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OpenArena Contributions => Development => Topic started by: chaoticsoldier on May 11, 2009, 04:39:08 AM



Title: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on May 11, 2009, 04:39:08 AM
Work is continuing on the new bot chat. This is the plan of attack and current progress:
[Colour Key: O = Presentable,  O = In progress,  O = Not started]

1) Initial chats for each character
(Lines conceived, files not written. Lines subject to change on a whim, but many are finalised for first draft.)
1st files written: Merman, Beret, Tony, Sergei, Assassin, Sarge, Ayumi
Substantially filled: Major, Gargoyle, S_Marine, Skelebot, Liz
Moderately filled: Angelyss, Rai, Sorceress, Arachna, Neko, Kyonshi, Penguin
Still fairly empty: -
Practically untouched: -
Left out (for now at least): Dark, Tanisha, Jenna
Duplicated: Grunt = S_Marine,  Grism = Sarge

2) Random strings
Completed for now. (More strings might still be added, depending on how initial chat files go.)

3) Reply chats
Completed for now. (I want to add even more stuff, but I still want to get the other files done too.)

4) Synonyms
Done.

5) Flag words not to be replaced with synonyms
Only initial chat files remain, but they haven't been created yet.

6) Team chat
I might leave these for some future release of OA.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on May 11, 2009, 04:48:34 AM
[EDIT: This post has been updated. All personalities are current as of 06/06/10]

I'm having trouble coming up with unique personalities for each bot. I need ideas. These are the personalities I've already established:

Skelebot: Speaks like a robot. Takes things literally. Believes machines are far superior.
Ayumi: Serial complainer. Dislikes all maps.
Assassin: Sadist. Enjoys fragging others and causing gibs.
Sarge: Experienced and hardened fighter. Honourable.
Merman: Blasé and casual. Sarcastic attitude. Disregards scores.
Beret: Cocky and confident. Reckons he's tough.
Gargoyle: Makes wisecracks. Tries to put players off and be funny.
Tony: 1920's gangster complete with accent.
Sergei: Obnoxious. Throws insults around.
Major: Stern and unrelenting. She's good and she knows it. Doesn't tolerate unskillfulness.
Angelyss: Relatively pleasant demeanour. Doesn't use bad language or call others names.
Liz: Lighthearted and entertaining. Immature and unskillful.
S_Marine: Modest winner and gracious loser. Polite. Encouraging.
Rai: Makes excuses for losing. Nothing is her fault.
Neko: Nut job who thinks she is a real cat. Dislikes animal cruelty.
Penguin: Stereotypical "nerd". Think's he's good, but plays poorly. Disapproves of nerd stereotype.
Kyonshi: Undefined. But she's getting lines :-)
Arachna: Undefined.
Sorceress: Undefined.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on May 11, 2009, 05:23:52 AM
I'd say Skelebot should be a type of Data or Seven of Nine from Star Trek. That personality is too humanish. So Skelebot should be a type of effectiveness. Your Skelebot personality should go to Ayumi.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 11, 2009, 07:11:17 AM
Cosmo and I, (I had made some bios) were giving separate personalities to every bot in the SP campaign, you can look at it (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18981#msg18981) if you like. :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: pulchr on May 11, 2009, 07:21:44 AM
i like how one of the bots dislike all maps. that's funny :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Cacatoes on May 11, 2009, 07:22:51 AM
And there is an history for each of these characters, not complete but available here : (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Characters
You may mainly stick on what's written on these wiki pages.

I may have some ideas too ;) Main problem is i'm not fluent enough in english ..


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: pulchr on May 11, 2009, 08:47:22 AM
I may have some ideas too ;) Main problem is i'm not fluent enough in english ..

and how do we know the bots know english? i'm sure the "robot-bots" like skelebot and s_marine would have problem with english phrases and proverbials.
i would like a bot with very bad grammar and strange ways of combining the words into sentences. or a french speaking bot? ;)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on May 11, 2009, 09:16:18 AM
@ Graion Dilach: I like your suggestion. This would be achievable. Some lines would have to stay with Skelebot, but it is actually possible to transfer many lines to Ayumi without losing context. I'll experiment with this and attempt to make Skelebot's speech machinelike.


