OpenArena Message Boards

Many of you may know me... others don't... so I'll let you guys know my situation...

since this 1st semester, i've been playing OA, and made my own server, the only Brazilian server on game, i'm pretty sure of it.... and since then not many players have been playing, or not many players are starting to play OA, specially in Brazil, i told to my friends about it, none of them got intersted, and i really can count how many players play in my server, and their nicknames.

So, i turned off the server, stopped playing OA... and i'm really sad about it, because i really wanna have my server full of players, not bots. My server has a website too, and no one even entered the forum....

Then, I'm getting tired because, OA is one of the best Linux games i've ever played...

So, what should I do, or, what would you do in my situation?

It's my fault since all last week i've had connection problems.
I really want to stir up development again myself but there is a dropping large amount of interest now.

QuakeLive?

I actually don't know anyone -exept you now- from south-america playing OA, so why noone enters your server is probably because of the bad ping (I live in europe so got a terrible ping). So just play on other servers and have fun! ;)

btw QL sucks

QL assets lack OA's character.

Jaypur has good taste in Linux games.

Argentina here. :D

I'm not having problems about any updates on OA, or any release... I just wanna have fun with ppl of my country, but they don't get intersted...

I know that my server is here in Brazil, so outsiders have high ping...

But how could i improve my server popularity?

soon with ubuntu 9.10, maybe i'll be back with a 24/7 server...

I found i think 2 Brazilian Servers...

http://dpmaster.deathmask.net/?game=openarena&server=189.2.93.34:27960

but i don't think it is really good enough, because it always runs other levels, and i hate to wait and download lvls... u_u

That's a shame. Long live OA!


+1

I dont think people are getting tired of OA/ lack of interest is the problem; I think there is a lack of OA promotion. We can't expect everyone that plays will stay forever and ever. We need fresh new blood. Perhaps more OpenArena VIDEO, a more appealling website, promotion to Graphic Art schools for rookie game programmers just to name a few. I've been playing for 2+ years and im still just as excited to play when I started. I found OA through a Wikipedia research my friend was doing on portable games; this is not the way this game should advertised. I think once promotion has increased, interest will increase as well which be a chain reaction to motivate people that develop the game.

2ndly, I believe once new players find and join the game, they are overwhelmed by good players and great players. Plus they're default settings do not help at all. They immediately think they cannot compete or play with the folks online because either everyone is too good or they are cheaters. There should be a basic tutorial/Help feature to explain things to new players such as Pings, Strafing and How Tos. The DEMO section can be utilized for training purposes, to visually show people what you need to do.

With both ideas combined, with having better promotion and training for new players, we can establish a good player base that will keep this game running.

i have OA on my pen drive, when i'm at the college's pc lab i start playing and ppl wtf???


X) so nice...

Following up Hitman's remarks, and his second paragraph in particular ...

Automatic skill rating may be the most interesting thing to me about QL (along with enough player base
to make it work).  Don't know whether or not this feature has a significant effect on QL's popularity
but it is emphasized as a virtue in the promotion. 

I recall a mini-thread with sago007 writing about newbs being overwhelmed, and the demos - newb maps -
newb servers ideas came up.  They're good ideas, but they take time. 

So we have these 'lemons' - servers and players that are too hot for newbs to handle.  Here's an idea
for 'lemonade':  probably mis-quoting from the movie "Fight Club" - "Your first homework assignment is
to go out and pick a fight with someone you don't know - and LOSE!". 

Now, not every good player will have the time (or courage :-)) to be a coach/punching bag, but it can be done -
I've been on both sides of that relationship. 

I'm no organizer, but it seems like this could work like a league setup, only instead of contests, organized
training/practice sessions are scheduled - particular times, servers, maps - and skilled players.  Clans do
this now for their own members - why not for the general public? 

Newbs will know that they'll get advice, training and practice in a receptive environment.  That'll
be more interesting to the new player than the usual "new server" or "opening in a clan" stuff we
see now, which is unfortunately 'the state of the art' for promotion.

The player base gets grown in an organic, non-corporate way, with real people rather than
soulless software providing the environment and guiding the new player.  Sounds better than QL to me,
and this is something that ID and the QL community *can't* do because they're *too big* (and they
lack 'character' :-)).

