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Author Topic: wth bro??  (Read 17174 times)
SnApPy
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« on: July 29, 2014, 06:27:09 PM »

this is what i got tryin to get into a server thru multiplayer to play online.. wth do i do to get back in this game? after it says this it completely exists the game..... ??   Sad lost bro..
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 06:32:59 PM by SnApPy » Logged
SharpestTool
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 10:04:07 PM »

Reinstall the game....the file is probably corrupted.
You can also just download the zip files and extract the original to your baseoa folder.
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fromhell
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 11:32:13 PM »

you could go to your baseoa folder in your openarena folder in your roaming folder in your appdata folder in your barbara folder in your users folder and delete that specific pk3 file
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
andrewj
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 12:19:08 AM »

It occurs to me how this game (engine) lets you download stuff, but provides no facilities to remove or even see what has been downloaded.

For a UI (HCI) perspective, it's not good, but who feels like coding something up? (Tip: not me, heh)
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Gig
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 01:18:55 AM »

you could go to your baseoa folder in your openarena folder in your roaming folder in your appdata folder in your barbara folder in your users folder and delete that specific pk3 file
Shortcut: you can reach that specific folder by typing "%appdata%\openarena\baseoa" in your address bar. You can delete that pk3 and let the game autodownload it again when you will connect to anoter 0.8.8 server. Let us know.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 01:21:29 AM by Gig » Logged

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fromhell
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 01:52:21 AM »

It occurs to me how this game (engine) lets you download stuff, but provides no facilities to remove or even see what has been downloaded.

More reason to shove paks in a cache subfolder with md5sums as filenames that get loaded when available
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
SnApPy
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 07:49:20 AM »

ok thanks yall will try that. hope it doesnt say that message after i download it again bc that message u see in pic was after re-downloading lol...    Rest In PEACE! Shocked Angry Grin
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SnApPy
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 10:39:00 AM »

thank u all very much problem is solved due to the deletion of the pk3's. XD
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andrewj
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 06:42:21 AM »

More reason to shove paks in a cache subfolder with md5sums as filenames that get loaded when available
So...... server says "you need paks with these md5 sums : blah blah blah......"

client says "wait a minute, bro, I don't have 861349871624389174"

server says "no prob, dude, I'll send it to you......"

Add a "Clear Cache" button somewhere (ideally with an age option) and I think that system will work very nicely.
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grey matter
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 04:11:08 PM »

So...... server says "you need paks with these md5 sums : blah blah blah......"

client says "wait a minute, bro, I don't have 861349871624389174"

server says "no prob, dude, I'll send it to you......"
Except for the hash algorithm, this is how pure server/autodownload works currently.
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andrewj
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 12:45:00 AM »

Except for the hash algorithm, this is how pure server/autodownload works currently.
Oh I assumed it mainly filename-based (with md5 kinda tacked on)

Anyway, do you see any reason why OpenArena should not adopt lei's proposal? (Not counting that some people don't like it when anything changes)
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SharpestTool
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 02:11:57 PM »

Personally, I'm not a fan of the ioquake setup to store stuff in AppData on Windows.  Its a mess and with standard permissions, the user has no control over this directory.  Putting on my developer hat here, it'd be nice to have more capable users but that's looking for a rooster to lay eggs.  (And its a Linux problem too as how many noobs there are out there just d/l'ing Poobuntu.  Every addition should just be called Lamest Latest.)

How about storing the hashes in a listed file on the client and displaying that to the client if the file is found but with the wrong hash? Also what about forcing baseoa to use only stock qvm's and prevent downloads that overwrite the original pk3's.   this way a derpy server can't download garbage to the baseoa folder and ruin everyone's experience who connects to it.

That's the biggest problem I see....not derpy users but derpy servers.
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Gig
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 02:40:43 AM »

Personally, I'm not a fan of the ioquake setup to store stuff in AppData on Windows.  Its a mess and with standard permissions, the user has no control over this directory.
The place ioquake3 uses is the place many other programs use to store user settings/user data (e.g. Mozilla Thunderbird).
With standard permissions, windows users can go there and manage files there... the "problem" (if we can call it problem)  is that they have to pass through an hidden folder (application data/appdata) before they reach this... so they have to manually enter the path, or enable hidden files view, or to type the %appdata% shortcut.

It's possible to start the game with a specific option to save such stuff to another location of your choice. However, you need to enter that option each time (a simple shortcut can do the trick).

