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Author Topic: CTF MAP: Compromise  (Read 41792 times)
cosmo
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« on: October 09, 2007, 11:10:56 AM »

Created a new CTF map.
This is the first beta release for testing general gameplay.
http://cosmo.spaceboyz.net/openarena/ctf_compromise_b1.pk3 (Save target as...)

Things I already know:
Textures need to be edited and fixed in the area of the blue base.
There are a few sparkles in that area as well. It seems to me GtkRadiant messes up brushes when cloning them.
Probably too many powerups included.
Foghull should work now but it's possible to remove the fog completly. I'm not sure if it adds to the mood of the map or if it is just annoying.
If you start the map with many bots already in there might be a first spawn issue (I added only one team_playerstart so everyone spawns at the same spot initially but that is not a problem because there are several team_respawns).
I'm not sure about the weapon/item placement. Suggestions are welcome.

The map misses details I will be adding when I'm satisfied how it plays.
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 11:24:13 AM »

Things I already know:
Textures need to be edited and fixed in the area of the blue base.
There are a few sparkles in that area as well. It seems to me GtkRadiant messes up brushes when cloning them.

You r right, but the map its ok. Just correct those aspects.

Probably too many powerups included.
nah.. its ok in my opinion

Foghull should work now but it's possible to remove the fog completly. I'm not sure if it adds to the mood of the map or if it is just annoying.

Actually I like the fog in the map, it mades the game interesting. U should not remove the fog

If you start the map with many bots already in there might be a first spawn issue (I added only one team_playerstart so everyone spawns at the same spot initially but that is not a problem because there are several team_respawns).
I'm not sure about the weapon/item placement. Suggestions are welcome.

Ok, no bots needed, there are other maps that work great without bots, but, anyway, there is still the chance to put at least 4 bots, 2 for each team.

The weapon/item placement seems to be fine to <<ME>>
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 12:59:02 PM »

I'd say you need to do some clipping, it is possible to rocket jump out of the map using the quad.
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pulchr
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 04:30:10 PM »

is it not possible to remove the fog by different cvars? if so i think you should remove the fog cause it'll make the gaming "unfair" for people that play with fog.

note: i'm not sure how to remove the fog but i think it's possible

haven't tried the map yet though - so i can't tell yet. will try tomorrow Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 05:27:12 PM »

I like the fog, q3 had a thick fog map that I liked, i'm not against the fog.
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 04:36:31 AM »

i remember that i liked the small map that had a kind of orange fog. i think it was a small 1on1 map with uriel.
you had to listen to the sound of footsteps to know where he was Smiley
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steauengeglase
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 09:34:43 AM »

I played with it last night, I like it.

I do agree with the complaints about clipping and on the weapons side I'd remove one of the plasma guns; the two are a little close.

Oh and the map was Q3Tourney5 (yes, I was compelled to find out; things like that bug me).
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 09:42:19 AM by steauengeglase » Logged
pulchr
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 11:37:56 AM »

tried it out for some minutes and i do like the map.
just something that i felt when i ran around - i would prefer if the map had red and blue textures around the bases so i knew where i was and where to go. i think it helps new players and i think it also could need a little more color.

but i think it looks great so far!
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 11:54:18 AM »

Another issue that should be worked out is the texture size of ancient_bricks2, you are using the same texture throughout the map (which is fine) but on varying patch-meshes and brushes the texture is sized differently when the bricks should have a consistent size throughout the level.
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cosmo
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 05:00:35 PM »

Thank you guys.

I need all your hints to improve the map.

So here is the new version:
http://cosmo.spaceboyz.net/openarena/ctf_compromise_b3.pk3 (Save link as...)

Fixes and changes were made:
Textures -
thanks dmn_clown, I made a new texture and replaced ancient_bricks2.
I added more colors to each base and changed shaders. There shouldn't be a scaled up version of any texture right now. The alignment is done as well. (correct me if you find issues)

Items -
Quad and Regeneration is gone and there is only one Battlesuit anymore. I added a Red Armor (in place of Quad) and another Yellow Armor.
@steauengeglase, you think you can go too fast from lightning gun to plasma? I didn't encounter problems with this and lightning gun is weak in this map because of the long ranges. Btw: The area where mega health and plasma are located is not heavily frequented as I observed during online play.

The 'windows' to every base have been enlarged a little bit so it's easier to jump through. Clipping has been done to cover some pillars but NOT the sky. It's still possible to rocket-jump out of the map (but without quad it shouldn't occur that often). I will clip the sky only in final version. I need to change some of the brushes first.

There are more playerstarts Wink
And I will keep the fog in.
Bots play better now.

What's missing? More details and decals, some music and sound effects.
I would be glad if somebody is in the mood to think about sound and music. Would even better if there is anybody willing to create some.

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cosmo
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 05:03:48 PM »

Ah, and of course I need to add some info_location entities to name areas.
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steauengeglase
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 09:24:00 PM »

I like the weapons balance.

I did find one thing though. Near the flag, when you go up the stairs behind it and cross over the bridge there is a ledge. I tried rocket jumping up to it and fell off the map into the walls.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 09:32:48 PM by steauengeglase » Logged
cosmo
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 11:14:29 AM »

Okay, thanks again.

