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Ok so today I had a noob camping on oa_ctf4ish right where the railgun is on the platform above MY base. And as you know it is very hard and annoying, if at all possible  >:(, to kill someone camping up there.The problem is that from that perch they can push you off a ledge and kill you if you even try to get on a jumppad to get up to them. Your only hope is if they make a mistake and miss. I don't know how to make changes to maps myself but I was wondering if someone else could. What I think should be done is to add a trap similar to the floating red orb in tourney6ish_ctf. This would eliminate campers. If they camp there they get squished and if they camp elsewhere they will run out of ammo and are much easier to kill. Please leave any suggestions you have other then to try and kick them which has flaws as well, i.e. namechangers and if you can't get the votes.

Yo, welcome there, we already met on the servers ;)

Someone already had the idea of such trap there, but nobody tried to do it.
I'm not sure but namechangers problem could have been fixed with 0.8.5 version, also, it's easier to get positive results when calling the vote.

On that matter, the counter of votes acts weirdly, sometimes it counts my vote as a no while it is a yes, and vice versa. Sometimes the number of people voting yes decreases. Maybe it has been fixed in recent OAX versions, I didn't give a try.

Well your not the first to have this problem and you certainly won’t be the last until this map is changed. Anyway I have had what you describe above happen to me and there is a rocket jump that if you can do it can help. I have found by rocket jumping off the bounce pad just below the flag you can reach the platform. I myself  have managed to do this a couple of times but only while I was practicing and not in an actual game. Also another thing is if they don’t notice you by taking the bounce pad up for just at the apex you can get a clean shot at them they are almost always dead certain on the platform. Anyway hope this helps and it’s nice to see you on the forums welcome  :)

I don't understand how your vote could count as a no... maybe it just looked that way.

The new vote system remembers who votes yes and no. If a player that voted yes leaves the game, joins the spectators or gets disconnected the counter will decrease by one. If a player that has already voted votes again the previous vote will be canceled.

There is a limit how often the clients are notified about the vote count, so you might see it skip a number occasionally or votes may cancel each other out.

About oa_ctf4ish, what's about making the grids on those two platforms penetrable by weapons? Weren't they so in the original q3ctf4? I'm not sure, I will check this later.

If you can shoot rockets through them, making the rockets explode on the borders, you should be able to kill the camper easily enough. Also machinegun could help, in this case.

@Sago, that may explain, I'll try to pay attention again. Does it really use bandwidth not to refresh the counts at every vote ? :-/ (I suppose some can have fun to vote yes-no-yes-no-yes-no ...)

It is supposed to update at every vote, but I have discovered several delays in the system that was not present when off line.

Okay, I checked in Quake III Arena: in Q3CTF4, bullets can pass through the "grids" of the platforms (as you can see in the first screenshot). You can make a rocket explode on the edge of the grid (as you can see in the second screenshot), and I suppose you should hurt the camper... and, with some luck, you could even get a direct hit... What do you think about it?

Should be a little modification for a skilled mapper :)

You can also hit on the grid on oa_ctf4ish, but it doesn't do any damage.
Can you confirm it does on q3ctf4 ? Try with bots.
Anyway, some mapper may enlighten us :D

I can't say "get on that platform and stand there while I shoot at you" to a bot.... (read "update" below)

I tried to shoot through the grid in Q3CTF4, and the shots "pass": both shooting from up to down (in the first screenshot I posted before, the red point in my crossair is a rocket that i shoot through the grid) and from down to up (in the second screenshot, it explodes because I voluntarily aimed at the edge of the "solid" part of the platform). In OA_Q3CTF4, instead, the shots don't "pass": shooting from up to down, the rocket explodes, and shooting from down to up the rocket even disappears!

UPDATE - I tried with a bot in Q3A: I created a CTF game with me and a bot in the same team, I went on that platform, used "team orders" to make the bot "follow me" and then "camp here"; I jumped off the platform and he stayed there. I enabled \g_debugdamage, fired at the platform from below, the rocket exploded on the edge of "solid" and "transparent" parts of the platform and the bot took some damage. In conclusion: it works, I think we should do the same thing on the OpenArena map.

It seems to me that the "transparent" part is a little bigger in OA_CTF4ISH, so (after making the grids "weapon-transparent") it could be a bit more easy to direct hit the camper (if he's camping with railgun and aiming at the opposite side of the map, it's hard he could be able to dodge your attacks from below.). Obviously, if he's camping on the "solid" part, you may have problems at aiming at the right "corner" of the edge, if you don't see him... maybe we could also make the solid part more thin.

OK first yes Bane if I "had" a rocket launcher I could jump up but if you died and respawn then you are f#cked. Cuz if you try to get one they can either kill you or push you into a pit. What I do is jump across the bottommost jumppads and machinegun them til they run out of health but then you have a choice try to capture the flag (i.e. play the game) or camp in return to stop them from camping. and if you capture the flag they will just go back up there. so its lose-lose.

Secound yes I know that you could clientkick them but whenever I try "/serverstatus" to get their number it closes oa. I have tried this on single player with the same result. but this is a map forum not techincal so moving on. Even if you try to kick them you sometimes just dont have enough ppl voting to kick them.

Third being able to shoot through the grid would be perfect! they could still snipe YOU through it but by respawning and shooting you could kill them soooo much faster then the way I do.(which gets me killed more often then I can damage them)

Yeah I forgot about even being able to get a rocker launcher and how hellish that can be. Had a remind on this earlier today when I played on a server with this map and not only had a rail camper but a BFG one to.

An alternate idea: with each rail hit while you are up there, you get mined with one mine. ;D
So not only any camper would have a limited lifespan, but also multiple campers would be not possible as the first one to explode would kill them all :)

P.S. What's the maximum number of campers on one platform you've seen and fought? Me, three :RIP:

um well there are anti camping mods but i think that if you need the game to kill campers then there is something wrong with the map. I think that a trap or being able to shoot through the grid would balance it perfectly. or just getting rid of the railgun completly. I mean it is so abused on that map. and oa_ctf2. and to be fair I am one of the ppl who abuse it. I dont camp but I do shoot ppl when they are going off of the jump pads  >:D I think I was giving Bane a headache on oa_ctf2 earlier today even  ;)

Just put lava or slime on the top surface. Easier than the other suggestions, and just as effective.

Maybe slime... lava is too much!

