[Ling] that other game

[fromhell]

At the same time of Dave3d i've also started 'ling' which would be for sw but radically different, in some ways, mainly style and protagonist being female instead as well as dropping the tasteless innuendo.

Rough test shot

I was bored and did a few sprites for it to define the style (as well as get the buildarts.bat working and ocmpiling a fresh new DOS binary)

[epicgoo]

is the objective to cut naked hot girls?

[jute]

Glad to see this!  I was hoping you'd do a "FreeSW" as well.  I can do music for it!

[fromhell]

I can do music for it!

If I can get midi support to work in the registered version, it could happen

[jute]

Are you having trouble with that?  I don't think I ever used anything but MIDI when playing both in DOS and with ports (I've never been a fan of CD-audio soundtracks).

[epicgoo]

shadow warrior is better than duke nukem 3d
( it has a unique style )

Ooh, must be American made!

[fromhell]

Are you having trouble with that?  I don't think I ever used anything but MIDI when playing both in DOS and with ports (I've never been a fan of CD-audio soundtracks).

The shareware version had MIDI, registered didn't. You couldn't even pick a midi device in the setup.

I did some wall textures and some floors, and the important ST1 sprite

[fromhell]

Siegler deleted my thread at 3DRealms about the project stating we can't "use materials from their games" and "can not do this in that fashion". Whether this is a misunderstanding or not will be seen.

Back to the drawing board? Upcoming false GNU-baiting shitstorm?

[jute]

But there was no problem with Dave3D, was there?  Strange.

It's interesting that there is no problem with all the Duke3D mods using Doom/Heretic/Hexen graphics that has 10+ page long threads on those forums.

[fromhell]

The Dave3D thread just got deleted too, even though he replied many months before that.

I guess this is their passive way of cease & desist from the greed of XBLA sales of Duke3D? Either way this is a very big middle finger, probably could incur the wrath of the GPL.

[jute]

That's too bad.  So what do you plan on doing about this?  Notifying the GPL people?

[fromhell]

I'll give it a day or two. If nothing positive comes out of it i'm wiping dave3d/ling folders from the SVN repository.
I'm not one for writing to the FSF though, someone else should do that on my behalf.

[jute]

Does this mean that barring good news you are planning on freezing/killing the projects?  This is very unfortunate.  I've posted in the FreeGameDev thread asking about 3D Realms' legal position, whether or not the FSF should be contacted, and how to go about that if so.

EDIT: by the way, have you considered starting a thread about this stuff on DoomWorld?  Many of the people there seem pretty knowledgeable about GPLs and free data projects for reasons I'm sure you know.

EDIT 2: I started that thread.

[fromhell]

EDIT: by the way, have you considered starting a thread about this stuff on DoomWorld? 

it exists, check blogs

[jute]

I am not a lawyer, but have you considered continuing work and just not advertising/recruiting on the 3D Realms forum?  That was suggested on FreeGameDev and seems reasonable.

[andrewj]

It is completely legal to create a 100% new set of game data for that engine.
That is a FACT.

So I think the real issue is whether Dave3D would be too similar to DukeNukem3D and thereby infringe their trademarks and copyrights.

It's no secret that Dave3D intends to be like DUKE, just as FreeDoom intends to be like DOOM.  It's almost inevitable given all the stuff that is hard-coded in the engine (weapon behavior, HUD layouts etc).

Damn.  I don't know where the line is, which if crossed would make Dave3D too similar to DUKE.  It's the sort of issue that only a court can ultimately decide, like how a song or book is considered infringing the copyright of another song/book or not.

Given that 3DRealms is hostile to this project, I think the only way to proceed is with extreme caution and make Dave3D as significantly different to DUKE as possible.  The enemies were probably gonna be very different anyway (cf FreeDoom), but it needs to apply to textures as well.

Would making it significantly different kill the urge to work on this project??

[jute]

Would making it significantly different kill the urge to work on this project??

I think this is the best idea by FAR, and it certainly doesn't kill my urge to work on the project.

[fromhell]

Well, I was going to make it differently anyway - the lizard enemies wouldn't be lizards. They'd be robots of some sort probably because itll have that corny 1995 cgi appearance I want to mock.

[jute]

So is work going to continue, then?

I would advise, as andrewj mentioned, making the textures less close reproductions and working on differentiating the weapons more.

[Stilgar]

Isn't Duke 3D being GPL a sham anyways, since the underlying BUILD engine isn't?

[fromhell]

No reply from Siegler still, and I've made myself clear about the art being original 2 times now.

[damocles]

Have you considered asking GB, and being very clear about what it is (a Free content project for their engine source release or "standalone TC") and is not (use of their assets, violation of the GPL [which does not have much bearing in this matter])?

Maybe ask to be more specific about what is assumed to be at stake (because different people are getting different ideas about what this is about)?  It may help to really take time to slowly review what everyone is thinking, lest we get what happened in the other threads, and maybe not even right this second.

[jute]

It certainly seems that this project is legally okay.  You aren't using assets, and you aren't violating the license for sure.  Again, I think as long as things are quite different there is no problem.  Looking at that comparison shot, I would advise further differentiating some aspects of the Dave3D hud: maybe using non-LCD numbers, and not placing the box headers (like 'ammo') in a way that is so similar to Duke Nukem 3D.

Edit: looking at the graphics more closely, I guess those hud numbers are already probably as differentiated as possible.

[jute]

Any updates on this?  If you're still thinking of canceling, I ask you to reconsider.  As many people have said, the project is 100% legal, no matter what Siegler thinks of it.  I'd hate to see either of these projects go when they're so promising (and I just wrote 75 minutes of music for one!)

[fromhell]

No reply, I still remain to be completely ignored.