[REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL

[Akom74]

I think Akom should decide.

I don't think so, theese are not my maps.

[pelya]

In 1fctf the secret teleporter brings you back to the secret entrance, not to flag, but in DD it's a shortcut.
I did not notice railgun inside the flag, I guess it should be disabled for team gamemodes.

[jangroothuijse]

Time ago I noticed a way that allowed to know if a map had items that did not spawn due to trying to spawn in solid... loading the map and looking at the console output, under the ---- map loading ---- section it mentioned the XYZ coordinates where these problems were (and which kind of item had the "startsolid" problem). Doing it from a dedicated server session is even easier, due to the console showing much less unneeded data. This method (or even a better one, if existing) for detecting these errors may be mentioned somewhere in mapping-related wiki pages.

Applying this test to current versions of OACMP maps:
- Akom's maps: no other errors, but two shotguns in NK version of oa_akomdm3.
- Udestruction: no such errors.
- Moixie's maps: no such errors.
- Oajgdm3, Oajgctf1: no such errors.
- Oajgdm1: 1 armor shard, 1 small health and 2 standard health with "startsolid" problem. Also mentions a few items not reachable for bots.^[1]
- Oajgdm2: it mentions various items with the "startsolid" problem.

Jan, are you still around for these fixes?

^[1]I don't know what can cause it to say an item is "not reachable" for bots. I just tried a test map (in Q3) with some items appositely placed where bots cannot go (on very high platforms or supended), and console output doesn't mention the problem. Hence, I can guess the lack of such message is not a warranty that bots are really able to reach all items. Other possible explainations may include possibility of OA showing a message Q3 does not show (sounds strange, but who knows?), or my test map containing a grapple (although I appositely compiled aas without grapplereach option for this test).

Monday the 13th i should have some time..

[Gig]

Monday the 13th i should have some time..

In case you wish, some posts with some other notes:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg49461#msg49461
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg49464#msg49464
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg49465#msg49465
PS: and there were some other notes, from months ago, about oajgctf1 lateral tunnels (Akom asked for some lights there -I don't know if that has already been done-, and I asked for a few machinegun bullets ammo boxes there).

[Neon_Knight]

Only passing to say that until next Monday I won't be able to work on the maps.
For this reason, Akom, you might want to work on your maps, using my versions or your last versions if you wish.

[Akom74]

Only passing to say that until next Monday I won't be able to work on the maps.
For this reason, Akom, you might want to work on your maps, using my versions or your last versions if you wish.

I don't know what to change, for month my maps were be ok (in my thought).
A Maybe some VIS compiling improvement or bot roaming improvement, but i'm not able as you in this way 

I accept some suggestion for these changes.

[pelya]

As for me, re-arranging weapons and fixing glitch from Akom's screenshot on oa_akomdm2 and fixing missing texture and removing railgun in oa_akomdm3 with 1FCTF gamemode are enough to call them ready for release (once again, since I was happy with original versions).

[Neon_Knight]

Before that, I'll leave a homework for Akom:

Read this tutorial, open my version of oa_akomdm3, and check where you can place hint brushes: http://linradiant.intron-trans.hu/docs/Vis%20and%20Hint%20Brushes.html
Also read this: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/User:PumpkinKnight/Sandbox/Hint_brushes

For the record, both methods (all faces hint/one face hint and the rest skip) do work well, but for clarity's sake, use the one face hint method for hint brushes.

BTW, I'm still able to enter to the forum, and I can play OA from my netbook, but playing and mapping with this sucky touchpad isn't recommendable.

[Akom74]

Can i suggest a kind of cooperation team ?

Unfortunately i'm not able to manage VIS tricks or some strange BOT roaming tricks  .
I'm only able to build a map and some little "cool" things  .

My suggestion for this Team is:

- Akom74, Moixie and Jan build the maps with complete building brushes and items.
- Gig as tester for some suggestions about gameplay and other stuff.
- Pelya as tester for mobile devices (and about gameplay too).
- Neon_Knight as performer for VIS and BOTs roaming (but maintaining the original map layout as much as he can).
- Other members are welcome....