Or if you get killed by the camper 3 times on the third time you spawn with the all the power ups and 200 health and armor a rail gun and a BFG with unlimited ammo. That would get rid of them real quick lol. >:D

Yeah I am yet another victim of the Thoushaltide rails . Anyway nice rails dude especially the holy sh*t one I was so close yet so far  :(

I dont think that lava is a good idea. if you want anyone who goes up there at all to die why not just remove the platform?

I'd suggest water instead of lava so that it deserves its ctf4fish name.

I did a short look at the map and found a metaclip texture.
Also there is a shadered texture on top.
Maybe it would help just to replacing the metaclip (dunno what it does) with a simple clip and replacing the other against a simple one.
Unfortunaly i am rare in time so i can´t make the changes in the next days...

In the air right above their head  ;)

Why not change the "grid" in the middle of the platform to the same stuff that supended is made from? shots go right through the ground on that stage.  :)

Making the shots pass through the grid, like in the original Q3CTF4, is what I suggest from beginning... :-)

Lava doesn't kill you instantly, you have plenty of time to go up, grab the railgun, and go somewhere else :P

if you can jump out of the lava  ;) but if you are going to have a tiny pit of lava on that thin little platform why not make it something more realistic. (cuz in the cold vacuum of space there aint no lava) so why not make electricity running through the "grid" and say the platform is electrified?

Okay, let's do a "recap" of the various ideas, adding some new ones.

1) - Make the grid parts penetrable by shots. Like in the original Q3CTF4, other players will be able to hit the camper from below (from the flag area). And if the camper uses the grid to fire to that flag area, he will not be able to see other players reaching (and killing) him from the proper jump-pad in the center of the map. Rockets may explode against the edge with the "solid" part of the platform, causing damage to the camper even without direct hit.
2) - Make the two platforms completely of "grids" penetrable by shots. Similar to option 1), but the whole platform would be "transparent". You should see and aim at the camper better, but with rocket launcher you would need a direct hit to damage him
3) - Almost all penetrable grid, with a thin solid border. Like option 2), but with a thin external solid border, that allows rocket explosions.
4) - Grid made by solid material with real holes. Like option 2), but the "grid" will be made by "solid" material with "real" holes: almost any rocket will touch a solid part and thus explode, damaging the player over there.
5) - Place traps on the platforms. One has to be quicker as possible to get the rail and jump down: if someone activates a switch (pushing or shooting at it), the traps will kill who is on the platforms. Traps may simply crush (like q3tourney6), or fire mines from fixed positions, or fire rockets from fixed positions, or open a trapdoor over a lava pool....
6) - Place slime on the plaforms. The camper cannot stay too much time there. It should be impossible or at least difficult to stand on the border of the tub. Slime in open space may be strange?
7) - Place lava on the platforms. The camper has to take the rail and immediately jump down. It should be impossible or at least difficult to stand on the border of the tub. Lava in open space sounds strange.
8) - Electrified platforms. The whole surface of the two platforms should be "electrified", hurting the player, who needs to take the rail and jump down before getting too much damage. Similar to slime (option 6) or lava (option 8), but more "realistic" (if it is possible to say that) for a space map.
9) - Removing platforms. The two railguns will be suspended in the air, like the BFG. The jump-pads will push you to get the weapon and then you will land next to the flag.
10) - Platforms behind flags. The two platforms could be placed, instead of in vertical over the flags, behind them (the whole arena will be a bit longer than now)... in a way that you can get there with the same jump-pads as now, or maybe also with a rocket-jump from the flag. The important thing is that they will be not so high, so the camper would be easily killed!
11) - Moving platforms. If the platform moves continuously up and down, aiming from there should be very difficult, and thus camping there would be not so useful. But we should be sure that the jump-pads don't send you directly out from the map, when the platforms aren't at the usual place.
12) - Different weapon. Replacing Railguns with other weapons less efficient from that position (shotgun, grenade launcher, plasma, lightning gun, nail gun or prox mines).

Did I forget something?
If needed, maybe we could even start a poll with these options, but let's try to talk before that...

I propose option number 1)... and you?

I like option 3. the whole being able to shoot through the grid is the best idea imo. But i think that the border should be reduced a bit. and also a fair amount of ideas assume you have access to the rocket launcher. A good camper can easily deny you that! Plus if you had one you could just rocket jump up to them from the jumppads in your base  :)

Where are gone all the guys?

Still here but still without time...

lol still here but i dont know how to alter maps so i cant really do anything :( plus i hear that fromhell is retiring the map in the next patch so it doesnt really matter

I hear "tribute" maps will be wiped out from standard download, too... (I do not agree with that, but if this is the developers' choice...), but they should be available as a separate download package, If I didn't misunderstood. I think it should be better to fix that map before that package comes out (I don't know if they plan to develope further that package).

i wish maps had a more central location. some are fringe maps for a perticular mod but it would be nice if they all were in some place to download instead of random incounts on the servers. and i really like the map suction from like 7.something but it is gone from later releases. can i still get it on 8.5? wait sry ill start a new thread about this. just in case ppl get annoyed yes i have a problem getting off topic in forums, im sry ill do better  :)

Source?

What do you mean? Do you want the map's .map (source) file, to be able to update it yourself?

Or do you want to know the "source" that talked about wiping out tribute maps? He/she (I don't know) is fromhell... :-(
- See here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3578.msg31584#msg31584)
- and here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3711.msg32314#msg32314).
I don't know the details. There may be more threads talking about this, I don't know...

PS: I love some tribute maps, like WRACKDM17....  :-( (I hope at least that it may be substituted by a map with different aspect/shape but similar idea: a small, "open" map, where you can both kill and being killed at every moment: a small and open map is very useful when testing something (for example, a mod, or any game option)...

They will be available as a separate addon.

Check the svn. packs/tribute.

Thank you for your quick reply.
I checked svn and oa_ctf4ish is in this tribute folder.
No need to modify this map anymore ;D

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2424.0

Why? It is in tribute folder... but it WILL BE downloadable (inside a separate package - "tribute pack" or similar, but still downloadable). Since many players like tribute maps, if the additional link will be visible enough when downloading OpenArena many people will download that pack.
I think this is the right moment to FIX that map bugs, before releasing the next OA version and the new map-pack.

Please, everybody, don't quit now. Let's select together one of the solutions above (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3740.msg32447#msg32447), and a good mapper should be able to apply that solution with little effort.

we now have a poll

From the next version there will be two things the server admin can do about it:

"set replace_weapon_railgun weapon_bfg" - Replaces the railgun with a BFG: No more railing.
"g_spawnprotect 100000" - players take no damage the first 100 seconds after respawn.