Personally I believe Stats should be up to the person running the server. I think individual stats will take the fun out of OA for a couple of reasons:

1) You will always be pushed to out-do yourself.

I am a player who like to play alot...not try and get my score up or whatever. Once and a while I do go all out to see how my own personal practice has gotten me along but most of the time...if any player knows me well, I goof around. This will affect not only my score....but other players stats as well.

2) A lot of people have bad days.

One thing I hate about QL is if you have a bad day or what not it effects your skill stats and it makes you appear weaker and others stronger.

3) Cheaters can benefit.

Do I need to say it? Recently we have seen an increase in Aimbotting etc.... standard stats will most likely increase this.

I do like a stats idea though...that maybe can be used for clan matches. Maybe the OA team can make general servers for clan matches one for NA, SA, and EU with auto stats. This might be interesting....and to tell you the truth...alot easier to organize clan matches  Like hitman said....there is a problem with newer players staying....but we mustn't forget about the veteran players. I think instead of random people making these clan leagues....maybe the OA team makes one?

A big problem with vet players who are in clans is lack of matches. We've seen many clans come and go, and many good players too. Each have their own unique reason....but more than not it was due to boredom and lack of interest due to lack of clan matches.

Maybe IT IS time to re-do this website and add some stuff for the loyal vet OA players and the clans as well. We all saw the OC_CL fall apart and go nowhere because it was run by some kid in his room with a bandana over his mouth. I think it's time the OA team looks at the loyal players as well as new players. Make the site more appealing and add a Clan League section that can be viewed by all...but only used by people who have registered a clan. Clans could then post team sites and matches, challenges, etc. It'd be much easier with those pre run servers too. And winning teams will be posted on a news feed or something.

As for the new blood....I agree with tutorials and demo vids on how to straffe etc...but i think to make a league to train them is a bit tricky. It comes down to is giving the newbs a chance to play. I see to many of them being disconnected because they dont know how to auto dl...BIG PROBLEM. I think tutorial videos of basic cmds (fov, sensitivity, mouseaccel, bind, etc) should be added into the demo sections as well. This will help new players to become familiar with their console and also introduce them to their cfg.

To fromhell's QL comment. Yes, QL does contribute...but it isn't too late nor will it ever be to bring OA to its fullest. I think one of the problems is the devs are listening to people who are tech savvy...but can't actually play the game as well as some players. Both must be listened to for patches to work. I remember a lot of people were mad about the updates since 7.1, and i don't think 8.1 hits a homerun either on some, not all, things. Maybe 9.0 should be tested by vet players to see what they like and dislike about it?

At anyrate I agree 100% with hitman that we need new promotion and I guess thats my feelings on the clan life etc in oa at the present time. VIVA LA OA!

I think that's the third topic where we discuss why OA is not popular. So I'll be short and straightforward:

• fromhell if you make the switch to e107 once you talked about, than I can make an OA theme for it (or for any other opensource CMS). The same goes for the SMF, I'll start it this week.
• I try to make the Q3 replacement textures so I can fully cover a Q3 map rather than going alphabetical. After I have a map ready I'll make a video comparing the Q3 and OA textures. Hopefully it will not only draw some interest from the free software community but also some from the Q3 community because it will be a higher resolution pack compared to Q3.
  

That's why I frag 8)

But you're right, we need new players. Here in the netherlands there are enough ppl interrested (everyone who I tell, only if they know Q3 too they say it's too similar). The only problem is that most people don't ever hear about OA so they don't know it exists..

I agree that getting new people to play and helping them stay and improve is important, since as everyone has said new ppl will get discouraged by the constant butt kicking they get from experienced players who appear to be cheating to their eyes. On top of that some experienced players are pompous pricks who are not willing to teach others. However I think the best solution to train newbs is to have a board for video tutorials on this forum with the videos being hosted elsewhere, since for example demos will require a tutorial to view the tutorials :S. Videos are pretty straightforward and probably the best way to learn if the video is well done.

We can all contribute by FIRST developing by consensus the "curriculum" for the "video course" to see what areas should be taught (i.e. not only movement but basic strategy and team work tips as well). Then when the curriculum is ready people who are who are willing to contribute with one of the videos can take ownership of one of the curriculum categories and start creating the tutorial.