Cosmo and I, (I had made some bios) were giving separate personalities to every bot in the SP campaign, you can look at it (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18981#msg18981) if you like. :D
And there is an history for each of these characters, not complete but available here : (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Characters
You may mainly stick on what's written on these wiki pages.
Are any of these profiles definitive/official? Both links feature different bios for the same characters.
Is the single player campaign being worked on at the moment?


@ pulchr: I always thought S_Marine was a person in a special suit...   Nekoyss currently has appalling grammar and syntax, but I thought this was something to be "fixed". :)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: pulchr on May 11, 2009, 09:45:47 AM
oh, i always thought s_marine was a robot. it was just an idea - i see how intentional bad grammar could upset people :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 11, 2009, 11:02:37 AM
Cosmo and I, (I had made some bios) were giving separate personalities to every bot in the SP campaign, you can look at it (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18981#msg18981) if you like. :D
Are any of these profiles definitive/official? Both links feature different bios for the same characters.
Is the single player campaign being worked on at the moment?
I've started to do that after 0.8.1 release, and cosmo made some work with bot AI too. We're (or at least I'm :P) waiting for other map commitments to finish it before the launch of the new version.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Snickersnack on May 11, 2009, 06:24:14 PM
I may have some ideas too ;) Main problem is i'm not fluent enough in english ..

and how do we know the bots know english? i'm sure the "robot-bots" like skelebot and s_marine would have problem with english phrases and proverbials.
i would like a bot with very bad grammar and strange ways of combining the words into sentences. or a french speaking bot? ;)

Skelebot knows some english. He always telling me to kiss his arse! :(


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on May 24, 2009, 12:48:10 AM
Progress in first post updated.

As Graion Dilach suggested, Skelebot's lines were (more suitably) given to Ayumi and Skelebot's speech will become more like Seven of Nine (and perhaps Robocop :)).


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: cosmo on May 27, 2009, 05:22:53 AM
I've started to do that after 0.8.1 release, and cosmo made some work with bot AI too. We're (or at least I'm :P) waiting for other map commitments to finish it before the launch of the new version.

Actually my goal was to have more distinctive behavior for each of them since most of the current bots fight equally because their AI files were created by copy & paste. An increasing challenge difficulty in single player was another target to achieve.

I'm looking forward to see your changes, chaoticsoldier. Keep up the good work. If you like you can get non-English phrases to mix up some of the bots. Would be interesting though.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on May 27, 2009, 06:58:07 AM
Thanks cosmo. I've contemplated the inclusion of non-English phrases, but I don't know how it would work out. I was confused when I first saw Sergei say "Das schlechteste setzt sich durch" (my only language is English). I knew the words were German but I had no idea what it meant, so to me it was just a meaningless phrase. Adding too many non-English phrases would be bad for English speakers.

On the other hand, players who don't speak English well are probably missing out on the bot chat altogether. Perhaps all the chat files could be completely translated into other languages? In the future it may be possible to add a feature where one can select the language of the bots (and maybe the menus as well?)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 04, 2009, 01:51:28 AM
I was just pondering:

When a bot says a player's name, they say it all in lower case with no spaces. It would be nice if they quoted player names using the correct case and with spaces included (but minus colours of course).
Would it be feasible to fix this for a future version, or is this an intentional (or unavoidable) thing?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: sago007 on June 04, 2009, 02:37:34 PM
I think that the bots formulate the names like that so the answer can be interpreted by other bots (important for orders but also responses). If a bot uses a funny name with spaces she might not notice that another bot is making fun of her.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 04, 2009, 11:50:12 PM
Ah, ok. Thank you sago.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 14, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
Just an update: Progress continues, but this is going to take a lot longer than I first anticipated. :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: jaypur on June 14, 2009, 09:13:35 PM
i think im gonna make a bot chat and bot names in brazilian portuguese...