However, I don't know if something like an "ultra pure" option (to force only official pk3 files to be used) would be feasible... one has to consider there are many forks for the game... many people use binaries not downloaded from official site... and also making our own patches may become somehow more difficult. Digital signing official pk3s may work, but sounds a bit against the game's openess. Of course, the game should be allowed to continue working as usual, unless one enables the "ultra pure" option... Just a few thoughts...
Note: just not enabling "autodownload" option may seem similar... but after enabling autodownload once, or after manually adding extra stuff to your OA, that would not be the case anymore.

Gig from cell phone.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 02:46:00 AM by Gig » Logged

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grey matter
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 12:37:40 PM »

It occurs to me how this game (engine) lets you download stuff, but provides no facilities to remove or even see what has been downloaded.
More reason to shove paks in a cache subfolder with md5sums as filenames that get loaded when available
Anyway, do you see any reason why OpenArena should not adopt lei's proposal? (Not counting that some people don't like it when anything changes)

The reason is most likely that .pk3 files should be transparent  to the gamecode, so one would have to come up with new syscalls or write some engine-only code, both of which sucks.
Not sure how "loaded when available" would work locally or be different to the current system.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the ioquake setup to store stuff in AppData on Windows.  Its a mess and with standard permissions, the user has no control over this directory.  Putting on my developer hat here, it'd be nice to have more capable users but that's looking for a rooster to lay eggs.
That's what %APPDATA% is meant for. Gone are the XP times were everyone ran software as admin, happily writing to C:\Program files\.. (also see Filesystem Hierarchy Standard).
If you want the users to be able to find that folder, add a shortcut (.lnk) to the OpenArena Windows version.

How about storing the hashes in a listed file on the client and displaying that to the client if the file is found but with the wrong hash?
So what does Joe Average do if you tell him "zzz-proskins2.pk3 has md5sum 12345 locally but 54321 on the server"?
If that file is required to play on the server, there's only "download or disconnect" as sensible options.

Also what about forcing baseoa to use only stock qvm's and prevent downloads that overwrite the original pk3's.   this way a derpy server can't download garbage to the baseoa folder and ruin everyone's experience who connects to it.

That's the biggest problem I see....not derpy users but derpy servers.
Sloppy server admins are horrible, agreed. I would not prevent them from running a modded baseoa though, it might be neccessary for server-side fixes or mods. Determining whether a .pk3 overwrites content of other .pk3s is not quite possible with the current system and also depends on your vfs setup.

many people use binaries not downloaded from official site... and also making our own patches may become somehow more difficult.
I'm using plain ioquake3 with a launcher script, since the official outdated OA binaries don't work on my system. Changing autodownload/sv_pure sounds like a can of worms you'd rather want to avoid.

Note: just not enabling "autodownload" option may seem similar... but after enabling autodownload once, or after manually adding extra stuff to your OA, that would not be the case anymore.
The .pk3 files really lack metadata. If only they'd say "Hey, I'm a GPL'ed CTF map and require OA 0.8.5+ and some-mappack-v2 with its foobar textures and shaders".
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asmanel
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2014, 06:38:51 AM »

An other way to solve the problem is create a .bat file in the OA folder and add this in :
Code:
.\openarena.exe +set fs_homepath ".\althomepath"

It will reset the variable fs_homepath and write the data files in a folder called althomepath in the OA folder when the game is launched via this bat file.
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SharpestTool
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 12:03:44 AM »

The reason is most likely that .pk3 files should be transparent  to the gamecode, so one would have to come up with new syscalls or write some engine-only code, both of which sucks.
So everyone else knows (I know you do Grey), pk3's aren't visible the gamecode.  The only thing that handles the pk3 itself is the engine, treating it as a zip file (which is what it is).   The gamecode sees the assets directly as one big file/directory structure.    The engine handles duplicate asset names by including the one contained in the pk3 whose name is the highest numerical value.

That's what %APPDATA% is meant for. Gone are the XP times were everyone ran software as admin, happily writing to C:\Program files\.. (also see Filesystem Hierarchy Standard).
If you want the users to be able to find that folder, add a shortcut (.lnk) to the OpenArena Windows version.
It's not removed when the game is AND if there is a duplicate pk3 in the APPDATA folder, it defaults to that. See below for the fix.

So what does Joe Average do if you tell him "zzz-proskins2.pk3 has md5sum 12345 locally but 54321 on the server"?
If that file is required to play on the server, there's only "download or disconnect" as sensible options.
Make it the player's decision to risk screwing up the install.   But we can mitigate the experience...see below for the fix.

Sloppy server admins are horrible, agreed. I would not prevent them from running a modded baseoa though, it might be neccessary for server-side fixes or mods. Determining whether a .pk3 overwrites content of other .pk3s is not quite possible with the current system and also depends on your vfs setup.