When the video is done it should be peer-reviewed by other experienced players making sure that it is clear and that it will not lead newbs into confusion but will show them the correct way to practice and improve. After the author makes the necessary corrections (if any) then the video is officially posted and the same process is repeated until the "course" is complete. After the course is done no one has to re-invent the wheel and can simply direct newbies to the video tutorials instead of explaining everything themselves from scratch.

Maybe one of our awesome OA mappers can make an official training map to use in the videos with rooms to practice circle jumps, strafe pads, Rocket Jumping, etc. If someone is willing to do this map this should be the first step. This map could later be introduced into the official release.

"Maybe one of our awesome OA mappers can make an official training map to use in the videos with rooms to practice circle jumps, strafe pads, Rocket Jumping, etc. If someone is willing to do this map this should be the first step. This map could later be introduced into the official release."

Great idea Airwolf! The problems here are easy to see and not that hard to fix. I think its more difficult to fix the veteran players problems because everyone has a different idea and want. The new players are new so whatever happens, happens. I personally loved the 7.0/7.1 physics and the mouse. It ran smooth and it was very solid. I feel the 8.1 slides around a bit and the mouse is a bit annoying at times. Also for the new release i HIGHLY suggest LOWERING AND MAKING THE WEAPONS MORE EQUAL. One problem why the new people leave is because the wepaons are so overpowered in this game that when the experienced players use them its so much easier to kill people. The newbs get discouraged and leave. The weapon I think is the most over powered is lg (my opinion) Everyone uses it and its such a quick kill. If you go to QL or Q3 the lg is much more balanced with other weapons.

Maybe there should be a board of players and developers to work together through email, beta tesing, and skypes or...something to make sure OA only gets better. Believe it or not OA is becoming more popular...the problem is getting new people to stay...and sadly veteran players to stay. Like i said in my video walkthrough for Cheers Server...i think this is the most servers OA has ever had up...but NO ONE PLAYS. I go on the server list and at times the most occupied server has 10 people in it...i click to see the players list and its 10 bots!

oaN's thinking team was a joke really ( Dream Phoenix) but i implore the devs...maybe its time to make a thinking team that helps promotion, the game itself, and most of all the players. The game itself doesn't need too much more work. Just some tweaks here and there (IMO) but now its time to promote this bad boy and think about the core players as well as new ones.

Just a FYI, OA didn't touched anything weapon/item-wise, regarding to ioq3, except the addition of Team Arena's weapons/items. And there're no plans to modify them, this is something which is outside of OA's goal. Check this:

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO

The rules of the project, sorry. :(

The LG is changed because of the delag code, OAX introduces some artificial lag to make up for it.

I might but I don't know of it's SMF-hooking capabilities. I'd probably use it only for the CMS, gallery and downloads anyway. My usual E107 changes is the removal of the 'download' button in the listings as I would have mirrors listed in the description of OA releases rather than be part of the download link.

The 1999 look for the site was fun for a while, but it's time to get real and go to the 'glossy' standard pioneered since Aqua ;(

I'm also thinking of having the site host 3rd party content too, but that's probably a bad idea since I would have to test and approve everything myself (to say like... keep copyrighted/unoriginal content off)

Also the reason why E107 feels like a graveyard is in the 'add download' feature since you're stuck to a tiny popup menu in the listing of e107_files/downloads/, unable to even upload a file from the admin panel or using an external link that doesn't grab file size. This makes adding downloads to the Crap House (http://leileilol.mancubus.net/leiware) feel cumbersome and unmotivating and I wish there was a better, faster way for that so I could open the scope for that site a bit more (like early Win9X games that are getting more lost every day thanks to casual crapware from Oberon Media).

The best servers IMO that are often filled with players for DM are:

Digichalk 0.8.1 - This server is unlagged so everyone has a shot
Ciggaweed - Surprisingly popular server

That's it really. All other servers are dead all the time. I'm not talking about CTF servers because I don't play CTF.

At this point, I really wouldn't bother putting up more servers unless you can offer an unlagged server with a good ping.

Following up to Wiiyamoto and others:

Good ideas, folks.  Keep'em coming. 

Here's some more crazy stuff to consider.

I should have made clear that while I think automatic skill rating in QL is very interesting,
I don't necessarily like it. 