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on July 22, 2009, 09:42:08 AM
I know what I said here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3048.msg24914#msg24914), but I've decided one or two non-English phrases probably wouldn't be too bad.

I was thinking of giving a handful of Japanese lines to Neko, but they'd have to be written phonetically with the English alphabet, like: "BFG wa doko ni arimasu ka?" It's OK when the bots say "hum kah chan" which is Chinese, so I guess it should be OK for Japanese too.

Perhaps Tony could speak a little Italian and Kyonshi might say more things in Chinese. I was also thinking about giving out some German or French lines to Sergei, but I don't know which language would suit him more...


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 22, 2009, 11:23:25 AM
German can go well.
I've added some more missing bios to the SP. (IMHO we should work together in this part to get a single coherent work instead of many works which doesn't get connected each other)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: cosmo on July 23, 2009, 01:28:07 AM
Sergei should talk Russian. Damnit.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: andrewj on July 23, 2009, 06:27:05 AM
It's OK when the bots say "hum kah chan" which is Chinese
I don't think it is Chinese (definitely not Mandarin, and doesn't look like Cantonese).

Kyonshi is a Japanese name, she really ought to speak Japanese (even if the concept is Chinese), though I do dig the current "ni hao ma".

Sergei: what cosmo said.

Beret: perhaps some French for him?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Falkland on July 23, 2009, 08:40:34 AM
Perhaps Tony could speak a little Italian ...

Since Tony is a real gangster coming directly from the 1920 , it should speak some "GodFather-like" language  :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on July 23, 2009, 09:03:48 AM
...IMHO we should work together in this part to get a single coherent work...
I agree :).  I will look carefully at your SP campaign and the character profiles on Friday afternoon. I will probably have some questions or comments about each character. Once we polish the characterisation, then we will know how to make the AI match it. I think we should focus on one character at a time. What do you think?

(fromhell has other plans for Neko: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg25048#msg25048)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the multilingual bots
cosmo and andrewj are right. The thought of Sergei talking some Russian actually crossed my mind briefly a few days ago when I read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_(first_name)) that the name "Sergei" is a Russian variant of "Serge". But I came up with German and French because 1) in the current bot files, Sergei already speaks some German  2) Pulchr suggested a French-speaking bot in Reply #6.
But Russian it will be. ;)

Beret speaking French instead makes more sense also. So it could be like this:

Sergei - Russian
Beret - French
Neko - Japanese
Tony - Italian

Their scripts would still be predominantly English, but with a few non-English phrases interspersed amongst the rest. I'm not sure it would really affect the single-player campaign too much. I may need help for some of the non-English lines when I get to them.

Since Tony is a real gangster coming directly from the 1920 , it should speak some "GodFather-like" language  :D
:D I thought of this also. I've been trying to give him that accent/manner of speech. In one line he refers to his Tommy Gun and he says stuff like "Ain't nobody does that to Tony and gets away with it!". Unfortunately I haven't written a great deal of lines for him yet.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: fromhell on July 23, 2009, 09:38:22 AM
When I came up with Tony, I hadn't even seen The GodFather yet. At that point I was just picking up the usual stereotypes you'd find in Time Splitters which is a game i'm highly drawing inspiration from for OA.

Neko and Ayumi are both Japanese, though different mindsets - Neko thinks she's an idol (after a dozen or so hideous animal implants), Ayumi doesn't.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on August 31, 2009, 09:59:22 AM
Updated progress in first post.

I attached a draft of Assassin's lines so far. There's still a bit to go yet. Some characters are more complete in some areas than others. Feedback would be very nice. :)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 17, 2009, 01:25:48 AM
I'm back after spending about a month away from OA. I'll start to get back onto this now.