Interesting, I hope any items would be replaceable, so that it can be replaced for instance by a ... duck.
There was already disable railgun option.

I wouldn't consider having a long spawn protection be a solution for this map, still that cvar may have some other use.

For sure, ROFL servers will all have the tribute pack. I would have prefered to stick to baseoa and no download, but except abandonning that tribute pack idea I see no other solution.

Like the disable option you can make your own server crash if you replace all the spawnpoints by something else. It also have some undesired effects on objectives but that is the price to pay.

I really and  cannot stress this enough I think replacing the rail with the BFG option is a very very bad idea because then it will just be camping and a BFG spamfest at least with the rail it requires good aim but with the BFG it’s just spam the whole area until something dies.

True, but items can be replaced with spawnpoints too ( http://forums.noghost.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=1996;hl=add+and+spawn )

I am not sure that my replace-function works exactly like the noghost implementation. It sounded smart, so I implemented it but it does only replace the item, sometimes the entity has other properties like the triggers and location items that are not fully connected to an item.

why would you replace the railgun with a bfg? there is already one on the map and it is already abused enough dont make one more accessable! why not replace it with a nailgun or chaingun or proxy mine or lightning? or as i suggested in my poll why not battlesuit? its the most underused powerup in the game.

I guess the "rail -> bfg" was just an example.

Hehehe,

imagine ctf2 with bfg only when you like to play insta...

Hello everybody. I think we should fix also the BFG platform. It is made with a "grid" that projectiles don't penetrate. In Quake 3 Arena, instead, in Q3CTF4, that plaform has a "solid" part and a grid that shots can pass through, as you can see in the screenshot.

Gig are you talking about the moving platform that the bfg is on? and if so why should it be changed so that shots cant pass through it?

Yes, it's what I said.
Because of two things. First, to have all the similar grids behave the same way (if we decide to fix the other similar grids to have bullets pass through them, why should one be different?).... searching for coherence. Second, so you would shoot a bit more easily to an hypotetical BFG camper...

so who can change this map? cuz i dont know how. and i just played a super stupid game with cacatoes where we had 2 noobs camping. I would really like to see this map changed. even if its the only thing changed in 8.6!

Thoushaltdie I feel your pain I played a game the other day where there where 2 railers up there and to make it worst there was of course the one person that got the BFG so at this point the map became like hell to play but lucky I had a great team and we won that round. I think a lot of our CTF maps just need a huge overhaul and need to be redone or just left out of future versions because they just cause too many problems.

well you could make the case that any map is bad. but i think that small changes, like being able to shoot through the grid can fix, them easily. im just hoping someone with the knowhow will actually make the changes!

Bane we also won our game by having a good team of i think 4 ppl vs like 6. so it was uneven number wise but we were alot better. so like noobs they just started camping and cacatoes had a long debate with one of the noobs about camping ruining the fun of the game but the dude didnt listen so he got kicked. isnt playing with admins fun  ;)

I like the idea of shooting through the grate. Here are my thoughts:

Option 1: Modify the Existing Shader

To make it so you can shoot through the grate, a few changes are needed to fix the shader:

• surfaceparm nonsolid
• surfaceparm playerclip

Pros

• Only the shader needs modified.
• No need to edit and compile map.

Cons

• Impacts all maps that use this shader.

Option 2: Create a New Shader
The same changes as above, but either packaged with the map or added to clown.shader.

Pros

• Only the effects this map.

Cons

• Map needs to be retextured and compiled.

Nice work, Joshua.
I guess, the old shader should be modified, because q3s original shader had nonsolid and playerclip ;D

Video !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jyPiptULV0

Nice video Cacatoes and some good points  :)

I don't agree with some of the statements in that video:

The use of just one weapon doesn't mean you're a camper. You can use whichever weapon you like. Not moving makes you a camper.

If you're on a space map like that, a good player will probably use it quite frequently.

Devastating weapons are always a problem in sophisticated hands:
rg in open maps, lg during close combats and rl is always spammy.
The person who made the maps have to ask himself: does a map like ctf4 needs a rg? or would a lg better fit the gameplay?
The result of a final release of a map is its gaming experience which depends on decisions made earlier by the mapper. But he has to be careful: noobs will not like the rg, pros maybe will like it. or vice versa.

Just changing the map for the convenience of some players isn´t as good as it may look like.
sago - as an example - put the pl into its oasago2, which lead to an unplayable version. He removed the pl very fast and all were happy.
But what will happen, if the rg will be removed from ctf4?
I think the shader modification is the better solution here.

I think first point was more: learn to master every weapon, rather than stick to a single one
Second point: why a good player should frequently use rail if goal is not to win ? (one of the other statement you implicitely agreed :D)

Now, some various experiments have already been done with replacing railgun
Even played it on elimination without railgun recently, was not so bad.

Which weapon do you suggest instead of the rail?

I don’t get why there seems to be a rail gun on open maps because to me it just turns into a giant shooting range and I notice that sometimes because of this some people that where going for the flag just stop and just start to rail camp themselves because they probably are thinking why even try for the flag when I get kill no matter what way I go. Maybe the plasmas gun would be a good replacement of the rail gun or we could use the chain gun. Also maybe having red armor instead of the yellow armor and 1 more health bubble would help make things a little bit more manageable.

Plasma was fun to use on open space maps, but we didn't play it for a long time.
I'd vote for people to keep rail, the map can be fun with it too, maybe less ammo ? 5 instead of 10. And if some way to shoot from below is given then it would help too.
Chaingun would kinda make double use with machinegun, which is already very efficient here.
I think health is manageable, this is a map where you die quick (and it has to be that way, it's not so difficult to get the flag and come back, every match I played didn't have this problem of flag being so difficult to bring and score, and if it was, it was due to bad organization of teams) ; also, there is already MH, I don't time it but one could if he really wants.

i dont think that there should be more health. but i think plasma or chain would be nice. but in the end of the day i still think that the best fix would be to let ppl shoot through the middle of the platform. after all we only trying to fix it for campers who sit up there because its high up and the ammo spawns there.

I for one use the railgun where others us the machinegun and shotgun. this does make me a camper. this is an open map, the railgun is nice to have but i have seen some people who can take people out from across the map with rockets. most people cant do that. so i think that rail is fine because its insta hit and ppl can get to the other side superquick in this map and you need some way to be able to kill them before then can score 20 times.

