[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[Akom74]

@Gig: an huge "cluster portal" is useless,  in normal maps it's used for minor engine stress, don't know for BOTs, maybe help but i'm not sure.....

Akom, are you confusing clusterportals with areaportals or hint brushes maybe? Clusterportals are about bot navigation, while areaportals and hint brushses are about VIS... isn't it?
From Q3R Manual:
http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm#_Toc475185841
http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm#_Toc475185884

Tomorrow I'll take a look to Neon_Knight's test.

Bye!

PS: who wants to give feedback about v11 is welcome...

Maybe i've confused something.....

[Moixie]

I tested Udestruction ! Here are some points about which I reacted: (every point is treated by my opinion, you are free to disagree with them)

1] "[Railgun] can be over-powering in more open maps, so its inclusion is not always a good idea." from CPMA guide for competitive level making.
In this case, the railgun is even more powerful than the bfg, and it's easier to obtain it. Once on the top of the warehouse with the rg, on DM or CTF, you can easily take the control of the map. You should remove it, even if the map isn't intended to be a competitive map.

2] About the Hall of Pillar, I'd replace the pink tiles by dark tiles or the grey stone texture of the walls.

3] Many health and armor items, I like it.

4] There's a good flow all around the map. I could spent hours just bunny hopping on the aqueduc and throught houses/tower holes. Railgun can be pretty nasty against that. =/

5] There's a good lightning. there's no place too dark or too bright, the contrast between great buildings' shadow and sun's light works well. The "Fig.1" place is really beautiful.

6] In the reservoir, the sound seems to work well, I liked it.

7] The map seems to be done for Double Domination and Domination, however I don't like where the Dom and DD points are located. To I'd prefer them to be located where It's shown on the "Fig.2", red circles are original DD points location, yellow circle, where I'd like them to be. Red crosses are the actual Dom points, and yellow crosses where I'd like them to be.
In the actual version, there are 5 Dom points, which is IMO too many, moreover, some of them were impossible to defend or too close, like the 'higher tower" and the "aqueduct" ones. About the DD ones, IMO, the one in the tower was impossible to defend and the other was too easy to defend according to the lightning gun 3 meters away from it. Also, the "hall of Pilar" and the "reservoir" were, to me, perfect at this gametype.

8] The Target_Location system works really well, it's easy to know where we are or where teammates are located.

9] Like shown on the "fig.3", on the House, I'd put the jumppad closer from the warehouse than the original one. I'd also make the trajectory "curvier" by placing the target_position (purple circle) higher in the air, this is less brutal than the last one and it allows the player to choose where he wants to land. It's also easier to air-rocket him.

10] On the "fig.4", I'd had some platforms (2 or 3) above the warehouse stairs, so you could reach the aqueduc by strafing. Maybe a window throught the red square too.

It's not finished yet, the next message will follow in some minutes.

[Neon_Knight]

That CPMA guide doesn't always have the reason. It's intended for competitive maps, and, besides, it isn't really a problem on a map with plenty of places to hide from snipers/campers. It's no hydronex, at least. And this map has a lot of them. Though a bit more of things to get cover (especially from the aqueduct's POV, things such as columns, for example) wouldn't hurt. There's the Nailgun which is more effective at close range than the Shotgun, so you can bring snipers down with a simple nailgun hit.

[Moixie]

11] "fig.5", You should cut the wood board a bit earlier.

12] "fig.6", I didn't remarked it at first, you should make a curvy hole with barrels.

13] "fig.7", You should add pillars below the plaform.

14] "fig.8", there's a black stripe.

15] There are many bonuses, the chaingun and the BFG, which aren't good normally for the gameplay. But in this case, this is just good IMO. It takes time to get the BFG and it has only a few ammo. The chaingun is located out of the map, behind the reservoir, there's no need to camp at this place, and it runs quickly out of ammo so it's not so dangerous. Each bonuses bring a new way to play at the map, the haste allows you to reach some roofs which aren't normally reachable, the batlle suit allows you to do rocket jump freely, combined with the quad damage your jumps are just monstruous (didn't speak about the BFG jumps, no word to describe). However, there's no over-powered bonus, even with the quad damage, you're not invincible.

16] There are many good aesthetic ideas like the warehouse door in front of the house, the new textures used, the exterior look of the hall of pillar, the aqueduc look,...

