS and the professional players shouldn't complain that we've killed the game.
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w1zrd
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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2007, 03:32:23 AM »

The fact is, with proper training and the right technique you can easily reach speeds over 1100 ups within a few seconds.

So there is no reason not to cap the FPS and the professional players shouldn't complain that we've killed the game.
Nope, only others opinions to worry about.
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2007, 04:46:05 AM »

from that post:

Quote
Setting max fps 125 is fine (125, not 120 although 120 rounds to 125 in any case) and has good reasons for the limit
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w1zrd
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« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2007, 04:52:28 AM »

from that post:

Quote
Setting max fps 125 is fine (125, not 120 although 120 rounds to 125 in any case) and has good reasons for the limit
Well, he knows better than me. As far as I'm aware he has been involved in development for Q3.
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.Caboose.
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2007, 06:43:03 PM »

why cant you guys also accept that some "new" players may have played all the quakes b4 this....... not to mention the jedi knight games in the same engine. and i see no reason to limit FPS when my 5 year old system runs this at whatever fps i want it to.
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WH173Ru5Tty
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« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2007, 08:38:45 PM »

In ET I have been banned from servers for aimbotting, even though I wasn't in first place that round...
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w1zrd
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2007, 10:31:50 AM »

why cant you guys also accept that some "new" players may have played all the quakes b4 this....... not to mention the jedi knight games in the same engine. and i see no reason to limit FPS when my 5 year old system runs this at whatever fps i want it to.
One of the main arguments I've had against capping the FPS was that Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3 and Quake 4 (only to mention the Quake ones) has this engine bug that allows key-framerates at 58 fps, 62 fps, 74 fps, 125 fps, 333.3 fps and so on..as ir-ix mentioned, it would create a rift between people who are used to the quake (even ioquake) standards and us. Also as mentioned earlier, not even Carmack would want to change it since it's a feature and not a bug Smiley

Here is an interesting post on the FPS subject, even though it's old.
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000822-3-015173.html

[edit: this post give even more info]

[edit: and this is how the shaders look in the different settings. (Note: this is Q3)]
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 10:35:40 AM by w1zrd » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2007, 12:29:10 PM »

If the information in w1zrd's post's links are correct the fps bug can be solved by setting "pmove_fixed" to '1' (default : 0), since the constant framerate I thought I had seen in the code is not on by default.
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2007, 07:09:32 PM »

...has this engine bug that allows key-framerates at 58 fps, 62 fps, 74 fps, 125 fps, 333.3 fps and so on...

Are those correct?  Most communities say 43, 75, 125, and 333.
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w1zrd
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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2007, 09:52:44 PM »

...has this engine bug that allows key-framerates at 58 fps, 62 fps, 74 fps, 125 fps, 333.3 fps and so on...

Are those correct?  Most communities say 43, 75, 125, and 333.

There are many values that work as key-values. As I recall it's 74 and not 75, but I might be wrong. 43 was news to me, but 58 works as far as I know.
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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2007, 01:35:10 AM »

If someone could give th
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