One thing i dont like is that anyway to get to the other side means you HAVE to go over a jump pad or rocketjump. this leads to waaaaaay to much abuse of the railgun (by pushing people to their deaths). and i admit that i am one of the worst abusers of this feature. still if they arent camping over your base you CAN kill them with the machinegun and get a railgun yourself so i dont think the whole map is broken.

I'm not sure what is better. If that shader is expected to behave like in Q3 (projectiles pass through), it would be a nice idea to fix it. I've seen (but not tested) that there are third part map packs that allow to add original Q3A maps to OpenArena... using them such "grids" work like in oa_ctf4ish or like the original q3ctf4 under Q3A? Probably making that shader behave like the original would "fix" various maps... if 100% Q3A stuff compatibility is an OpenArena goal, it should be fixed. But an important question: has that shader got the same name that is used in q3a, or not? I mean, maybe are there already two different sharders or something similar?

On the other side, if there are some maps designed expressly for OpenArena, using that shader for intentionally blocking shots, changing it would change gameplay in those maps, too... maybe doing something different from the map creator's intentions...

why not just use the same stuff as the platform that the bfg is on?

As I told before (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3740.msg32789#msg32789), it seems to me that the BFG plaftorm has the same problem than the other two plaforms (except for the fact that it moves).

Yet nobody complains about bfg campers on that map. I am just throwing in new ideas but one could also make the rail suspended so that you got it on the way to the platform and had to get down and up again to get new ammo.

Yes, a moving platform isn't bad against campers, also if I suppose that good railers (not me) and delag technology can be quite deadly also in that situation. BFG is also a bit less effective than RG at high distances (not being hitscan) and a BFG camper would be between the crossed fire of two railguns. I don't say that BFG camping there is a problem, now... but if we fix the grids, we should fix all the similar grids in that map.
The idea of having railguns suspeded mid-air is already in the poll (and, I don't know why, that option has no votes until now).

Unfortunaly with an incomatible shader, it could be possible, that a q3 map is unplayable with oa.
And oas main goal is to get 100% (standard argument of this site - scnr! ;D).
Now we have a clear decision on the shader and no further discussion needed (Joshua already showed up the parts to be changed, fromhell can do it very quick and put the changes to svn, because no other can.).

The other point is to modify oa_ctf4ish - but this is just a usual process of a map: modification by somebody who likes to do it...

BFG is not abused, only begginers try to catch it and they don't harm much with it.

Some other suggestion:
- replace railgun with plasma
- replace bfg with railgun, eventually with less ammo

At least, I think I'll do that as soon as the replace functions are available into OAX.

Lucky me, I can try several settings and experiment with them in real conditions, not only by guessing changing this one will do it. Progressively change one thing and another to test.

I've already removed Kamikaze, it brought a few coward tactics on this map which don't piss me off but which I find just lame, lol. And I let it for some months, it was okay to play with it, mainly had to deal with stupid falls due to kamikaze blow push.

why is kamikaze in the game? its a terrible powerup and spawns way to often!!!

Poll results at 20, june 2010:
Well, It seems that shooting through the grid is the most voted option... So... who is a mapper here? Or a coder that can fix the shader? As told before, since compatibility with Q3A is a goal for OpenArena, if that map uses the same shader (same name?) as the original one, fixing it should fix compatibility with all maps designed for Q3A that use that shader. If that shader, instead, is not the same used in other Q3 maps, we could decide do make a copy of it and modify that copy (and modify the map)...

Please, someone that knows what and how to do....

It's not the same shader, q3ctf4 uses base_floor/cybergrate3 while oa_ctf4ish uses base_floor/cybergrate2. Both can be found in OA 0.8.1, so I think the best way is to replace the grid in the map: screenshot (http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4139/ctf4grid.jpg).

i have looked though maps in the game and it really doesnt seem like there IS a shader that you can shoot through. the closest is the map suppended. which can have plasma and rockets go through the floor. but im not a mapper or coder so i may be horribly off and either way i cant fix this  :)

Oooops, didn´t knew that (because i neither had played q3 nor had a copy of this game).
So options are open again :D

hello,

i havent read through the whole topic but i just want to add this topic here:

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2285.0 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2285.0)

there was a similiar discussion. i also made some alternatives, you find in the end of the topic. the filelinks are dead but i will try to upload them to 6r-clan http server. maybe there are some copies out there. i remember cacatoes uploaded some these ctf4ish versions  but this was a long time ago =).

i will let you know when there are working links.

Guys, what are we going to do now?

Replacing the shader? ;D

For me it's ok, but someone able to do it should do it...

I tooked a look into "tribute", but there are only the aas and bsp.
Too lazy to search for the map with the browser frontend

If you want the .map file, try searching in the <root>/Source/Assets/Maps folder.

thx, my friend from argentina (even if we will have some internal problems on saturday :D )

i almost thought i lost the maps, but few days ago i found them again :)

after MIOW helped me to upload the files i can now give the link to you:

http://6r-clan.org/maps/oactf4ish_alt.7z (http://6r-clan.org/maps/oactf4ish_alt.7z)


the 7z file includes 4 pk3 files. besides each pk3 file includes a foulder where you can find the .map file.

have fun and thanks to miow!


PS: maybe the domain where the 4ish-files (including meisterlampe's maps) are storaged soon switches, but i provide you with the new address then

- oa_ctf4ishum1: this one replaces the two railguns with plasma guns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum2: this one replaces the two railguns with chainguns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum3: this one replaces the two railguns with nailguns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum4: this one does not replace/remove the railguns. It simply removes the bfg, placing a personal teleporter there.

In all of them you cannot shoot through grids. I don't feel they could be our best solution...

Strange, I tried the personal teleporter various times (once per map), and it always teleported me over one of the bounce-pads that bring up to the moving platform...

shooting through the grid was no option in those days. i just changed the stuff we talked about in the topic above (see my recent post: reply #79). as i have mentioned yet: campers+oa_ctf4ish was always a hot topic. i cannot change what the teleporter does.. i think :) but preventing you from falling into the void is quite a good deal. even if you always spawn at the same point.

it definately isnt the best solution. actually it is a one year old version =). but go forth and just change the properties of the gridbrush. its quite a quick job. these 4 maps were made before this poll was made.

I would do it if I know how to do it.