17] When I played at CTF, I noticed there were respawns point pretty far away from flags. I havn't looked more precisely in the .map, so I can't be sure of that.

This make many points around your map, I hope I swept a good part of the map during the 2 last messages. I regret not to have paid more attention about weapons and items placement, but it'd required much time. I'll maybe do it later.

PS:

That CPMA guide doesn't always have the reason. It's intended for competitive maps, and, besides, it isn't really a problem on a map with plenty of places to hide from snipers/campers. It's no hydronex, at least. And this map has a lot of them. Though a bit more of things to get cover (especially from the aqueduct's POV, things such as columns, for example) wouldn't hurt. There's the Nailgun which is more effective at close range than the Shotgun, so you can bring snipers down with a simple nailgun hit.

I agree, the map isn't intended to be competitive and this guide doesn't really apply. However, the map is pretty open and I personally fear it becomes a camp field. IMO, There are actually too many maps which were ruined by the railgun, only a few map like aggressor or slimefac can have this weapon without becomming sniper land. Then, I've some personally hate the railgun so I am maybe paranoid on this point.

[pelya]

Good point about DD flag locations, I've agreed that current locations are okay, but that does not mean they cannot be improved. I would rather not touch DD point in the open area on the ground, because if you move it to the roof, people wii avoid that part of map (there's just a lightning gun there, and no other bonuses, but you becoming open to snipers).

[Neon_Knight]

That CPMA guide doesn't always have the reason. It's intended for competitive maps, and, besides, it isn't really a problem on a map with plenty of places to hide from snipers/campers. It's no hydronex, at least. And this map has a lot of them. Though a bit more of things to get cover (especially from the aqueduct's POV, things such as columns, for example) wouldn't hurt. There's the Nailgun which is more effective at close range than the Shotgun, so you can bring snipers down with a simple nailgun hit.

I agree, the map isn't intended to be competitive and this guide doesn't really apply. However, the map is pretty open and I personally fear it becomes a camp field. IMO, There are actually too many maps which were ruined by the railgun, only a few map like aggressor or slimefac can have this weapon without becomming sniper land. Then, I've some personally hate the railgun so I am maybe paranoid on this point.

If we disregard the Railgun's placement and how to deal with it, we're sacrificing important stuff about how this map might play on, for example, Instagib mode, which is pretty played. (And this comes from someone who hates the popularity fallacy)

The main problem with the weapons is the maps themselves. The original Q3 (and TA) has already done a very good work with map/item balance. This is the core gameplay, which OA aims to keep. The map gameplay should deal with the core gameplay in such way that the weapons aren't too overpowered, something which is covered, for example, with the Risk/Reward concept, where dangerous weapons are placed in dangerous/exposed places, and sniper areas can have the Railgun (or any other sniping weapon) at the cost of making rail/snipecamping extremely difficult for snipers/campers, so other players can be able to deal with them and still enjoy the game.

Here's a neat article about the core/map gameplay: http://www.moddb.com/tutorials/gameplay-basics-and-multiplayer-floorplan-introduction

[Gig]

I tested Udestruction ! Here are some points about which I reacted: (every point is treated by my opinion, you are free to disagree with them)

Thank you for your feedback. Let's see each point...

1] "[Railgun] can be over-powering in more open maps, so its inclusion is not always a good idea." from CPMA guide for competitive level making.
In this case, the railgun is even more powerful than the bfg, and it's easier to obtain it. Once on the top of the warehouse with the rg, on DM or CTF, you can easily take the control of the map. You should remove it, even if the map isn't intended to be a competitive map.

Maybe in very, very first versions of the map it was a problem. Now I think it's not: it does spawn every 45 seconds only, and there are only two ammo boxes for it around the map. And camping where it spawns is not safe due to the fact people may attack you from behind thanks to the jump-pad on your back.
About camping on the top of the warehouse.... uhm... I don't know... there are two different ways to reach that place (at least one of theam reaching you at your back if you're camping... without counting rocket-jumps)... and when you run out of slugs, although it's very quick to jump down to take the railgun again, you need some time to return back to the camping spot (unless you sacrifice 50 hp for rocket jumping there. RJ there is really quick, I admit -consider the map was made with Elimination in mind, so Rocket Jumps were encouraged since the beginning-). I don't know...

2] About the Hall of Pillar, I'd replace the pink tiles by dark tiles or the grey stone texture of the walls.