BTW, does anyone know if we ended up getting permission to use the Brainworks bots?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: cosmo on November 17, 2009, 03:34:11 AM
The autor of Brainworkz bots told me I should bug him if he does not dual license it in time. ;)
I need to check and send him another email...

Looking forward to see your new botchats.
@NeonKnight: Did you submit the new SP to SVN already? Would be good to have it in RC2 for testing.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 17, 2009, 05:59:19 AM
Yep, but it's just the version you uploaded to this forum with a temporal arrangement.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Falkland on November 17, 2009, 09:29:42 AM
The autor of Brainworkz bots told me I should bug him if he does not dual license it in time. ;)
I need to check and send him another email...

Brainworks code _cannot_ be used as it is now : it needs to be _ported_ to OAX : the code is generally a bit more dirty than Gladiators bots code ( ID bots ) , it comes without MP support , it produces lots of warnings and it had also some issues in headers inclusion last time I've tried to port it.

Anyway I've produced a diff between original q3 1.32b sources and brainworks code : http://www.filefront.com/14941479/brainworks.diff


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 06, 2010, 12:14:00 AM
Progress is going good again. :D
I updated the status in the first 2 posts. I am quite happy with Tony and Assassin.

Many thanks to Graion for your ideas and contributions.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on June 06, 2010, 05:33:37 AM
Ah, never mind. I got too much free time.

Still, I'll keep my version updated. It took me some time to sychronize them... but that just means I still work on that as well. Although I wrote 2-3 lines today...

Link won't change.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 13, 2010, 10:00:04 PM
HELP!  ???   :'(

I made a test pk3 for Assassin today. He's not finished, I just thought I'd give him a spin.

The game reads the initial chats from assassin_t.c just fine but the random strings in rnd.c aren't being read at all. It comes up with the same error for each string.
Example:
Error: BotConstructChat: unknown random string interjection_negative

So I tried it with other bots and they can't use rnd.c either.

I've looked at everything in that file. There are no illegal characters that I know of. Every line starts with " and ends in ";. Every string starts and ends with the brackets too. Syntax looks fine.

Are there character restrictions, size limits or something else that I am not obeying? I attached a copy of the pk3. Could someone please have a look and find my error?



Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: andrewj on June 14, 2010, 03:10:45 AM
I see this error:
Code:
Error: file rnd.c, line 449: expected ,, found }

The string on the line has a semicolon inside it instead of after it.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on June 14, 2010, 04:38:25 AM
Brilliant! Thanks a lot!!!  I pored over the file twice and still didn't find that.  :-[
It's funny how one misplaced character can render the file useless. Everything is working fine now. :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on June 14, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
It's funny how one misplaced character can render the file useless.
It's computing. ^_^


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: GrosBedo on July 21, 2010, 08:56:44 AM
It's funny how one misplaced character can render the file useless.
It's computing. ^_^

It's formal language :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_language

Anyway, what about including Brainworks code into ioq3 ? Is there any progress ?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on December 27, 2010, 07:05:53 AM
Just an update. As you can see, it's been a while.

Progress has been good lately! I updated the status in the first post to show what's going on. Tons of new lines have been added, rnd.c is a healthy 40kb now, and today I started writing rchat.c (I had lots written down on paper for it, but now I'm actually rewriting the file.)

You might notice most of the female characters' files are listed as "moderately filled". I've been finding it harder to write for them, but I'm getting there. :)

I haven't touched syn.c yet. I was thinking of keeping it simple so people can understand it - so no silly nicknames for characters and weapons to begin with. sago007 summed up the reason for this nicely:
While I can understand the urge to make the bot sound more real, I believe the chat are the least of there problem. Also bots speaking correctly have the benefit that they are easier to understand for people who are not that good in English. This is actually somewhat important. A few grammatical errors or slang and the message becomes unreadable by many.

Intentional badly typed text also gives a very negative expression about a product and is generally warned against. Not that it needs to be formal just not lazy. Even if you are lazy there is no reason to give yourself away.