Peter Sillie, on his posts 81, 83 and 85, seemed going to do it... but then he disappeared (he didn't write any post in the forums since 29 june)... maybe on vacation?

I would change rail gun with chain gun or plasma gun and BFG change with nail gun or 5-shot proxy mine.

Mmmm I am thinking about restyling the map (weapons and armor change, make the map a little bigger (e.g. make the middle platform bigger and put new items on it or do some other things) aka doing a oa_ctf4ish version 2. I can't do it, I'm not a mapper, but firstly what do YOU think about it?

Not on vacation, just veryyyyyy lazy.
you can submit the map file by yourself:
1: dl the file from the repo http://openarena.ws/svn/source/assets/maps/oa_ctf4ish.map (omg, i was too blind i guess :D )
2: modify the 2 lines 2297 and 2324 (change "cybergrate2" to "cybergrate3" as Udi (big thx!!) told above)
3: commit the map file in the svn thread (hopefully one of the mapper will make a compile ;) ) - because it is derived from the original gpl map, which is known by all of us, you even do not need to make the whole "gpl and the rest of the universe" stuff ;)
4: i would do it by myself, but no webspace here (and i do not like this rapidshare sites >:( )

That should be all to have the version with the original grid...

Good luck!

[Edit]: clean up the gpl stuff i wrote about ;D

I've tried to correct the grid, but apparently it's not a shader problem I suspected before. Changing the shader to cybergrate3 does not solve the problem. So far I figured out, that setting both side of the brush to the 'clip' common shader makes the grid penetrable, but if I set both sides there's no texture left. I've put a cybergrate3 shadered brush into a clip shadered brush, but the missiles won't get trough :(. If a mapper would give a tip, how I should apply both the cybergrate3 and the clip shader, I would be grateful. I've read some tutorials, but I'm still a mapping noob. I just need some hints, and then I can compile the map just fine.

Just to clear up the things for me:
you selected the whole brush and mapped the weapon clip texture to all 6 sides.
After this you selected just one side of the brush and give this side the cybergrate3 shader.

This combo does not work?

Uhm? When you post in this forum, click on "Additional Options", you can upload files... it says that you can upload .map and .pk3 files, upload up to 3082KB (and this .map is 495 KB, I don't know about the .bsp, but one could try to pack into .zip or .pk3).

Exactly, with the only difference that I use 'clip' instead of 'weapclip', since weapclip blocks the weapons too. Only if I set all the 6 sides to clip will the missiles go through. If I set the upper side to cybergrate3, rockets shots from above do splash on the top, but if shot from under, there's no rocket splash, but the rockets won't get trough. I use the GIT snapshot of Netradiant 1.5, 12 July 2010, maybe that's the problem.

@Gig: didn´t knew, that i can upload such huge files. anyway: web space would be a better place - otherwise leilo will kill me :D
@Udi: maybe playerclip should be the right choice. i had expected, that a simple brush with 5 sided playerclip and topside with the shader should work fine. maybe a bug in the shader? the shader should contain the neccessary commands...

If not, you could try a very small shader brush (.1 units) and a surrounding clipping brush. And (dunno if you know about, just make sure that you take a note) be sure to rename your map to ctf4ish_b or something like this, to prevent oa of making strange things :) )

In all other cases : HELP!!! :D

It could work, but I could only set it to .125, and sometimes the shots get through, sometimes not. Source file in the .pk3, no aas: z_oactf4ish_2.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_oactf4ish_2.pk3)

I tested it. Some parts of the grid are penetrable by weapons, others not. I noticed another thing (but it seems to affect also the "original" oa_ctf4ish, altough I didn't notice it before): when you stay over the platform, look down: objects like health globes are shown through the "solid" part of the grate (that solid part is "opaque" for the map itself, but semi-transparent for such objects).

Even if I scale the cybergrate3 brush to the height of 0.0124 I cannot always shoot through the grid, it's seems to fail as frequently as with 0.125 height.

The semi-transparent effect is a shader issue, I will fix it.

Could somebody plz post the cybergrate3 shader?
i have no real chance to inspect this file with my netbook, because it seems, that it just includes LF instead of LF&CR.
If the shader is fine and the brushes are done well: could it be a bug in ioquake?

Uhm... I unpacked all Q3A pk3s and then searched for "cybergrate".
I found only two TGA images, that you can find attached here, cybergrate2.tga and cybergrate3.tga (in pak4-textures.pk3\textures\base-floor)
There are no .shader files called "cybergrate", and it seems there is no file that contains "cybergrate" word in ASCII...

I've posted the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_OA_shaders]full list of shaders on the Wiki (http://([b). The cybergrate3 shader is in the clown.shader file:


It's the one which fixes the semi-transparent health orb's, the alphaFunc GE128 was a blendFunc blend earlier. I think the shader is alright, since the Q3 shader has the same surface parameters.

If I open clown.shader file with notpad, I can find the "cybergrate" inside it. I wonder why Windows XP's search function did not find it...

The map compiler (q3map2) will determine the kind of brush (clipping, detail, etc) from its very first side in its brush definition in the .MAP file.

So what you may need to do is edit the .MAP file with a text editor, find that brush (e.g. by giving one side a funny texture name), and cut-n-paste the first side to the second side.

Actually after thinking about it, I think it really needs two brushes there: a detail one for the grating and a playerclip one for the physics.

Thanks, andrewj, it works :)! Here's the map for testing (remove previous pk3): z_oactf4ish2_v2.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_oactf4ish2_v2.pk3)

Not tested yet, but i trust in you.
Great work, Udi (and thx to andrewj)!

Thank you, Udi.
But there are some things...
- The BFG platform seems not fixed yet.
- The "semi-transparent" bug is not fixed (go on a platform, look down and you can see helth globes where the grid should hide them)
- Another thing, but this one is not important: I noticed that, when you shoot a rocket from down to up, trying to hit the camper, if you miss him, the rocket disappears soon... is it possible to have the invisible upper map limit a little "higher", to make the rockets disapper some moments later? I repeat, this one is not important... but since we're here...

Unfortunaly skyboxes are just an optical trick.
even if you widen up the sky, the rocket will suddenly disapear.
Same effect, if you shoot to the "walls" or on the "floor".

I understand that it is not possible to have them to not disappear, but is it possible to have them do it more meters above?