Pink tiles? Which pink tiles? No pink tiles should be visible! The only "pink" there should be the "botclip" brushes (appearing pink in Q3Radiant editor), but they should not be visible in-game. Maybe I did something wrong in the package? Could you please post a screenshot?

UPDATE: Maybe I got it. Are you talking about the red shingles, over the doors (on the outside of the building)? What's wrong with red shingles? Aren't those on your own house, too?  

3] Many health and armor items, I like it.

Thank you.

4] There's a good flow all around the map. I could spent hours just bunny hopping on the aqueduc and throught houses/tower holes. Railgun can be pretty nasty against that. =/

Thank you... rapid strafe-jump/rocket jump movement all around the arena is what I had in mind when I designed it.  
What? Do you mean that someone shooting at you may slow down your from strafejumping? Well, in this game there will always be someone shooting at you...  

5] There's a good lightning. there's no place too dark or too bright, the contrast between great buildings' shadow and sun's light works well. The "Fig.1" place is really beautiful.

Thank you. I didn't thought it as an especially beatiful place... However, your screenshot shows lighting/shade effects are nice enough there. 

6] In the reservoir, the sound seems to work well, I liked it.

Are you referring to the water falling sound? Isn't it too "low", especially with music turned on?

7] The map seems to be done for Double Domination and Domination, however I don't like where the Dom and DD points are located. To I'd prefer them to be located where It's shown on the "Fig.2", red circles are original DD points location, yellow circle, where I'd like them to be. Red crosses are the actual Dom points, and yellow crosses where I'd like them to be.
In the actual version, there are 5 Dom points, which is IMO too many, moreover, some of them were impossible to defend or too close, like the 'higher tower" and the "aqueduct" ones. About the DD ones, IMO, the one in the tower was impossible to defend and the other was too easy to defend according to the lightning gun 3 meters away from it. Also, the "hall of Pilar" and the "reservoir" were, to me, perfect at this gametype.

I don't know... I'm starting to be tired to make changes to the map (I'm working of this map since February, maybe?)... Maybe I could just move the "aqueduct" DOM point to either the hall of pillars or to the cistern (or adding a sixth point?)... But I don't know where exactly: I'd like to keep the same look for all DOM points (with that squared "marble" pedestal under them, and the circular energy field), without removing existing pick-ups to make room for them. Ideas?
Trivia: A side reason I placed the "aqueduct" DOM point was that I have not found a solution to mention the "aqueduct" word in target_location points (the aqueduct is long half the arena... so no target_location point mention it: just saying "aqueduct" for player position may have been too generic, isn't it?).... so I opted for a DOM point with that name, at least...   Is this stupid? A more functional reason was to give a reason to force someone to move away from the (camping spot?) DOM point on the highest tower for a while (to re-conquist the DOM point just below)... is this stupid? Would altering this a good or a bad idea?

About Double Domination, instead... since V9 the tower should be a little more easy to defend than before, thanks to the plasmagun now is inside it... and anyway DD maps do not need to need "balanced" (apart the fact it must be somehow possible to defend a place for 10 seconds, although with some effort), meaning that one place can be easier than the other one, considering you have to conquer both (but sending all your team to attack point A would however left point B undefended).

8] The Target_Location system works really well, it's easy to know where we are or where teammates are located.

Thank you!

9] Like shown on the "fig.3", on the House, I'd put the jumppad closer from the warehouse than the original one. I'd also make the trajectory "curvier" by placing the target_position (purple circle) higher in the air, this is less brutal than the last one and it allows the player to choose where he wants to land. It's also easier to air-rocket him.

I have not tried to do "curved" jumps..... however, initially I placed the accelerator pad exactly where you said. But it was a problem due to the fact I did often step over it accidentally, when exiting from the stairs (or when jumping from the roof of the cistern to the roof of the house). I tried to place a box between the stairs and the jump-pad, but I was not satisfied of the result (the box did obstacle movement, in this rapid-flowing map... and did not resolve the problem for getting there from the aqueduct)... so I decided to move the accelerator pad to a place where it would have been not possible to step over it for error.
In the very first beta I published, the accelerator-pad was already placed where it is (later, I just made a few fixes to its appearance and trajectory). I don't think to modify it.

10] On the "fig.4", I'd had some platforms (2 or 3) above the warehouse stairs, so you could reach the aqueduc by strafing. Maybe a window throught the red square too.