The positive side of it is that there is an intent to keep the new player from getting overwhelmed, which it seems
we agree is a Good Thing(tm).  To accomplish this, the skill rating system steers players to servers
where other players of similar skill level are playing.  The business side of this is that a community
is something you can rent or sell.  See for example, Facebook and MySpace, recently sold for big money.
The bigger the QL community (because there are fewer early dropouts due to frustration),
the bigger the eventual price tag. 

An undesirable effect of the (soulless) software guidance method is the player only has other
players of the same skill level to learn from.  There's an assumption that experience will lead
to increased skill.  It does, but some skills can't be gained in play with others of the same skill
level.   In the ID system, the player who wants to progress still has to work up
the courage to pick a server beyond his or her skill level, and get beat up on.  Only some players
will do this.

Now, this effect is perhaps not undesirable for ID, as the idea is to have a large community, not necessarily a skilled community. 

I think those reading and posting here have a different vision for their community.


No new maps, demos etc. are necessary for what I'm suggesting, though they certainly would be
welcome.  An up to date set of links to existing demos for the basics would be a quick and easy way to get
there.  We have that sort of thing in multiple places on the forum and wiki.

No new servers are needed either.  If a clan has a server, and is having trouble getting opponent teams
for matches, use the time that would be used for the match to host a 'clinic' on the basics for anyone who
wants to attend.  Promoting this to get good attendance will be the challenge, but you only have to be able
to post and chat to promote the clinic.  No ninja mapping or demo video skills required.

Not everyone has the right kind of personality for this kind of stuff, but I offer this for the skilled player
who might wonder why he would waste his time on something as lame as hanging out with noobs he
could beat without ever switching from MG.  The player/instructor who for example, deliberately tells a student
the right and wrong ways to cover a corridor, then covers the corridor incorrectly while the student
successfully advances along it, then has the student try to cover the corridor correctly while he or others
attempt to advance along it  will get a new appreciation of mistakes and how and why they are made.  Same goes
for any number of basic skills and gameplay elements.  This experience will improve clan training sessions and matches. 
A clan can *grow* players rather than waiting for a player to appear to try out for an opening, or trying to poach a player
from another clan.

Same goes for pick-up DM, FFA, etc. players.  Want more opponents?  Make them, or leave it to chance,
which seems to be the current method for getting new blood.

I think this is the problem with us. We all have a good ideas on what we think would be good to have in the game but i dont see any ideas on how to get the OpenArena name out to the masses. We need promotion! Not just more game tweaks and additions to make the gameplay better. Promotion brings players in, Promotion fills up servers, Promotion motivates developers to develop and add those tweaks we all would like to see. No one wants to invest their free time into something that no one is going to use.

Lets come up with ideas on how to Promote this game. Otherwise, everything else is just a waste of time. I personally think the main openarena page (www.openarena.ws) needs a huge face lift. Perhaps, if we can get some people, including myself, to do a rough draft of how the site would look, It would be a start. Then we can start marketing OA - b'cuz right now, if someone would come by, they would think this game is a joke by how it presented.

No offense to web designer. :D
------------------------------------------------
Love the new design to the OpenArena main website. Much more better and less of a eyesore.

Maybe someone can create ad banners for OA and ppl with websites, forums, blogs, etc can post them to lead some of their traffic to the OA website and have them try the game.

Hitman i agree 100% WE NEED PROMOTION!!!! The website I think should get a modern, glossy, sexy, inviting look to it. And I do not agree that it should be a clans job to teach people how to play. Clans were made for already experienced players to compete against each other with other clans and make friends within your clan. Some clans have different approaches to recruiting, like V when it was first formed invited alot of new players (i was one of them) and they taught me as I played with the team and other players. To get a "clinic" going i think is going a bit over board. First of all, new players won't know what the difference is between a clinic and server, they barely talk and most don't even know how to.

I believe these following steps will help OA improve. It may not be instant, but it is sure as hell a great start to making this a reputable FPS amongst other ones that aren't free.

1) Promotion is key! Up until now all promotion was left up to the players. Youtube has many videos of Open Arena consisting everything from reviews to matches to frag videos to whacky nonsensical videos. This is great that the players want to make videos and help OA, but who is searching for Open Arena in youtube if it isnt known. ONLY PLAYERS! It's time for the Devs and makers of this game to help along with the promotion. You guys control the site, you control the games, you control the future of this game! The website must be redone...and maybe an official OpenArena Youtube channel? maybe a twitter? ALl of this can help!