Let them mod the stuff all they want in baseoa, just don't let them screw around with the stock pk3's .  That way, when derpy server repacks pak-whatever, they don't break the experience for others.   Force the server to either have the new content in a seperate pk3 or use a mod directory. 

Here's the fix for all of that: Clients should see they are asked to download pk3's that are part of the original distribution and NOT download them.   It would recognize this via the name.  This accomplishes two things: One, protects the copyright integrity of the stock pk3's (albeit just a bit, not a lot).  Two: It would leave intact all the original pk3's included with the game.   Herp/Derp server owners would only screw up their own servers by repacking their own pk3's. 

And yes, it has been done before.   RTCW did it, and I believe Quake 3 had it as well to protect their game assets.

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grey matter
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 02:10:26 AM »

[..] The engine handles duplicate asset names by including the one contained in the pk3 whose name is the highest numerical value.
That's a slight simplification of the algorithm, but basically how it works in layman's terms.

Let them mod the stuff all they want in baseoa, just don't let them screw around with the stock pk3's .  That way, when derpy server repacks pak-whatever, they don't break the experience for others.   Force the server to either have the new content in a seperate pk3 or use a mod directory.
That sounds a little contradictory at first glance. If you want to modify (add/edit files in) baseoa/, you need to either
  • repack the existing pk3 files
  • add a new pk3 file, with carefully chosen name
  • only use file extensions that work serverside with pure mode
It should be obvious why you should not repack the original files. As for serverside-only mods, they do not screw up clients since there are no downloads.
So the real problem is adding a new baseoa/*.pk3. Now if you want to add a map, you do not want it to be downloaded regardless of the map currently being played, so by the logic of the sv_pure system you have to put it into baseoa/. Since a pk3 is not restricted to being a certain kind of mod, e.g. only a map, adding someone-elses-map.pk3 might as well surprise you by including textures, shaders, playermodels and heck even gamecode that overrides the original content in baseoa/.

Now is that a problem? Not neccessarily with servers running sv_pure, since those tell the client which pk3 files to use. An offline client however uses all pk3 files and unpacked files/directories it can find in its VFS.

Here's the fix for all of that: Clients should see they are asked to download pk3's that are part of the original distribution and NOT download them.   It would recognize this via the name.  This accomplishes two things: One, protects the copyright integrity of the stock pk3's (albeit just a bit, not a lot).  Two: It would leave intact all the original pk3's included with the game.   Herp/Derp server owners would only screw up their own servers by repacking their own pk3's. 

And yes, it has been done before.   RTCW did it, and I believe Quake 3 had it as well to protect their game assets.
With the current download logic, accepting a download might put a pk3 in baseoa/, thus screwing the client lateron. Again I do not think players will ever choose "DON'T DOWNLOAD" when their favourite but broken server asks them to download angelyss-nude.pk3.
If the server asks to download a file which conflicts with a file already present at the client, it will get a new name with its pure checksum appended, e.g. baseoa/pak6-patch088.c6e9e276.pk3.
Yes, id Quake 3 has a list of pk3 patterns ((baseq3|missionpack)/pak\d.pk3) and their pure checksums, but this does not prevent the problem of additional pk3 files in baseoa/baseq3.

Well, what to do? The problems are offline game play as well as servers stepping on each other's toes. So from the top of my head two solutions would be
  • Have an oa088-offline.dat, which contains the names/checksums of the stock pk3 files (instead of being hardwired into the versioned OA engine). If a client is not connected to any server, the engine would only load those, instead of all files. Problems: how does a player add maps on his own which he wants to play offline? How would (OA/map) development (or sv_pure being off) work?
  • Have a download cache for each server, using its ip:port. That way you could have e.g. ~/.cache/openarena/pk3/192.0.2.1/27960/baseoa/pak6-patch088.pk3 alongside with ~/.cache/openarena/pk3/2001:DB8:0:0:0:0:0:0/666/baseoa/angelyss-nude.pk3 (or 127.0.0.1/::1/loopback). Problems: Would require downloading the same files multiple times for multiple servers (or on changes of ip/port with home servers). You could get around that if the game recognizes pk3s by their (md5/sha1 etc., since the "pure" ones might be too weak) checksums instead of downloading them again (symlink, plain copy etc.), this would require a list of (all) downloaded pk3 files to work, though. Either way you might end up with a huge cache folder after a while. Plus it might confuse players even more if their q3config.cfg now exists for each server ip:port, unless you make the cache addition mess with the read-file-in-pk3/write-(un)pure-file-to-disk logic as well.
I think the last idea might actually work with some improvements, e.g. have a global cache which does not get used offline etc.
This whole problem is trickier than it seems Smiley
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