Maybe I could try this (may make the inner floor of the warehouse a bit more interesting. However, that would also make it faster to get the only BFG ammo box in the arena).... although further windows in the warehouse may further frustrate VIS optimization? Should I do it?

It's not finished yet, the next message will follow in some minutes.

Whoa!  

[Gig]

11] "fig.5", You should cut the wood board a bit earlier.

Uh? What would that change?   If the board is 50 cm longer or shorter, what's the difference?

12] "fig.6", I didn't remarked it at first, you should make a curvy hole with barrels.

That's just a very minor detail: initially, that hole wasn't there at all. Then I noticed that I may have made it possible to "show where the water enters the pool" without adding further polygons, just moving the side of one of a few units. Also, it's so thin due to the fact that making the hole a bit higher would have exposed the wall, revealing that there's nothing to see there. Do you think that detail is worth of adding more geometry to the map?

13] "fig.7", You should add pillars below the plaform.

Uhm... I fear they may obstacle free strafejumping. What if I would just place a couple of beams (supports) from the platform to the wall, without reaching the gound? I'll do wall supports, then you will tell me. 

14] "fig.8", there's a black stripe.

I don't know how to fix it. Maybe I could alter the shape of two bevels... but I'm not so happy of further modifying map shape. I may give it a look....

15] There are many bonuses, the chaingun and the BFG, which aren't good normally for the gameplay. But in this case, this is just good IMO. It takes time to get the BFG and it has only a few ammo. The chaingun is located out of the map, behind the reservoir, there's no need to camp at this place, and it runs quickly out of ammo so it's not so dangerous. Each bonuses bring a new way to play at the map, the haste allows you to reach some roofs which aren't normally reachable, the batlle suit allows you to do rocket jump freely, combined with the quad damage your jumps are just monstruous (didn't speak about the BFG jumps, no word to describe). However, there's no over-powered bonus, even with the quad damage, you're not invincible.

Thank you. By the way, BFG spawn time is 60 seconds, TA weapons (nailgun, prox mines, chaingun) is 30 seconds, Railgun is 45 seconds, grapple is 25 seconds, IIRC. All other weapons have default spawn time (30 secs in TDM, 5 secs in all other modes).

16] There are many good aesthetic ideas like the warehouse door in front of the house, the new textures used, the exterior look of the hall of pillar, the aqueduc look,...

Thank you.

17] When I played at CTF, I noticed there were respawns point pretty far away from flags. I havn't looked more precisely in the .map, so I can't be sure of that.

As also stated in map's readme file, I purposedly did NOT place team-specific spawn points in the map. The map is a FFA map, especially thought for Elimination (Clan Arena) mode... and I added support for all gametypes for completeness, but it's obvious it will never be a true CTF map. It's not meant that way. If I would have placed team spawn points next to the bases, some other parts of the map (far from the shorter flag-to-flag path) would have almost not used. Making players spawn randomly each time (you may spawn near to your flag, near to your opponent's flag, or far from both) gives an uncommon feel to the gameplay. You can actually have fun playing CTF, OneFlag, Overload or Harvester in this map, but of course overall design is not very adapt for them... I don't think it will ever be picked up for a CTF-based official Clan War...
Furthermore, Elimination uses team spawn points, if available... but I prefer a more classic "Clan Arena" style where you initially don't start "in your base", but randomly somewhere in the map (I don't know about glorious OSP mod's Clan Arena mode spawning points preference, but I know that mode was generally played on FFA maps!).

That CPMA guide doesn't always have the reason. It's intended for competitive maps, and, besides, it isn't really a problem on a map with plenty of places to hide from snipers/campers. It's no hydronex, at least. And this map has a lot of them. Though a bit more of things to get cover (especially from the aqueduct's POV, things such as columns, for example) wouldn't hurt. There's the Nailgun which is more effective at close range than the Shotgun, so you can bring snipers down with a simple nailgun hit.

Do you have precise suggestions about such places? Please keep in mind I would not like to "interrupt map flow" too much.

[Gig]

However, I wonder if a jumper on the ground at each corner wouldn't be better (as you can see on the picture in attachments). It would solve the bots problem once for all and the upper floor could become more interesting. But there are already some jumpers at 5 metters of them, should I change their trajectory, what if they led to the middle of the map ? If I added these jumpers, this would change the map's gameplay. I really don't know.