Info: We Italians are discussing here (http://www.openarena.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=460) about what to change in oa_ctf4ish (shurely in Italian=) generally. Then maybe a new 4ish come out of the water. ^-^

Didn't know if that one also needs a fix. But is it a good idea? The BFG camper can also shoot through from above, so we just give him the perfect spot to shoot everywhere. Now if he shoots the platform he will be at least knocked down.


I posted the fixed shader above, will include it into the next release.


I also noticed it, tried to heighten the ceiling but I screwed it. I will try another time.

But if the camper looks down to fire next to the Kamikaze, he will not be able to defend himself from the two railers on the other platforms....
Anyway, if we want to do not let the bullets pass through the BFG platform, we should remove the grid and make the platform "solid".

On q3_ctf4 the BFG platform is like the rail platform, there's a solid frame and there's the cybergrate3 grid in the middle which can be shot through. Let's see if I can pull this off.

BTW, we get closer to the original, do we need the kamikaze ::)?

My idea was to have it like the original... anyway we can change it if needed.

it will be interesting to see the result of these changes. has the problem with the rocket launcher been adressed?
i'm talking about the rocket launcher that is floating in mid air above the central platform. with maxfps set at 125 the rocket launcher will not always be picked up. i did some testing regarding this a long time ago and the quote below is from that thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2519.0)


so, if the rocket launcher in the middle is nudged 16 units straight up all players will be able to pick it up (except those with maxfps 333).

Next: z_oactf4ish2_v3.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_oactf4ish2_v3.pk3)

• BFG platform much smaller and penetrable
• skybox enlarged, which made the map darker, some lights added
• floating rocket moved 16 units higher
• aas file

 :)

Tried it... I find it nice... :-)

From that 4 points I like all but not the second one. I think the lights were better how they was.

What do you think about this?
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3125/4ishv2.jpg)
(BFG platform must be modificated and wall that is on right side should be on left, too.)

i say get rid of the nail gun, plasma and kamakaize they arent needed on the map and it feels like they add too much clutter. and why are you changing the bfg to chain? this is the only map that has the bfg and it really isnt that bad to have on the map. i think it should stay but thats just my opinion ;)

Ok, thank you for your opinion ! What do the others think?

About the weapons:
- Firstly I thought of adding nail gun, but then I wasn't anymore so much sure, so I put it in parentheses.
- I think plasma because "what else would you add on rail platform?" and because it can be useful when jump down to flag-platform and want to kill some enemys from a good middle range.
- I put the rocket there, so it is fast reachable from base (without leaving it) and it should be a used weapon.
- BFG? Isn't that a bit too noobish "BFG vs shotgun" e.g. ? The chain gun is an alternative. It is a strenght weapon, but you can anyway defend a bit (at least one shotgun shot).
- The rail gun on that place prevents too much camping. And I don't want to remove the rail completely.




Additional things (that you maybe don't see):
- the rail platform has a little bit larger size than normal in order to hit easier the lateral side of the middle transparent thing.
- behind the flag on base there is a jumppad (good for defenders to get fast a weapon and also good for carrier because often the defenders wait a platform under flag plastform till the carrier comes down and then it is always an easy fragg for the defender)
- the wall is a defense for rail campers but also it is a wall where you can shot to to damage the enemy standing on that platform.

i am happy with the modified grid.
no more changes needed imho

As for me, I wouldn't change oa_ctf4ish that much. I only agree with the floating railgun in the middle, if I remember QL has the same. But it's still a Q3 tribute map, and it won't be included in the next release, so I wouldn't spend a lot of time improving it.


I like the new lights better, it finally looks like a real space map, everything is darker and the jumppads and portals are really glowing. But I still have to test visibility with some OA models, so it's not final.

Thank you for you answers !

So if all weapons remain how it is now, then I would at least put in the wall at rocket platform for rail protection because when someone is camping on rail platform above your base and you want to kill the camper, then it is very difficult. The wall can at least protect you from one rail hit, so you can get the rocket, jump up to rail platform with jumppad and get the camper down of there.

I think we can try that wall, it could also make the map more detailed. But I don't know if it can help that much, since most of the railshots occur when you are on the highest point in the air after the jumppad bumps you (it's the most easier to hit the player at that time, since there's less vertical speed) and I rather won't make the wall that high as the jumppad kicks you. Maybe decrease the force of the jumppad, but that kills the airrocket fun.

Another thing is, placing a wall or something else in the air, exactly on that point that you can't hit the enemy on highest point.
Here an example of what I mean:
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7640/shot0049c.th.jpg) (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/shot0049c.jpg/) (Attention, this is ugly  ;D )



And what should be modificated is the teleporters, blue and red are different.

A floating wall would look funny, but if the wall touches the platform then it's huge and robust. I already have some ideas to fix this, question is if I can make it in Netradiant :).


That's a bug. The shader fixes coming in the next release will fix the blue portal, but until then you can download it (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.msg29343#msg29343).

i still like having the bfg on this map because it is a fun gun that i never get to use. and you have to jump up to get it anyways. i do think that it should have alot less ammo.

Ok, I have another point:
- The 2 respawn directions to jumppad can disturb. When you are in hurry to return the flag and you respawn, then it easy happens that go unfortunately to the jumppad and that costs much time. So it's better when the respawn direction is lateral.


p.s.

news about the wall, Udi? ^^

Version 4: z_oactf4ish2_v4.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_oactf4ish2_v4.pk3)

• walls added (They are on the other side of the platforms compared to adriano's pictures, because the teleporter pushes the players on the left platform. Since that's the side where the jumppad leads, it cannot be as high as the jump.)
• arena file and levelshot added, now you can launch the map from the skirmish menu
• kamikaze disabled
• the textures on the blue base changed, since it's a specular texture and will be too bright when the new textures come
• light trims added to both bases and red lights changed to blue on the blue base
• some brush and other detail fixes (a jumppad kicked higher then it's counterpart)

Good work!


Things I noticed:
- Blue base has red jumppads
- in a few times when you are hurry and you do a bad air strafe to left, then it can happen that you don't across the new wall.



I didn't understand what you mean in "because the teleporter pushes the players on the left platform. Since that's the side where the jumppad leads, it cannot be as high as the jump". Could you explain it more, pls?

Could you answer my question above (what  I edited) and say if that is for now the final version of the map or do you want to change other things?

You can expect to be camped from the enemy rail platform the most (a few times campers sit above your own base and rail you from behind, but they are easier to kill). That's the reason why the platform which is the easiest to reach (the platform on the left, if you are facing the opposite base) has it's wall on the side facing the enemy base and rail platform. But since the jumppad is on that same side too, the wall has to be small so you can jump across it. (Or you can make a wall which players can go through, but missiles don't, like a forcefield, but that would be too much extra for a remake.)