This is about Volume 2, to avoid misunderstandings or other issues.

What about this idea ?

[Neon_Knight]

It would help a lot if the maps are planned with VIS blocking in mind. Also, it's a duty of the mapper to plan with optimizations in mind.

Which reminds me that I still have to complete the Mapping Manual. Something which I'll do once I return to my home.

[Akom74]

It would help a lot if the maps are planned with VIS blocking in mind. Also, it's a duty of the mapper to plan with optimizations in mind.

Which reminds me that I still have to complete the Mapping Manual. Something which I'll do once I return to my home.

Err, sometimes mapper don't know how to improve VIS process 

[Neon_Knight]

While searching for Q3 maps to add to the MapCompat list, I've found this, which is relevant to this pack, and enforces my reason to use any GPL'd versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC, and which ends the discussion and seals the deal about the issue.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=953.msg7090#msg7090

Basically, the Q3Radiant versions of Q3Map and BSPC are non-free. Hence, whether you like it or not, the release versions of the maps must be compiled with non-free versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC.

It would help a lot if the maps are planned with VIS blocking in mind. Also, it's a duty of the mapper to plan with optimizations in mind.

Which reminds me that I still have to complete the Mapping Manual. Something which I'll do once I return to my home.

Err, sometimes mapper don't know how to improve VIS process 

Mapping is 50% learning and 50% practice, and there's a lot of documentation in this era about how to map and many other subjects. So if you don't know how to do something, you must learn how to do it.

Besides, haven't I gave you two links to read about optimization?

[Akom74]

While searching for Q3 maps to add to the MapCompat list, I've found this, which is relevant to this pack, and enforces my reason to use any GPL'd versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC, and which ends the discussion and seals the deal about the issue.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=953.msg7090#msg7090

Basically, the Q3Radiant versions of Q3Map and BSPC are non-free. Hence, whether you like it or not, the release versions of the maps must be compiled with non-free versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC.

It would help a lot if the maps are planned with VIS blocking in mind. Also, it's a duty of the mapper to plan with optimizations in mind.

Which reminds me that I still have to complete the Mapping Manual. Something which I'll do once I return to my home.

Err, sometimes mapper don't know how to improve VIS process 

Mapping is 50% learning and 50% practice, and there's a lot of documentation in this era about how to map and many other subjects. So if you don't know how to do something, you must learn how to do it.

Besides, haven't I gave you two links to read about optimization?

Ehm, but the NETradiant is released under GPL, or is not ?
I've copyed the Q3Map and BSPC from the NETradiant folder in Q3Radiant folder and it use them.

Am i ok for official mappacks ?

[Neon_Knight]

Well, if that's the case, you should be able to see the q3map parameters when you open the .bsp file with a text editor such as Notepad++ or Windows' own Notepad. They are located near the string "worldspawn".

If you can see them (I can't see them right now) then yes, your maps are GPL-compliant.

[Akom74]

Well, if that's the case, you should be able to see the q3map parameters when you open the .bsp file with a text editor such as Notepad++ or Windows' own Notepad. They are located near the string "worldspawn".

If you can see them (I can't see them right now) then yes, your maps are GPL-compliant.

I see this opening it with Win-Wordpad:

"message" "Skybridge - By AKom74"
"classname" "worldspawn"
"music" "music/OA02.ogg"
}
{
"classname" "weapon_bfg"
"origin" "-1344 0 728"
}

At the bottom of the bsp file. This is only a little part, the list continue noticing every item, every spawnpoint end avery light.

[Gig]

While searching for Q3 maps to add to the MapCompat list, I've found this, which is relevant to this pack, and enforces my reason to use any GPL'd versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC, and which ends the discussion and seals the deal about the issue.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=953.msg7090#msg7090

there's no way any of these can be gpled
[...]
5. non-Free compiler used to compile it (these are mostly doen from pre-gpl q3map/q3map2)

Basically, the Q3Radiant versions of Q3Map and BSPC are non-free. Hence, whether you like it or not, the release versions of the maps must be compiled with non-free versions of Q3Map2 and BSPC.

