oa_ctf4ish needs balance for campers

[Thoushaltdie]

if you can jump out of the lava  but if you are going to have a tiny pit of lava on that thin little platform why not make it something more realistic. (cuz in the cold vacuum of space there aint no lava) so why not make electricity running through the "grid" and say the platform is electrified?

[Gig]

Okay, let's do a "recap" of the various ideas, adding some new ones.

1) - Make the grid parts penetrable by shots. Like in the original Q3CTF4, other players will be able to hit the camper from below (from the flag area). And if the camper uses the grid to fire to that flag area, he will not be able to see other players reaching (and killing) him from the proper jump-pad in the center of the map. Rockets may explode against the edge with the "solid" part of the platform, causing damage to the camper even without direct hit.
2) - Make the two platforms completely of "grids" penetrable by shots. Similar to option 1), but the whole platform would be "transparent". You should see and aim at the camper better, but with rocket launcher you would need a direct hit to damage him
3) - Almost all penetrable grid, with a thin solid border. Like option 2), but with a thin external solid border, that allows rocket explosions.
4) - Grid made by solid material with real holes. Like option 2), but the "grid" will be made by "solid" material with "real" holes: almost any rocket will touch a solid part and thus explode, damaging the player over there.
5) - Place traps on the platforms. One has to be quicker as possible to get the rail and jump down: if someone activates a switch (pushing or shooting at it), the traps will kill who is on the platforms. Traps may simply crush (like q3tourney6), or fire mines from fixed positions, or fire rockets from fixed positions, or open a trapdoor over a lava pool....
6) - Place slime on the plaforms. The camper cannot stay too much time there. It should be impossible or at least difficult to stand on the border of the tub. Slime in open space may be strange?
7) - Place lava on the platforms. The camper has to take the rail and immediately jump down. It should be impossible or at least difficult to stand on the border of the tub. Lava in open space sounds strange.
8) - Electrified platforms. The whole surface of the two platforms should be "electrified", hurting the player, who needs to take the rail and jump down before getting too much damage. Similar to slime (option 6) or lava (option 8), but more "realistic" (if it is possible to say that) for a space map.
9) - Removing platforms. The two railguns will be suspended in the air, like the BFG. The jump-pads will push you to get the weapon and then you will land next to the flag.
10) - Platforms behind flags. The two platforms could be placed, instead of in vertical over the flags, behind them (the whole arena will be a bit longer than now)... in a way that you can get there with the same jump-pads as now, or maybe also with a rocket-jump from the flag. The important thing is that they will be not so high, so the camper would be easily killed!
11) - Moving platforms. If the platform moves continuously up and down, aiming from there should be very difficult, and thus camping there would be not so useful. But we should be sure that the jump-pads don't send you directly out from the map, when the platforms aren't at the usual place.
12) - Different weapon. Replacing Railguns with other weapons less efficient from that position (shotgun, grenade launcher, plasma, lightning gun, nail gun or prox mines).

Did I forget something?
If needed, maybe we could even start a poll with these options, but let's try to talk before that...

I propose option number 1)... and you?

[Thoushaltdie]

I like option 3. the whole being able to shoot through the grid is the best idea imo. But i think that the border should be reduced a bit. and also a fair amount of ideas assume you have access to the rocket launcher. A good camper can easily deny you that! Plus if you had one you could just rocket jump up to them from the jumppads in your base 

[Gig]

Where are gone all the guys?

[Peter Silie]

Still here but still without time...

[Thoushaltdie]

lol still here but i dont know how to alter maps so i cant really do anything plus i hear that fromhell is retiring the map in the next patch so it doesnt really matter

[Gig]

i hear that fromhell is retiring the map in the next patch so it doesnt really matter

I hear "tribute" maps will be wiped out from standard download, too... (I do not agree with that, but if this is the developers' choice...), but they should be available as a separate download package, If I didn't misunderstood. I think it should be better to fix that map before that package comes out (I don't know if they plan to develope further that package).

[Thoushaltdie]

i wish maps had a more central location. some are fringe maps for a perticular mod but it would be nice if they all were in some place to download instead of random incounts on the servers. and i really like the map suction from like 7.something but it is gone from later releases. can i still get it on 8.5? wait sry ill start a new thread about this. just in case ppl get annoyed yes i have a problem getting off topic in forums, im sry ill do better 

[Peter Silie]

i hear that fromhell is retiring the map in the next patch so it doesnt really matter

I hear "tribute" maps will be wiped out from standard download, too... (I do not agree with that, but if this is the developers' choice...), but they should be available as a separate download package, If I didn't misunderstood. I think it should be better to fix that map before that package comes out (I don't know if they plan to develope further that package).