No no no, I don't think so! A lot of players go to left platform, take rocket+armor, jump down and jump to enemy rail platform to camp there (a little bit). The few real intentional campers  go to own rail platform. 2 floating walls on each platform would eliminate both problems. Now when you are thinking where I put the second wall its easy: Just put it behind and above the jumppad. The wall how you put it in, is not so much protecting because the railers shot when the player is on highest point (you said it, too).

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7059/aaaaim.th.jpg)
[naturally the walls have not the right size and position but it should be a kind of this]
 (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/aaaaim.jpg/)

why not a "forcefeild" instead of a wall? its explainable because this is a futurist space map ;) and you could just use the same stuff as suspended's floor. rockets and plasma go through it but rail cant and its kinda see through. Then you just have to change it to let players through. or can you not simply "let" players pass through it without letting railshot go through to?

But: this is oa, not pac man.
It should be possible to frag an opponent if you have the rail.
this map isn´t rail safe and shouldn´t be.

well that is what they are now making it :( personally i just wanted a fix to ppl camping over your base where you are literally incapable of killing them if they are even half decent with rail. i personally voted for a simply trap that would crush them when it was shot.

Yes, I agree. I can make the two wall change or the force-field, but not as a replacement for oa_ctf4ish. I will check the other errors on the map, and I will post the version without the walls in the SVN commit topic. The force-field version can come later as an extra.

+1

I was not able to try the last beta until now. I will try it tomorrow...

I tested the v4. Not bad, but I'm not sure that the walls on the lateral platforms (after the portals) are really useful to protect against the rail campers. Maybe the v3 is enough...

So, guys? Any news?

Udi? Someone else?

On hold. 1st: webpage redesign, 2nd: oa_ctf4ish finish.

I didn't even took time to have an eye on all these changes until now. Of course I'm anticipating your next task but it's better if I give my PoV before you work again on it :P

- is the bfg platform now a bit too small ? well, it's okay like this and BFG shouldn't be easy to access, so agreed :P
- about the floating rocket, it was an issue when physics were at 125fps, still, some server admins might still use fps dependent physics, and the change won't harm non-fps dependant physics, so here too I agree.
- The sky looks more natural with distant stars, I usually disable sky but this now makes it nicer and I'd even say close stars were almost provoking a camouflage effect, making players harder to distinguish. So I think the change was worth.
- Walls may not disturb too much the gameplay, may be partially protective (for people who stay a bit on RL platform), it should be tested. But I agree we should keep close to the original and a walled version as an extra may be the solution, meanwhile I'd vote not to implement them. Camping is performed on both side of the map :D Not only from one. Without the hole on the platform, it's almost easier to kill the camper when s/he is in his/her own base (because you have full angle and if you insist with minigun you harm him/her a bit). But when camping in our base, one can also wait to get a RL from an enemy and rocket jump to RG platform to kill the camper. I haven't tried yet to deal with campers with that hole in RG platform solution. I also fear about being railed too often from that platform and I almost wished shoots could only cross in one direction, not from top to below, but I'll have to check that.
- I may not disable the kamikaze, since server admins can already do that with disable_holdable_kamikaze. Better, I planned to use replace function to replace it with quad damage :D as a test. I've seen QL map has put Quad in this map and I think this can be fantastic. Alternative would have been to replace megahealth for this, and after thinking of it, this may be the best option. However, I feel like having more options can be better, if admins can replace stuff, then mapper can leave them this opportunity and spare the hassle to recompile. The other point is Sago's intent may have been to give a MissionPack flavour to this map. There is also a guard item which appears when you enable MP if I'm not wrong. It's a bit sad to have such items while having maps not designed for it, however I feel like it's again better to have 2 different flavours, vanilla and MP, design the map either for one or the other but don't do half (a crossing which may have been encouraged by MP integration into baseoa).
- about that texture change in blue base (v4) I don't see what it is. But I already use your texture pack as a replacement and I didn't see anything wrong with it while playing v4.
- Aesthetically, light trims in blue and red base near the flag may be a bit too much, I would have opted for a more sober version and eventually supress them. I think I've noticed you added lights at other places and I like them.
- I don't know which jumppad kicks higher than its counterpart ...
- You may already know, Blue teleporter and Red teleporter aren't symetric. Red teleporter is easier (at least for me) to perform a trick. The map has its charm with having 2 different stuff, but for equity purpose I wonder if that should be changed. I like to try doing that trick on both versions of teleporters, that may be left as is, or not :P

OMG too many smileys...

PS: that was a quick try

Dang, I never knew you could turn off the sky.  Wish I knew about that all the times I played reptctf12 and couldn't see a frickin' thing ;D

Thanks Caca! I think we should first make a vanilla version and then we can make experiments. So I would remove the additional walls, still leaving out the kamikaze (or only allow it for TA gametypes) and not introducing the quad.

The light trims maybe a bit overkill, yes. The jumppads behind the teleporters were different, one of them kicked you more higher, I noticed it while I was doing the walls. I haven't noticed the difference with the teleporters, so I'll check it out.

 O0

Just played some ctf matches on the map (not a modified berta, I'm talking about the classic 0.8.5 version):
One match ended:
Red team: 8
Blue team: 1
(and the previous had similar results)
... then the server admin disabled the railgun... and the next mach:
Red team: 0
Blue team: 8

The red team was heavily using the railgun, and dominating thanks to it. Once removed that weapon, the blue team taken the lead (even if it wasn't exacly an "own" as the final 0-8 may suggest: the challenge was demanding).

Ps: Me and Cacatoes were in the blue team.

We really have to do something for this map. Obviously we have to fix the "grid"... but maybe we should also place another item in the place of the railgun, or give it mid-air instead of over the platform (to not provide an infinite supply to the campers)...

Or maybe just implement anti-camping, say if you remain on the same platform longer than 30 seconds you die and you can't respawn for 30 seconds. Seems like that one feature would sort out many maps.

ok putting it in mid air so there isnt an infinite supply will fix the whole map imo. thats it you dont need a "grid" just put it in midair not on the platform :D

Problem isn't only people who stay on railplatform, but people who rail from defense.
Once you have not much ammo you can kill yourself (or let yourself be killed) and respawn with full rail ammo (10) which is a bit too much.

was it schlorri that made a change where the dropped weapon only contained as much ammo as the player had when he dropped it? i think that was an excellent patch. might have been for q3min though. i would like to see that implemented. it's strange that a used weapon contains as much ammo as a weapon picked up at the weapon's spawn place.