The sky is clipped now.
I release the map (GPL included):
http://cosmo.spaceboyz.net/openarena/ctf_compromise.pk3 (Save link as...)

I hope you enjoy. Wink
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2007, 03:17:48 PM »

Where is the source for your multi-layered textures?
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cosmo
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2007, 04:19:30 PM »

What do you mean with source?
The textures are included in the pk3 file. I didn't want to put them into the zip I used for the radiant map file.

Textures are done by playing with the graphics editing program of your choice. (That's why the textures are not perfect.)
I just saved them as they are (jpg) because I knew already for what I would need them. There is no better resolution available. Sorry.

I thought about going out taking the camera with me to get some high quality / photorealistic textures. Then it came to my mind OA is no realism shooter and I'm not going for the touch of it. Keeping it colourful and arcade-like. Wink

(It's so hard to find useful GPL textures. - same goes for sound effects and all other media)
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2007, 07:43:22 PM »

What do you mean with source?

We define the source of multi-layered textures as the .xcf, .psd, .psp, .px (depending on which program you use to create them) of the texture that includes the individual layers before they are merged.  If your texture creation includes multiple layers you should save it as whatever format your image editor uses for saving layered images and include that as source, though in a separate zip file to save bandwidth.

Quote
Textures are done by playing with the graphics editing program of your choice. (That's why the textures are not perfect.)
I just saved them as they are (jpg) because I knew already for what I would need them. There is no better resolution available. Sorry.

I'm not too worried about resolution, just about including source files so we can stay consistent in our definition of what source is for the textures.
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cosmo
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2007, 01:50:07 AM »

Quote
I'm not too worried about resolution, just about including source files so we can stay consistent in our definition of what source is for the textures.

You should put that definition somewhere in the wiki. I didn't know but I understand.

I'm always working with many layers and I'm discarding them often (nature of playing around). It gets pretty nasty when I would keep everything. If you would do the same with you sourcecode (as far as I think about my own coding projects) most of the code would be commented out. Usually you delete old code when you wrote it in a better way. Same goes for textures.

I created 'ancient_bricks2' you already mentioned before with different tools. I used a vector drawing program to get about 10 shapes, copied them into my painting program (with every 'stone' being a seperate layer), added about 5 - 7 filters per stone, rotated and moved them into position and did some fine tuning. Then I had to do the texture seamless which was impossible if everything stayed as layer. I had to merge down the whole thing, adding more shapes, doing everything all over again and again.

I don't know when I should have saved everything as a multilayered source file.
For the rest of the textures it's just a vectordrawing covered by some randomness and an alpha channel. I wouldn't recommend to keep 'source' files of everything especially when it's so easy to recreate.
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2007, 03:25:40 PM »

I don't know when I should have saved everything as a multilayered source file.

Before all of the layers were merged to make the texture seamless or just before your final merging.  Most of our source-textures were saved just before being made seamless and may have had a few effects added after being merged like changing contrast, hue, etc. which isn't a big deal.
 
Quote
For the rest of the textures it's just a vectordrawing covered by some randomness and an alpha channel. I wouldn't recommend to keep 'source' files of everything especially when it's so easy to recreate.

Single layer images act as their own source.
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cosmo
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2007, 12:13:33 AM »

Alright. I keep that in mind.
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 01:37:13 PM »

btw - where is the map file for this?  It doesn't seem to be included in the pk3.
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cosmo
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 03:50:30 PM »

no, map file and other sources are hosted in a seperate file. I don't think source should be zipped in pk3.
http://oa.spaceboyz.net/
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2007, 04:11:01 PM »

Ahh, you should add a line to your readme's that explains where the source can be found.
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2007, 10:09:31 PM »

cosmo is my hero Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2008, 08:00:23 PM »

Yessa yessa map looks like very much fun to be had with the fragging and the capturing and the fogginess... Mine are looking more dated.
BTW I used Radiant for mine, haven't mapped for 4 years. Might have to get back into it.

Anyone ever play Pete Parisi's Meatpacks in Q3?
Someone should contact Q3Mappers to release their maps for OA. I have a huge collection but obviously won't alter anyone else's work.
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2008, 10:37:50 PM »

Yessa yessa map looks like very much fun to be had with the fragging and the capturing and the fogginess... Mine are looking more dated.
BTW I used Radiant for mine, haven't mapped for 4 years. Might have to get back into it.

Anyone ever play Pete Parisi's Meatpacks in Q3?
Someone should contact Q3Mappers to release their maps for OA. I have a huge collection but obviously won't alter anyone else's work.
Would very much doubt that Pete would release his maps under a GPL since they textures he uses are embedded in commercial games, he is a professional game-designer after all. Just to remind you, that if you alter work that someone else has released, make sure that the license allows for alteration, pay attention to if it's GPL, or not.

You can always ask around on old Quake 3 forums, send e-mails to designers e.t.c and simply hope for the best. Chances are that you will waste much of your time though.
Or you can look in to start your mapping again and create something inspired from multiple sources, that way you will have no problem releasing your working under GPL licenses considering you obey the license.
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