Apart from the fact I'm still not sure about where the GPLv2 requires the compiler to be opensource...
Q3Radiant and Q3MAP have been realeased under GPL, here's the source code:
https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena
https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/tree/master/q3radiant
https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/tree/master/q3map
... may someone find Windows binaries compiled from GPL sources, please? That would be okay! 

And about BSPC, I haven't seen if that's there, however there is no need to use the version which comes with the original non-gpl version of Q3Radiant: we can simply compile .AAS file with a later BSPC version (e.g. I used the one which comes with GTK Radiant 1.5), even if the map was compiled with Q3MAP(1).

[Neon_Knight]

I want to take as less risks as possible regarding the GPL complianceness of this pack.
At any doubt it's better to take the safer way than to get a problem.

BTW, I've just returned to my home. I'm going to take a look at the many pending things.

[Akom74]

I want to take as less risks as possible regarding the GPL complianceness of this pack.
At any doubt it's better to take the safer way than to get a problem.

BTW, I've just returned to my home. I'm going to take a look at the many pending things.

All GPLv2 problems will be clarified by Fromhell, who decide to take the OACMP and give us tha OK, or to tell us what is to change or not.
I write this because is Fromhell that have the last word about it, right ?

[jangroothuijse]

OAJGDM1beta5:
- Some texture misalgments seem to have been fixed. Although a few texture/brush misaligments seems to still be there.

Fixed

And shots do continue to impact on the white wall, while in my humble opinion would have been nicer to disappear "surfaceparm noimpact" or "surfaceparm nomarks" (however that's just a detail).
(check first three screenshots attached)

Wont fix.

OAJGDM3beta7:
- Good, altohugh I noticed that firing rockets where you see the border "burned" in the fourth screenshot, a sort of black vertical line appears, maybe caused by overlapping brushes (or patches?). I don't know if it's worth spending time, however it's a thing I noticed.

Wont fix; i dont think i can help this, the 'scorch' texture in the screenie isn't pasted on the patch...

OAJGDM2beta9:
- Seems good at a first look, although there are still a few places where firing a rocket causes strange artefacts to be shown (see first two screenshots).
- I don't remember if there were more issues with the previous versions...

Fixed the first, couldn't find the overlap in the second, are you sure that is still a problem?

Also added music to the ctf map

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/zzzzzz_jan_maps.pk3

[Neon_Knight]

Yay Jan! I'll add them to the Wiki page, and later test them.

Akom, I've attached an example of a map compiled with the Q3MAP2 version which comes with NetRadiant. It's from one of 0.8.8's maps. Such lines are generated automatically at compiling time, they aren't really added to the .map file since NetR doesn't know which settings q3map2 will use until the map gets compiled.

I've checked out my version of oa_aomdm3 and such version lacks of these automatically generated keypairs.

[Gig]

Hi, Jan. First, thank you for the update.  

Now, let's see.

OAJGDM1beta5:
- Some texture misalgments seem to have been fixed. Although a few texture/brush misaligments seems to still be there.

Fixed

And shots do continue to impact on the white wall, while in my humble opinion would have been nicer to disappear "surfaceparm noimpact" or "surfaceparm nomarks" (however that's just a detail).
(check first three screenshots attached)

Wont fix, if a missle dissapears in a teleporter, i expect it will exit on the other side.

Okay, no "noimpact", then. But not even "nomarks"? I suppose I should not insist more.  

OAJGDM3beta7:
- Good, altohugh I noticed that firing rockets where you see the border "burned" in the fourth screenshot, a sort of black vertical line appears, maybe caused by overlapping brushes (or patches?). I don't know if it's worth spending time, however it's a thing I noticed.

Wont fix; i dont think i can help this, the 'scorch' texture in the screenie isn't pasted on the patch...

Not sure I understood what you mean, however if it's not easy to fix, it doesn't matter...  
I see you have not included DM3 with the latest package, then the "current" version of it is still the last you you previously sent (I don't remember if before or after RC2, right now).