Wasn't OpenArena supposed to do not change such "rules" from Q3A?

I'm not sure that changing a general rule to fix camping in one specific map would be a great idea...
Even if saying that a dropped weapon should have only the remaining ammo from the previous player has got sense... we all know that Q3 is meant to be a fast, dynamic "arcade" game, not to be a realistic "simulation" ... in general, I suppose that picking up a weapon with 1 or 2 ammo would be useless...

Default gameplay shouldn't be changed, but has already been changed with independent fps physics.
That's the point of this feature ! :D
I'd vote to see it implemented as a server-side cvar too, not only because of this particular problem but because that could bring some more advanced strategies into gameplay.

As a server-side cvar, it's ok for me... but not by default...

I know it's not about balance, but somehow I can never land on that rail platform on 125 fps physics from the middle. I always fly over. 8)

This is some kind of balance, actually... and this happens with stock, um3 and Udi's version.

You have some air control with the vanilla Q3 physics too (not as much as with CPM), just push the backwards button while in the air, and you will slow down.

Yeah, I know... but that wasn't enough.  ;D

At least, for me.

Hmm... it should be enough. What are your g_gravity and g_speed values?

Never mind, my fault.

I thought I should go forward to reach that platform not backward.

Hell, for 5 years I did it wrong...

Hi guys!
Time for next OpenArena release is running out...
What about fixing OA_CTF4ISH this week?

It was a long time ago, so correct me if I'm wrong, are these the changes we all agreed to do?
- make railplatforms shoot-trough
- make BFG platform smaller
- make the two portals symmetric

agree :)

It's okay for me.
But, scrolling back the thread, I've found a post with some feedback from Cacatoes (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3740.msg35783#msg35783) that mentioned that bfg platform has already been reduced in some beta (and mentioned rocketlauncher problems at 125fps physics?)...

- RL is at right height with current physics, so it's fine.
- Symetry of teleporters doesn't annoy me and I actually like it since it gives 2 different ways to practice tricks.
- Agreed for the rest
- There were also the "protections on RL platforms", but I haven't tested them in real conditions.

I have a glitch which I can't figure out (happens with the previous unaltered maps too):

(http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/ctf4ish2-glitch.jpg)

Maybe it's the Netradiant version I'm using (20110819), because I also have problems with compiling. Anyway, we don't have much time for that, so a more experienced mapper should overtake the job!

Version 5 (glitched):
- jumppad arrows are properly colored (blue/red according where they lead)
- walls on RL platforms removed
- no bot support
- no levelshot
Package (.map included): z_oactf4ish2_v5.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_oactf4ish2_v5.pk3)

I'd like to do it, but I'm not capable.

I suppose we have to hope Neon Knight or someone else may find the time to do it. But I see Neon is already doing much work on maps on these days, I don't know if he will have the time to take fix this one, too.
Let's hope...

Looks like it was a NetRadiant problem, because compiling with GtkRadiant works well:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/upload/z_oa_ctf4ish2_v6.pk3

PK3 includes the aas, bsp, map, shader and arena file.
aas was created, bsp were changed, other files are untouched.

thx cacatoes for web space ;)

I will try this evening.

PS: you missed http:// at the beginning of the url. I really don't like this behavior of recent web browsers that do not show the protocol part of URLs... it brings to such problems!

I missed the point, that my browser (updated some days ago) now hides the protocol :((
I will edit my post above ;)

I tried it out. It seems that all works fine (bots,too) but I am missing textures on some jumppads... maybe you took textures from the new patch? (i havent it in)

There were no texture in Udis pk3.
Which textures are missing? i just compiled the map and took a look on the jumppads because of the glitches.

I have no problem with the jumppad textures on this map (v6 from Peter), even if I remove the patch.

I'm curious of what that shoot-through-grid will give in real match condition, we can both shoot from ground to top and from up to ground, I suspect it's for the good :p

I don't experience the jump-pad problem on my 0.8.8 RC test.

Peter... for me, the map could already be submitted to SVN thread (new deadline is november 18), but the levelshot is missing (well, if the map will be renamed to oa_ctf4ish instead of oa_ctfish2, I suppose it would automatically get the levelshot of the 0.8.5 map... but I'm not sure).

I suppose only time will tell us about the effectiveness of the (small) changes against campers. Maybe we could do something else, more effective (some other of the options in the poll?), but I fear we haven't much time left.

- I suspect you only have to put a license file in stuff you plan to distribute, and can supply only one file for the whole thing. Commiting to SVN precisely isn't for distribution purpose but to collect stuff which will be packaged and distributed, while distributing such ressources alone as external ressources would require that license file.
- oa_ctf4ish is GPL, so obviously derivatives also are

Some SVN posts not including the GPL thing:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.msg40827#msg40827
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.msg36718#msg36718
Won't dig more.

but i already correct this issue ;)
so we have no probs (in which direction ever) now :)

Checked the jump-pad issue that is in the picture http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3740.msg40851#msg40851 (http://), using official 0.8.8 pk3 file.

It is there, D'OH!!!!!!... Maybe I didn't saw it when I checked in previous RCs cause of it is visible only when looking at the platform from some specific angles.
Or maybe a different version of the map ended up in the final 0.8.8 release? I don't know.

I think OA really ought to have a centralized repository, there are a lot of fixes that are missed because of confusing many different versions of a same file...

@Gig: already was reported.

It took me a while to figure out what was.
Answer: bad brushing.
I had to do something which changed the look of that part, but at least, the glitch isn't there. This also fixed the Tele problem.

Submitted the changes to the SVNC thread.

You could report bugs like this in the NetRadiant bugtracker (http://dev.alientrap.org/projects/netradiant/issues), so they can improve their q3map2 fork.

I don't think so, Alientrap doesn't update NetRadiant since 2010 (http://dev.alientrap.org/projects/netradiant/repository)...

Actually they do:
http://nl.git.xonotic.org/?p=xonotic/netradiant.git;a=commit;h=30fdfe8ce
from 14 Jan 2012 11:32:15

Thanks! They've even fixed libpng 1.5 compatibility. I guess you'd have to submit tickes at Xonotic then; http://dev.xonotic.org/projects/xonotic/issues