2) The web site! An updated website with more features is always a good start for better promotion. It's time to get modern and get new faces familiar with the game and what its about. Maybe on the homepage have a video that explains the goal of OpenArena, some features of the game, and how players can benefit from playing it etc.

3) CLAN LEAGUE!!! I AM in a clan so I'll be "fighting" i guess for a central clan league on the site. With a central clan league on the OFFICIAL OA site, it will be 1000x's easier to organize matches and get in touch. Right now there are probably 20 different pseudo clan league sites floating around from people who got it hyped up, but bailed and didnt deliver at all. Promotion and new players helps OA keep current, but it is also important to keep clans and veteran players in OA as well. It is too hard to organize matches and maybe this will help. The OA dev team can also host tourneys and other events this way! Another must if this is to happen is a full set list on the page of GMT time zones. It gets confusing when a NA team wants to play a EU team.

4) Tutorial videos! Either pack them in the game or post them on the redone site. These will help new players understand how to play. Here is a list of videos to make:

-Movement (straffing etc)
-Gametypes (a walkthrough of the different gamemodes)
-AutoDownload (how to turn it on and why is it important)
-Console and Cmds (Basic cmds and what the console is used for)
-Key cmds ( how to vote and talk)
-Weapons (a walkthrough of the different weapons and what they do)
-Weapons advanced ( a demo of rocket jumping, plasma jump, and other neat tricks)

5) A basic training map! THIS WAS AIRWOLF's IDEA and i LOVE it! MAybe the map makers for oa can make a diverse training map for new players to practice on! THe videos can be demo'd on this map and the map can be available for download off the oa site.


That's pretty much my take on the situation. I have alot more ideas, but we all must keep in mind this is a free game and the budget (i could imagine) isn't as great as Quake's. D: I'm very happy this topic came up because it is the first step of the veteran players talking to the devs about how to help open arena. And i love the ideas so far!

What does everyone think of these ideas?

Personally, I wouldn't ask the developers of the game to do more than what they are doing now. It already taxing enough doing what they do; fixing glitches, adding features, fixing/create models, maps and textures. etc. Perhaps the veterans can step up and do their part if they want the game to succeed. I'm looking to the veterans actually to promote Openarena, come up with a decent draft for the OA site, to make gameplay videoes, set up ADs of OA throughout the net. Since we play the endlessly, we, vets, are the best public sponsors. Question is, who is willing to do the work?

That is where a board of vets and devs will be essential. We as veterans only do things in game. The devs have control outside and inside. If we can all get a private chat going between interested vets and the devs. I think we can all come up with a very solid promotional tool. But to rely only on the vets is a losing battle. Just as you said, who is willing to do ALL the work. We need a team that is picked by the devs to come up with ideas and present them to the devs so they can work on the site and game etc. The vets will only go so far alone...its time to work together if this new promotion will succeed.

The rules of the project could be flexible : OA could have separate and selectable modes ( VQ3 -> Vanilla Quake 3 ; VQL -> Vanilla Quake Live like LG damage at range - 5 hp for high range , 6 hp for mid range , 7 hp for low range - , RG damage scaled at 80 hp , RL speed 1000 ups ... FreezeTag , Instagib , CA , .................. )

I could help with videos but not right now, my current PC sucks and I have a big economical priority right now so I won't be getting a new one until another month and a half or two, so I can't deliver HQ in the meantime (which we need). For the moment being I can only help with reviewing other videos or helping with the logistics of it.

I think it would be cool to have a streaming HD video at the homepage with gameplay with ALL bells and whistles turned on like the nexuiz page. That could make the game more appealing to others when they first come in.

BTW since autodownload is an issue how about making the default a little different, instead of shutting off download alltogether make the GUI display a dialog asking if the stuff should be downloaded off of that server?

There have been two or three attempts to make a site but were abandoned because all the responsibility fell on one person. I think we should open a new topic or section, and do a brainstorm there how we can improve the site, people can made some art for the new site (baners, images, icons), discuss about the sections it should been ,do a sitemap or discuss about the layout of the site, main page, colour scheme ... , then when there is enought stuffs we can combine it.