One thing that's been bugging me though, is American English vs British English. I'm going to include both versions of commonly-used-but-differently-spelt (or spelled, see? :D) words in syn.c, so the bots can understand them (very important), but they can also use them interchangeably.

If we decide to have the bots speak only one variant in particular, I could do it easily enough. Any thoughts?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Falkland on December 27, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
Anyway, what about including Brainworks code into ioq3 ? Is there any progress ?

There's a new ioq3 based project that includes Brainworks instead of ID bots and the author wrote also a tutorial : http://dev.qlone.org/wiki/brainworks/start


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on December 27, 2010, 03:45:13 PM
GPL v3, Falkland. Unfortunately, they're uncompatible.

Hmm... I should've finish q3chat.c soon. Only MISC, TAUNT and PRAISE entries are missing.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: fromhell on December 27, 2010, 04:07:30 PM
I tried the "mad libs" (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3899.0) approach. The overwhelming feedback I have recieved has been truly motivating.



Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Falkland on December 27, 2010, 06:33:03 PM
GPL v3, Falkland. Unfortunately, they're uncompatible.

In fact I wrote an answer for a question and gave the input for whom is still interested in ID bot AI code substitution with Brainworks .

Anyway , I found a real thesis about ID bots long time ago : http://www.kbs.twi.tudelft.nl/Publications/MSc/2001-VanWaveren-MSc.html ... maybe it could be still useful.



Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on December 27, 2010, 07:13:07 PM
Oh, sorry. I missed the quote and I thought it's about Brainworks in OA...


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on February 26, 2011, 03:52:17 AM
W00t! I've finished rnd.c and rchat.c for the time being. (I took a break from writing initial chat lines for a little while.)

Now I'll move on to syn.c, which shouldn't take as long to edit. Once the synonyms are done I've got to go back to the other files and pump them full of tildes so they will be 100% complete.

After that, I'll finish those initial chat lines...

(Updated status in first post.)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on March 06, 2011, 05:51:13 PM
First versions of syn.c, rnd.c and rchat.c are complete.

Just the initial chat files to go now. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.  :D

(Updated status in first post.)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: fromhell on March 06, 2011, 06:24:21 PM
CAN I HAVE EM!!? SO FAR!


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on March 07, 2011, 06:59:36 AM
Sure :D

The initial chat lines are still in that xls spreadsheet you couldn't open before. Do you still want them?
I was only going to create the _i.c files once I had the lines all sorted out.

Also, there is Graion's q3chat.c file as well, but I won't post it because I'm not sure if he has reviewed the latest edits I proposed yet.


EDIT: I should mention that there are naughty words in rchat.c (all of them at the end). The bots don't say them, but they do respond to them.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on March 07, 2011, 07:13:01 AM
Just sent the reply while you posted this up. :D

Go for it.

EDIT: After further discussions I dare say this one is also finished. Went with the 'fishes'-modification regarding TAUNT5, Chaoticsoldier.

For those who would like to use the old bot _t.c-s along with the new main core files, the amount of mismatches can be reduced with adding my q3chat in.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 17, 2011, 05:13:43 AM
Getting there... It's been a while since I posted in this thread :)

Progress is slow, but I have some holidays coming up in a week or so. First versions of Assassin, Beret, Merman, Sarge, Sergei and Tony are finally written. I hope to get more done soon. Any feedback is welcome.



Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on September 19, 2011, 11:59:53 AM
Getting there... It's been a while since I posted in this thread :)

Progress is slow, but I have some holidays coming up in a week or so. First versions of Assassin, Beret, Merman, Sarge, Sergei and Tony are finally written. I hope to get more done soon. Any feedback is welcome.

Will this fix the problem that bots ignore my team orders?