About your map: I don't know... in your drawing, that jump-pad seems to be in the middle of the way, and one may step over it for error... Maybe placing on a side?

About my map: Trying to follow one of your suggestions, you can see the screenshots attached. What do you think about that? Do you think a platform for strafejmping there (as a shortcut instead of passing through the new door) is required?

[Gig]

Here we are guys... UNDER DESTRUCTION V12 is available, attached to this post.

Again, I have not included "textures" folder, to keep file size smaller: you need to either have udestruction v10 or OACMP beta3 to see the textures.

I've worked on it more than what it seems... I've done many, many tests with botclip and cluster portal brushes (e.g. I tried using Neon_Knight botclip walls, but it turned out that way more "areas" were created, than with my previous botclip walls, so I returned using mine)... Of the two clusters with more than 1000 areas in V11, now I've been able to split one in about 600 + 400 areas... unfortunately, I've not been able to split the other one. There are also some more clusters now, but they have very few areas (20, 30, etc.).
I'd like to receive feedback about bot-related hitches: I think they are much less than V10... and maybe even a bit less than V11 (but I'm not completely sure). It seems to me that they often happen when someone activates the button that opens the door... any ideas? Is it just an impression?

Changelog against Version 11:

1 - Added walkable area above warehouse stairs, to make that floor more interesting. It's the request from Moixie, with a few changes from mine. Do you like it? Now you can cut through the warehouse from there... I puposedly made it of "(player-clipped)bars" instead of completely solid, to make it possible to shoot (or being shot!) through it. You can reach that place from the door in the wall or by walking on the thin rails on the walls... There are no bonuses of any kind up there, but it's another way to reach the aqueduct (jumping), near enough to (although not next to) the +50 health bonus (and in the opposite direction, you can more quickly reach ammo boxes in the warehouse from the aqueduct).
2 - The warehouse has now got a flooring, to make it look more "indoor".
3 - Changed positions of some ammo boxes. Most notably, one of the two railgun ammos has been moved next to the ruined house (next to the lightning gun: you have to go to that "exposed" place if you want that rare railgun ammo); its place in the hall of pillars has been taken by a chaingun ammo belt that was previously in the warehouse.
4 - Added a new jump-pad on the back of the aqueduct (except when playing in Harvester or Overload mode, that area was not very entertaining before!). Do you like it? Is it stupid? I suppose this should further discourage "red armor camping" (although I have no proof people like to camp there)...
5 - A few item_botroam fixes
6 - Added a boardwork that connects the higher tower to the roof of the warehouse. The reason is that, although it was possible to make that jump, bots often missed it, and sometimes even I missed it. Now you do not need to perform that "risky" jump anymore, hence it's easier to access the tower (and its Domination point). Do you like it? Or did I skrew up gameplay/map look?
7 - Added more cluster portals. I hope this makes bot-related "hichtes" less frequent, but I need feedback (e.g. is it better or worse than V11?). Bots behavior seems still acceptable to me, although their preference for some places has changed (now they perform the three jumps much less). Feel free to provide your feedback.
8 - Volume of water sounds is now louder.
9 - Added "Tourney" mode in .arena file. I previously thought that the map was too big for that mode, but I did a test and I found out it's not so bad as I thought (map openess makes it relatively easy to find the enemy, if he's not hiding).
10 - "Readme" file updated, mentioning the public domain sound file (waterfall2.wav) provided by Fromhell some posts ago. Maybe it's somehow a goofy mentioning... I hoped Fromhell may have stated if there's a proper "author" for that file...
11 - "Caulked" some faces of some brushes, that are never visible to players, due to touching the ground. I have not understood if that really saves a bit of rendering or not.
12 - Fixed illumination where water falls vertically.
13 - Added a new Domination point inside the cistern, and moved the "aqueduct" one near to the hall of pillars (still on the aqueduct). Do you like that? Now there are six Dom points, and you have to roam more or less all the map to reach all of them.
14 - Added two more Spawn points (one on the top of the cistern, and one next to the jail and to the first jump of the three). Okay?
15 - Added support staffs under platforms in the warehouse.

Update - I've just re-uploaded the file, with just this minimal change: I've explained in the readme file how to remove railgun and BFG, if one feels they are overpowered.

By the way, any news from Moixie or Jan? Some maps still require some fixes...

[Akom74]

Hi Gig.