An official youtube chanel seems a good idea.

It will not work IMHO simply because promotion is a mechanism working with commercial and large scale distribuited products.

Oa is not a commercial game : even if you will work hard for promoting the game and you will make many players coming , they simply will stop playing and will wipe the game from their computers if they will not find what they'd expect.

I found by accident a post in a forum few days ago where they described the decline of UrT 3.0 ( all servers empty and lately all of them disappearing ) ... with the version 4.0 the interest was renewed ( because it did not require a valid Q3 installation anymore and because of the great improvements in the gameplay ) ... now you rarely will find an empty UrT 4.1 server.

So the best thing to do is to make the game attractive.

"Promoting the game" vs getting more players ...

Following up on Falkland's comment "make the game attractive", and expanding a little on
what I posted a few days ago, make the *community* attractive.  Promote community
activity.  Start small and build, with say, "Noob night" (don't call it that! :-)) on an existing
server, 

Cool ideas have been posted, but they require skills, people and time that - well, if we
had those skills, people and time those cool ideas would already be implemented.  They're
"start big" ideas.

If you can chat (in-game,IRC,whatever) and post on forums you have skills sufficient to
1) ask for and get time on an existing server 2) recruit players to be present at that time to
assist the newcomers 3) recruit newcomers (also known as 'raw meat' :-)). 

To get things rolling, I'll be a player (or raw meat!).  You get a server and a time, tell me
and I'll try to be there.  I'm USA, Central TIme zone (GMT-5), 19:00-22:00 weekdays, weekends are open. 

I'll let you start the new topic here. Pick a Subject: more exciting than "Community activity". :-)

Then what do you say about this? :D

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3153.0

The work on the site has already started. Let's wait with further ideas until it is finished.

Well I say go for it, wether people will go for videos, demos or personal training to teach others I believe an official training map or maps where you can teach all important things is a must. If OA will include training videos on the official release, why should those videos be made with a friggin Q3 map? We want a beautiful training map with a huge OA logo on it :D. A big map with specialized training rooms is always cool, sort of like tr1ckhouse-beta3 or xcm_tricks2 (Doesn't have to be so advanced in skill level though, if they want to get advanced they can use the Q3 maps, it's supposed to be for newbs).

Things like simple CJs and RJs don't require that much practice, and a newb can execute them very quickly and feel good about himself and will give him hunger for more! Even simple bunny hopping can be learned quickly, you won't make it through a strafe pad course, but you will move faster than regular running in no time.

You could also have specialized rooms for training with each weapon or item:
- A small to mid sized room with a bot-spitting vortex for shotgun and RL.
- A room with curved and straight corridors and bot-spitting vortexes for PG.
- A large room with a bulls-eye moving from left to right for RG (a certain distance must be FORCED or the newb will walk closer to the bulls-eye). A moving bot-spitting vortex in the sky would also work and be very much fun.
- A mid sized room with a bulls-eye moving from left to right for MG and LG (again forced distance and vortex instead of bulls-eye for extra fun).
- A small room with a gun, a Mega Health, a red armor, a yellow armor, a 50+ and a 25+ health so u can pick them up and practice timing them.

Stuff like that :D

"bot spitting vortex" ... YEAH!

Maybe this week i'll be back with the server... let's see what happen!

yup its on, and i found out that ppl always play liek.... 15 minutes... lol

There're many ways to reunite the people who play in your server. What about a forum/web or a MSN group? :D

http://oabr.no-ip.org


lol...


but i'll think on a smarter way to get ppl together.... i know some ppl of ubuntu games ;)

hey, long time :D

Its nice to see ppl still interested in oa

Ive not been around coz (shame on me) i switched to Quake Live since it came out for linux. I think I posted my reasons a million times on this forum, so I wont bore you with the details...

Im looking forward for new versions of oa tho ;)
I'll sure come back some day so fear me! :D

keep up the work!

I'm a link, click me... (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3374.0)

I liked the new blue feel of the game and all the new icons and stuff :D

I didnt played new maps tho... Im really looking forward to it ;)

post screens of the new version plz...

i'm a little bit out of open arena rite now :(

Here you'll find some screens of the new maps: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3377.0

(Although not all of them are the current dev versions, for these, head on to the Maps forum)

And here's 0.8.5, for download: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3374.0