EDIT: After a first test, i've got an "Error: BotConstructChat: unknown random string: DEATH_FEM_INSULT3". The line just before that one was "Tony: Wow, you really mean business!"; the line just after that one was: "Kyonshi was gunned down by Sarge" (I had a couple of bots that were not from your list of new chat).
A similar error, but with DEATH_FEM_INSULT0, appeared later (a short later than Sarge blew himself up), when Tony fired a rocket that killed both himself and Kyonshi.

EDIT2: Bots continue to ignore my team orders, e.g they do not "report" when I ask for it... and what the heck are they doing in this screenshot? (Map is oa_bases7) Probably this one is not related to your patch...


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: fromhell on September 19, 2011, 12:30:44 PM
they love the platform in that map, it's their hangout

I know I should've used a jump pad instead, I mapped it for quake then backported it to OA and didn't change the lifts


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 20, 2011, 07:03:41 AM
(I had a couple of bots that were not from your list of new chat).
This is the reason for the first few errors you saw. So far, only the 6 bots I mentioned will work properly with these new files. The new random strings all have different names (to the point of not using any of the names that Q3 used). Any bots not on the list will still try to reference the old strings, although they no longer exist.

Bots continue to ignore my team orders
6) Team chat
I might leave these for some future release of OA.
My primary aim is to get a bunch of working personalities for the bots in FFA. Team chat is another thing which I would like to look at some other time.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on September 20, 2011, 07:57:50 AM
(I had a couple of bots that were not from your list of new chat).
This is the reason for the first few errors you saw. So far, only the 6 bots I mentioned will work properly with these new files. The new random strings all have different names (to the point of not using any of the names that Q3 used). Any bots not on the list will still try to reference the old strings, although they no longer exist.
What? Improving Q3 bot compatibility should be important... someone (I think Graion Dilach) time ago created a patch to allow bots designed for quake 3 to work in OpenArena (patch is linked DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/FAQ#Models_and_bots_designed_for_Quake_3]here (http://([b)... I should do a search to find the forum thread). Why are you removing bot compatibility now? Or maybe I misunderstood something?  ???


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on September 20, 2011, 09:39:41 AM
Yes. Tho I disappeared for some time ago from this project for reasons I don't even remember now (probably partly due to the reason that I moved onto new seas around New Year) I finished the shim for the chat part for Chaotic's new system before I left.

During the planning of the new bot chat, we specifically agreed that unlike OA 0.8 bots, the new bot chat shouldn't use entries with the same name as in Quake 3 and those entries should be only for imported bot and legacy compatibility.

IIRC the finished pack around that time was also posted in this topic and while I don't know if it got broken since my last involvement, I pretty well doubt that happened. So don't worry, I guess that issue is merely just a packaging one for the time being which I guess can be fixed with q3chat.pk3 somewhere uploaded into this topic.

EDIT: Ah, so I only uploaded a .c... OK, then... I'm gonna do the pk3 in a moment.

EDIT2: OK, it seems I either messed up something half a year ago, or I forgot. -_- Will go and finish it in a moment.

EDIT3: DEATH_FEM_INSULT0 and DEATH_FEM_INSULT3 are indeed missing, my fault. (To be exact, in Quake3, the entries are DEATH_FEM_INSULT, DEATH_FEM_INSULT1 and DEATH_FEM_INSULT2 (which are in) and I didn't noticed OA has the above two as well. --')

EDIT4: Ok, added. If you see something similar, that will probably be my issue, too.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on September 20, 2011, 10:48:17 AM
So, q3 bot compatibility will remain, in some way? It's important that mixing OA and Q3 bots in the same match (in every gametype) we will not get bad errors.

Anyway, a curiosity: what's the purpose of changing all strings? It seems to me that in another thread we said that variables names were "too less" to be subject to copyright, also considering that the source code in GPL should already contain their names, being able to interpret them... I suppose this switch may also make harder to program team orders (when you will have time to do that), considering that Q3 and OA bots should potentially coexist forever. And do not forget old mods compatibility...