I've downloaded this last version and i think you are very close to the final version.
You have learned well how to map and i hop to see a new map by you soon, for the Volume 2 maybe, and maybe a real arena in Q3A style, like q3tourney2 


About UdestructionV12, just 2 question:

1) Why are theese brushes outside of the .map



2) How much time take the compiling process (FULL_VIS Light Extra) ? On my PC it takes 53 minutes (about).

I've modified the .map file to avoid the ugly effect at the top of the external walls:

My version:


Your version:


I've also add a couple of brush in the pillars above the aqueduct, sorry mapper deviation

In the attachment you can download the .map file renamed in udestruction_akom 

[Gig]

Uhm... for Volume 2 i think I will only make a very small Tournament map (I'd like to try if it is possible to finish "gig island" in some way, however it's many years I don't open its .map or its .bsp... I have no idea if that was playable at all!). Under Destruction really sucked too much of my time. I have to concentrate more on real life... I cannot make a such effort again.

About 1): Ooops, I forgot to delete them. As told in the post above, I did MANY tests with clusterportals. When I found some layouts that seemed to have a nice effect, I moved them out of the map as a "backup", and continued doing more tests inside it, knowing that those additional tests may also have given worse results. I just forgot to delete those "backup" brushses.

About 2): Great! How did you obtain that fix? And by the way, which "pillars above the aqueduct"? I don't remember pillars above it... I have to download your version...   UPDATE: I got it... they are not "above". ^_^
My udestruction V12 compiling time is 7 min, 7 sec, on Intel Core i7 (4 cores + hyperthreading), using 8 threads. Of course, I had to tweak Q3Radiant settings to use all cores (for some strange reason, id Software left that stupid "-threads 1" option in "Fullvis extra" mode). To allow multithreading for that option in Q3R, you have to tweak your "quake.qe4" file (more accurate instructions here: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling).

[Gig]

Hi Akom! I've compiled your version. It takes 10 minutes and 48 seconds to compile on my system, quite longer than udestruction v12.

I've attached here the compiled .pk3, so anyone can try it (UDESTRUCTION V12 pk3 is required, too). Usage: /map udestruction_akom

Your lighting fix (upper border of the map) is good, but to have enough room for it, you have been forced to move the entire map, and this has got a few drawbacks:
- Now BSPC compiling says four "WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel". I previously noticed that this happens if you moved curve brushes together with other brushes (e.g. moving an entire map). I don't know if this has got real bad effects on bots, or not... and I don't know if moving the whole map from GTKRadiant or NetRadiant instead of Q3Radiant may prevent this from happening or not.
- Now when first appearing spectating in "inactive" warmup in Elimination, you cannot move for a while (two seconds, by default), due to 0,0,0 coordinates being partially in solid (although in a nice looking position)... (it's an Elimination bug, with some players "dying" and spectating from 0,0,0 coordinates at first "inactive" warmup... I previously digged the water-filled hole under the scaffolding to allow such players to move camera view).
I wonder if there may be some other way to fix that lighting, without having to move the entire map...

About the enlarged pillars below the aqueduct  , they are nice at looking, but it seems to me that in various places (where there is less space, e.g. next to the hall of pillars, or next to the cistern) they really obstacle movement...

[Akom74]

Hi Gig (and all of the other users )

Sorry for the "above" issue  , i mean below, you're right 

My modification for the pillars it's just an idea, you're not forced to use them if they create a sort of bug in playability.
For the warning in BSPC i dont think it's a problem theorically.
For the domination bug in point 0.0.0, just move the entire map of one or two blocks.

Don't take the akom's name in your map, i've fixed only the sky. 

[Neon_Knight]

Should I wait until the next version of udestruction for the packing of the first RC?

[Gig]

We are still waiting for fixed versions of moixie and jan's maps...

And by the way, some feedback about udestruction v12 would be welcome (e.g. Moixie do you like how I did implement your idea? Fromhell, how are going "hitches" on low-end hardware, now? And is there a known "author" to mention, for that "fountain2.wav" PD sound?).

[Akom74]

And what about Babel textures ? In oa_akomdm1 there are a couple of it.

Tell me if i have to change and recompile the map(s).

[Neon_Knight]

Hmmmm... I don't know. We had a problem with TRaK's texturepacks before. We'll have to wait for fromhell's word. Has more experience with GPL than I.