Source?

[Gig]

Source?

What do you mean? Do you want the map's .map (source) file, to be able to update it yourself?

Or do you want to know the "source" that talked about wiping out tribute maps? He/she (I don't know) is fromhell... :-(
- See here
- and here.
I don't know the details. There may be more threads talking about this, I don't know...

PS: I love some tribute maps, like WRACKDM17....  :-( (I hope at least that it may be substituted by a map with different aspect/shape but similar idea: a small, "open" map, where you can both kill and being killed at every moment: a small and open map is very useful when testing something (for example, a mod, or any game option)...

[Graion Dilach]

They will be available as a separate addon.

Check the svn. packs/tribute.

[Peter Silie]

Thank you for your quick reply.
I checked svn and oa_ctf4ish is in this tribute folder.
No need to modify this map anymore

[Neon_Knight]

i wish maps had a more central location. some are fringe maps for a perticular mod but it would be nice if they all were in some place to download instead of random incounts on the servers. and i really like the map suction from like 7.something but it is gone from later releases. can i still get it on 8.5? wait sry ill start a new thread about this. just in case ppl get annoyed yes i have a problem getting off topic in forums, im sry ill do better 

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2424.0

[Gig]

No need to modify this map anymore

Why? It is in tribute folder... but it WILL BE downloadable (inside a separate package - "tribute pack" or similar, but still downloadable). Since many players like tribute maps, if the additional link will be visible enough when downloading OpenArena many people will download that pack.
I think this is the right moment to FIX that map bugs, before releasing the next OA version and the new map-pack.

Please, everybody, don't quit now. Let's select together one of the solutions above, and a good mapper should be able to apply that solution with little effort.

[Thoushaltdie]

we now have a poll

[sago007]

From the next version there will be two things the server admin can do about it:

"set replace_weapon_railgun weapon_bfg" - Replaces the railgun with a BFG: No more railing.
"g_spawnprotect 100000" - players take no damage the first 100 seconds after respawn.

[Cacatoes]

Interesting, I hope any items would be replaceable, so that it can be replaced for instance by a ... duck.
There was already disable railgun option.

I wouldn't consider having a long spawn protection be a solution for this map, still that cvar may have some other use.

For sure, ROFL servers will all have the tribute pack. I would have prefered to stick to baseoa and no download, but except abandonning that tribute pack idea I see no other solution.

[sago007]

Interesting, I hope any items would be replaceable, so that it can be replaced for instance by a ... duck.
There was already disable railgun option.

Like the disable option you can make your own server crash if you replace all the spawnpoints by something else. It also have some undesired effects on objectives but that is the price to pay.

[Bane]

I really and  cannot stress this enough I think replacing the rail with the BFG option is a very very bad idea because then it will just be camping and a BFG spamfest at least with the rail it requires good aim but with the BFG it’s just spam the whole area until something dies.

[Falkland]

Like the disable option you can make your own server crash if you replace all the spawnpoints by something else.

True, but items can be replaced with spawnpoints too ( http://forums.noghost.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=1996;hl=add+and+spawn )

[sago007]

True, but items can be replaced with spawnpoints too ( http://forums.noghost.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=1996;hl=add+and+spawn )

I am not sure that my replace-function works exactly like the noghost implementation. It sounded smart, so I implemented it but it does only replace the item, sometimes the entity has other properties like the triggers and location items that are not fully connected to an item.

[Thoushaltdie]

why would you replace the railgun with a bfg? there is already one on the map and it is already abused enough dont make one more accessable! why not replace it with a nailgun or chaingun or proxy mine or lightning? or as i suggested in my poll why not battlesuit? its the most underused powerup in the game.

[Neon_Knight]

I guess the "rail -> bfg" was just an example.

[Peter Silie]

Hehehe,

imagine ctf2 with bfg only when you like to play insta...

[Gig]

Hello everybody. I think we should fix also the BFG platform. It is made with a "grid" that projectiles don't penetrate. In Quake 3 Arena, instead, in Q3CTF4, that plaform has a "solid" part and a grid that shots can pass through, as you can see in the screenshot.