Anyway, I trust in you, guys!  :)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Cacatoes on September 20, 2011, 11:00:26 AM
Anyway, I put my trust in you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oMFMRv5c3o), guys!  :)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on September 20, 2011, 03:15:50 PM
Anyway, a curiosity: what's the purpose of changing all strings?

Personalities. Chaoticsoldier have already did a great job to divert the bots, to fill them with life. That brought in that rnd.c where all the shared lines were got messed up, due to the fact that the majority of it went out into the characters and it effectively transformed into an entirely incompatible file.

This was around when I was in the middle of the Q3 shim, so it was logical to pick the other portion, the "providing legacy lines" - part.

But if you play with the updated characters you will understand what I mean.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 05, 2011, 03:39:13 AM
Newest version is here. It includes Graion's edits to q3chat.c, added files for Ayumi, and a few minor corrections in other files.

Not much really, but stay tuned...  ;)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: fromhell on November 07, 2011, 05:53:03 AM
alright if I put this in the SUPER SOON UPCOMING 088?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on November 11, 2011, 02:12:29 AM
Chaoticsoldier, Graion... in the OA 0.8.8 RC 11119 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4344.0) some error messages with the new bot chat still occur.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 11, 2011, 07:23:29 AM
Sorry, I missed the post... and within a day, it's almost impossible to get them all.

I know curse is missing, there was something other I missed out - again (DEATH_FALLING0, maybe)... and it appears the random message b part is also needed.

I'll see what I can do.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 14, 2011, 09:31:50 PM
Chaoticsoldier, Graion... in the OA 0.8.8 RC 11119 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4344.0) some error messages with the new bot chat still occur.

(I had a couple of bots that were not from your list of new chat).
This is the reason for the first few errors you saw. So far, only the 6 bots I mentioned will work properly with these new files. The new random strings all have different names (to the point of not using any of the names that Q3 used). Any bots not on the list will still try to reference the old strings, although they no longer exist.

It's the same reason. Because the new version is just a patch, the old botfiles are still there. The new botfiles are trying to coexist, but they are incompatible. Any bots I haven't rewritten yet will still try to reference strings that don't exist in the new rnd.c file anymore.

It's probably not a good idea to include my new chat files until I eventually finish all the bots, as there could always be compatibility errors.

*You could possibly write dummy blank _t.c chat files for everyone except the bots I finished (Merman, Beret, Tony, Sergei, Assassin, Sarge, Ayumi), making those 7 bots the only ones that speak for the time being... until I finish the other bots, hopefully in time for the release after next. (I have at least 4 more bots I could publish right now, but I just haven't had the time lately.)

I never really intended for both the old and new versions to exist at the same time, because it causes errors. I planned to finish all the new files and then have them instantly replace the old stuff completely so everything would work properly straight away.

* OR - We could do a workaround and add the 'curse' string, 'peeps' string etc. back temporarily, but I think it just wastes time. I could better spend the time completing those other bots which are almost done.  @Graion: If you would like to do this and add those missing strings from the original OA into q3chat temporarily, then that's fine. They would fill the gaps and stop the errors, and the other q3chat lines will replace the other chat lines until I finish writing all the other bots.
(NOTE: fromhell didn't want some words to appear in the chat files, and some of those strings, such as the 'curse' and 'vicious_insult' strings in the old rnd.c were amended in the svn. So you can't just copy the old lines over from your baseoa folder. See what lines were deleted here (http://openarena.ws/svn/botfiles/rnd.c).


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on November 15, 2011, 02:20:37 AM
... and Graion's patch, then?

Anyway, backwards compatibility is important, IMHO, even if only to support bots designed for q3. Further breaking q3 compatibility is bad. (DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO]NOTTODO page (http://([b) mentions to do not break q3 mods, and mods may contain bots, too.)

IMHO, q3 bot compatibilty should not be only temporary... it is part of OA goals, isn't it?