OAJGDM2beta9:
- Seems good at a first look, although there are still a few places where firing a rocket causes strange artefacts to be shown (see first two screenshots).

Fixed the first, couldn't find the overlap in the second, are you sure that is still a problem?

I still see it (only when firing rockets there, see attached screenshot)... however if it's not caused by overlapping brushes, I don't know. If it's not fixable, patience.

Also added music to the ctf map

For background music in the ctf map, unfortunately you specified OA03.ogg file, which does not exist. Only 0.8.8 available music files are OA01, OA02, OA06, OA07, OA08, OA13, OA14. Please pick one of them.
PS: Are you sure you are not going to fix those lateral tunnels (illumination, adding machinegun ammo)?

Jan, a thing I just noticed (better late than never! ), is that all the four maps from you seem to invoke a missing sound: sound/misc/windfly. Could you please check? Thank you!

More, it looks like there are still "spawn solid" items in some maps.   These should be checked as well.

PS: I'd like to know from Neon_Knight about the use of texture folders that may ovveride those from OA (such as evil_ textures).

[Neon_Knight]

sound/misc/windfly sounds like a default Q3A sound. Let me create a replacement in a few minutes.

We can include OA03.ogg in the final release. No biggie, Gig.

About evil* textures, we're going to take the easy way out and rename them to oacmp_evil*. This is something I will take care of.

[Gig]

sound/misc/windfly sounds like a default Q3A sound. Let me create a replacement in a few minutes.

If Jan created his maps with GTK/NetRadiant since the beginning, how did Q3-only stuff sneak in? However, replacements for Q3 assets (with the same path/filename) should be part of official OA patches, not mappacks as this one. Of course, if it's a Q3 sound, we can create a replacement for it, but it should be moved to a different path, and the maps updated accordingly.

And by the way, how is that sound used in those maps? I have not searched for target_speaker entities with Jan's maps opened in the editor, yet...

We can include OA03.ogg in the final release. No biggie, Gig.

Uh? A "music/OA03.ogg" file seems something that should end up into an official OA release, not in a mappack. I think it would be more logical to just modify the map to use an existing music. By the way, who knows if we may simply manually modify a line in both .map and .bsp files, and then recompile aas only (if necessary), if you wish to avoid the time required to compile the map again?

About evil* textures, we're going to take the easy way out and rename them to oacmp_evil*. This is something I will take care of.

Interesting. Don't forget it does also concern .shader files (I suppose in both filename and content).

Another thing: Release date of 15/01 is impossible (there are still various things to fix: some simple, like those items in Moixie maps which appear partially in the ground.... and some which require more time... if we cannot include maps compiled with Q3Radiant/q3map, then there is some more work required to adapt them to q3map2. If we can use maps compiled with Q3Radiant, then I would just need one or two days for a few other tests with ambient light.), what's the next date? 31/01? 15/02?

[Akom74]

Uh? A "music/OA03.ogg" file seems something that should end up into an official OA release, not in a mappack.

I've done the same with oa_akomctf2 

 

[Neon_Knight]

Well, it seems that I have to use the original versions of the maps. I'm going to pack the following for tomorrow's release:
- Akom's dm4, dm5 (if I can, I'll fix the ceiling issue) and ctf1.
- My versions of Moixie's maps (the CTF map has already fixed the func_static bug) and Akom's dm1, dm2 and dm3.
- Jan's dm1, dm2, dm3 and ctf1.
- Gig's v17 of udestruction. Without ambient light.

Also, Gig, I haven't found in either the BSP or the MAP files the sound you have quoted. Are you sure you aren't using something else aside of the official packages and the OACMP releases? And the music is not a big deal.

And about akomdm2 I still have to hear a good argument about getting the Nailgun out of a map which isn't "it's not a standard weapon". And, besides, the reason of the current weapon/item layout is to make the map not being too symmetrical. Though only (and ONLY) because I was asked to do so, I'll remove the NG and add the RG in place of the Tele.