[Gig]

Hey, in my map I managed to fix the sky like Akom did, also without moving the entire map (by the way, moving the whole map from GTKRadiant would have not caused the "invalid bevel" warning when compiling BSPC, but another warning "MergeWindings: front to back found twice". I don't know if such warnings have correspond to any real issue with map looking/working or bot navigation... however I avoided them, not moving the map).
After various tests, I made the sky higher (adding four lateral sky brushes near to the top), adding a playerclip brush to prevent pepole from looking at the map from above the outer walls. Similar to Akom's solution, but simpler due to the fact the sky is not larger (wider?) than the rest of the map.

Sorry I have not found a way to fix the "black stripe" Moixie mentioned (figure 8 in the image) here. I have not yet tried adding proper "light entities"...

I think I'm almost ready for a V13... but however I'd like some feeback about V12 before.

Where are Moixie, Jan, Fromhell, Pelya...?

[Akom74]

Where are Moixie, Jan, Fromhell, Pelya...?

And also Adriano... 

I think that real life need all, generally speacking....... maybe we have to wait....

[Moixie]

Where are Moixie, Jan, Fromhell, Pelya...?

Moixie is here ! I havn't much time these weeks, however I should be able to post final versions of the maps this sunday, at the latest.

Then, I still have the bot problem on the dm-space map, they apparently can't reach the first floor.
Actually, the working solutions I found were:
- sticking the jumppad to the ground floor platform (it's ugly, dirty, provocating, ...).
- adding teleporters/changing jumpads/modifying ground floor look so there would be a horizontal jumpad inlaid on the ground. But I like how the 8 jumpads system at each limits of the map + a central one under the ground is.
Also, I don't feel like making great changes to the map, I have nor inspiration nor time for this. I believe there isn't any other great problem unfixed.

Last thing, if someone noticed anything or would like anything to one of the 2 maps I proposed, he's free to tell it. I think they can still be well improved but I really don't see how.

ps: I will change item placement on the CTF, I made it quickly the first time and I made some mistakes.

[pelya]

I'm so sorry, my job is keeping me busy, and my weekends got ruined by IRL things.
*pelya hides in shame*

[Gig]

Moixie, why don't you just place some boardworks or steps that would connect those four jump-pads (those that push to the upper floor) to the main structure? Is there some reason for players actually have to jump to reach them?
I think that steps with the same look of the already existing staircases may fit... or a sort of playerclipped "energy beam" that would link those jump-pads to the main structure may fit, too.

PS: Your comments about Udestruction V12?

[jangroothuijse]

new version of jgdm2:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta5.pk3
fixes:
has music, you dont fall off of stuff after teleporting, more spawnpoints, has a longname while loading.

About the shader refactoring.. perhaps that can wait untill a conflict arises, or this packs gets integrated in something...?

[Gig]

Hi Jan, thank you for the update.  

About the shader refactoring.. perhaps that can wait untill a conflict arises, or this packs gets integrated in something...?

When a conflict arises, that may already be too late for a simple and rapid fix. I would suggest, at least, to do not use /common folder for OACMP textures or shaders (IMHO, best thing would be doing like I did, however avoiding to place custom things under /common folder may already be something good).
Complete texture renaming is not so hard as it sounds, thanks to Radiant "Find/Replace" texture tool (otherwhise, one may also use a plain text editor).
This packs aims to be as popular as possible: although these maps will probably not be part of OA official releases, we hope they would work flawlessy on both OA 0.8.x and on the future OA3 reboot...

UPDATE: I tested the new version. Music and teleporters seem ok.
... but:
1) There is still that (almost unnoticeable) glitch where a rocket is just above that teleporter (first screenshot)... are you sure there are no overlapping brushes there?
2) I noticed a small glitch I did not notice before (I noticed it while spectating), in the corner you see in the second screenshot... at the bottom of the wall, where the wall enters the light...
3) In the place where I am in the third screenshot, there is that wall on the right of the screen... there is a spawn point there that makes you spawn right in front of it, quite near to it (In the screenshot, I moved my aim to the left, to let you understand on which platform I am standing). It's not a proper bug, but you may wish to give it a different facing angle...
4) Trying with 16 players, there are still 4 inital telefrags (in the previous version, there were 6, IIRC). How many new spawn points did you add? It looks like we still need 4 more of them.... (maybe you may check that all or none of them have the "initial" flag set).

PS: Now I have not looked back to all posts from July/August: I cannot assure there were not other problems previously pointed out....