Are you sure there is no way to both keep q3 compatibility and preventing bots from saying the worst words, forever?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 15, 2011, 02:25:49 AM
I heard about the change. This weekend will be 5 days long for me, so I'll add in the b section, both in Q3 and OA.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 15, 2011, 05:35:31 AM
The thing is that we also had a lot of time since the 0.8.5 patch and even more time after the 0.8.1 version.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 15, 2011, 10:55:16 AM
I don't know how you think, but I can't work without a pressure to keep my interest and me motivated. This was the main reason I did almost nothing in this year... I moved to a project where 'til recently, I was under pressure. Also, the year doesn't shaping up quite well, neither.

So yeah, now that there is a motivation, now I want it to get done. That's all.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Peter Silie on November 15, 2011, 12:44:45 PM
This is some kind of good pressure and mostly welcome by me too :D


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 17, 2011, 11:55:07 AM
And here it goes, I went through on it again. I did missed out some entries.  :-X


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 18, 2011, 09:25:18 AM
Update of update... I had 7 typos.  :-X


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on November 18, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
The patch included in 088 beta 111118 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4355.0) is the one from yesterday, or earlier? Because I still found red chat errors with it.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 18, 2011, 01:33:34 PM
Yeah, the one from yesterday. :-\

One typo renders the file useless.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on November 26, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
Cause of the errors in the previous version of the patch, Fromhell removed the whole thing in 088 RC1 (and erroneously removed also the q3 bots weapons patch in the process!), thus I haven't been able to test the current version. Graion, have you done some more tests in the last days?


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 26, 2011, 05:13:31 AM
Well, errors from q3chat-side were shot in the head.

On the other hand, Chaotic's rchat throws out 4 warnings in the console, and I haven't looked into them yet. rchat is his area.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 27, 2011, 02:38:44 AM
Are you talking about the ones where it says stuff like:
Quote
Warning: file rchat.c, line 523: the key say with prefix ! is inside the key sayonara
I looked at those a long time ago, but there's nothing erroneous going on.
I'll explain.

If you write "Sayonara everybody!", the bots see the word Sayonara and might reply with something like "Leaving so soon?"
But if you write "...in Japan we say sayonara where in England you would say goodbye" or "they told me to say sayonara", the bots won't reply because the word say is in the same sentence and you actually aren't saying goodbye at all.

It only appears as an error because "say" is also part of the word "sayonara". However, all the replies actually work fine and the bots respond to those strings just the way I want them to.

If I can't find a way to stop the errors being reported, I will just remove the problematic keys later on, but it's nothing serious.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 27, 2011, 04:41:08 AM
Ah, I see.

Well, if I really would look into it, I might realize it on my own, but thanks for the explanation. BTW, in the last update, I added in the B segment into q3chat as well, might worth a mention.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 01, 2011, 06:24:28 AM
Just so you know... :P

0.8.8 final has a lot of bots because the game at this point has a lot of FFA maps, but don't worry. 0.9.0 and/or OA3 will have way less bots because there will be less maps, so we might as well work on just a few bots.

It's better that way, less work to worry about.

(The SP of that topic will suffer a huge overhaul after 0.8.8 is released)


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Gig on December 01, 2011, 07:34:31 AM
Far less maps? Far less bots? :-/

That does not sound very good... :-/


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 01, 2011, 08:11:27 AM
It's because of the removal of the tribute maps. (They go into a separated tribute pack)

Most of the FFA maps are tribute maps, anyway. Without them, the amount of FFA maps goes to 23/24 maps.

Also, we need the space in arenas.txt. We've reached the limit.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Peter Silie on December 01, 2011, 02:35:22 PM
Maybe there should be some kind of "community pack" which includes some of the not well fitting maps too (regarding to the mainline concept).
So you would be able to install oa and 2 further expansion packs.


Title: Re: New Bot Chat
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 01, 2011, 03:26:01 PM
There's already a Tribute pack in the works (It contains the maps as seen in 0.8.8, plus some changes)

It's only available by compiling it via SVN, though.