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Author Topic: community ban list?  (Read 37377 times)
Super Retardo
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Not the brightest bulb on the strand...


« on: July 31, 2008, 12:23:39 AM »

Just a thought...

Today as I was messing with my server's configuration before I decide on whether to go live with it full-time, some asshole aimbotter/speedhacker showed up...i booted him--killed my server.  Who the fuck plays on somebody elses server just to hack against bots?

ANYWHOOOOOOOO.....

I had an idea...

Can we come up with a community Ban-List?  List all the hackers and douchebags it. (generally just assholes who make the game unenjoyable for others)

Just a thought, i know its not THE answer to everyone's problems....but it might help out the situation.
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Gerbil
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 12:29:46 AM »

yes, if the admins could find players IP addresses and post them up here for other admins that could be a good idea. I have not noticed any hackers, but hey. I wouldn't make the ban permanent though, but having their IP addresses up here would be able to give other admins a heads up.
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Super Retardo
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Not the brightest bulb on the strand...


« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 12:52:04 AM »

yeah...i couldnt say for sure if this guy was aimbotting...he might have just had that good of aim

but the way he gained the extra bunny-hop speed from a STAND STILL...and how his ping would fluctuate by 20-30ms in a firefight...
this dude had to be speedhacking...which actually can be done in your own gateway/router by programming it to drop certain packets. 

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CFQ
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 10:35:49 AM »

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fromhell
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 04:53:53 PM »

Why would I want to run a ban list?
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Super Retardo
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Not the brightest bulb on the strand...


« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 06:03:34 PM »

simple...since theres not currently any anti-cheat measures other than requiring pure clients...
the talk about cheating came up with the rediculous guidlines for OA comps being all running under linux....

simple solution...get tough on cheating...kick first...ask questions later...

it makes it very clear to Newbs that cheating isnt tolerated
and by occasionally mistaking damn-good and clean players as h4xors, admins are letting the newbs know that there is somebody out there looking out for them, that the best do come under suspicion, and that there is no reason to resort to cheating just to stop the pure pwn3ge that can go on...

my case and point...

take any newb, give them a copy of ET, put them on a server with several seasoned pros at it....let them build up their frustrations

then show them the PBBans and PunksBusted lists...they  will see the almost 500% difference in bans for ET over other games....and assume that cheating is common in ET, and that cheating is so common because its FREE--much the same with OA

Plus...if youre that good that you get banned for cheating..consider it compliment to your skills...find out who did the banning and plead your case...dont be a whiny little candyass...

theres no 4th amendment rights in gaming...screw it...if you're an admin, your cop, judge, jury, and goddamn executioner...and its a game..you can raise people from the dead.....
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Gerbil
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 11:48:26 PM »

but the way he gained the extra bunny-hop speed from a STAND STILL...and how his ping would fluctuate by 20-30ms in a firefight...
its called circle jumping and about the ping, that means nothing.
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Quote from: sploosh
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Gerbil
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 11:52:05 PM »

When playing against this such kind of guys ( speedhackers ) I notice some strange fluctuations on my lagometer : when I'm engaged in a firefight , I can see clearly incoming packets' number decreasing instead of increasing ... like that guys actually is "sucking" packets from server against other players.

And when the speedhacker leaves the game or simply shutdowns his speedhack , suddenly I see a peak of incoming packets on my lagometer ( and on my network monitor ) and my gameplay returns fluid as when I joined.
this means absolutely nothing. guess what, if your on a crap box, when you get in heated action, expect lag. When there is a large number of players in the game, expect more lag.

then show them the PBBans and PunksBusted lists...they  will see the almost 500% difference in bans for ET over other games....and assume that cheating is common in ET, and that cheating is so common because its FREE--much the same with OA
what hackers on oa? openarena isnt nearly developed enough to have a hacker problem. All the aimbots are playing cs1.6 lols


my overall sympathies towards you people's claims towards hackers is to stop being overly suspicious and accept that your a newb.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 11:54:49 PM by Gerbil » Logged

Quote from: sploosh
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 09:53:48 AM »

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Gerbil
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 10:22:30 AM »

A server admin could set a download - and an upload too - UDP bandwidth of max 25/30 KB/sec for each connection ( easy to do in a linux server with wondershaper or other script ; this is an example ... I dont' know if it could be a correct value : it could be the max bandwidth needed when com_maxfps is 125 ) : I think that pings of many (*?good?*) players will start increasing higher and higher until they will be disconnected.
In what way is this relevant to speedhacking?

When playing against this such kind of guys ( speedhackers ) I notice some strange fluctuations on my lagometer : when I'm engaged in a firefight , I can see clearly incoming packets' number decreasing instead of increasing ... like that guys actually is "sucking" packets from server against other players.
Speedhacking does absolutely nothing to effect your lagometer, so you using false methods to accuse someone of hacking. As I said before, if your on a crap box, expect firefights to effect your lagometer. If the admin is downloading/uploading everyone's pings will increase, but this hardly means someone is hacking.

Don't get kick/ban happy if you don't know what your doing.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 10:27:21 AM by Gerbil » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 02:43:10 PM »

Quote
blablablablabla cheating blablablabla

No single week passes without somebody, here or in game, accusing somebody else of cheating. "But that joke isn't funny anymoooore". Now it's getting to the point where some feature to ban people from servers is being requested. And all with the maximum care: "kick first, ask questions later". Are you out of your freaking mind? Care to watch a couple of videos so you can learn how well people can play? Or just join some 1vs1 server and educate yourself.

Jeeeeez
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SILVERFOX
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 07:18:57 PM »

Take the Ouch, time heals all wounds . PLAY PLAY PLay!!.
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 08:55:01 AM »

Oh yes please, ban and arbitrary abuse...
Lists do work with spam and annoyances because most people agree on what is an annoyance.
Banning players is only revelant for server admins, and it's already a feature. Who to ban, who to kick, well it's up to each opinion.
Fucking up servers (flood etc) has to be dealt by a technical way.

Nothing wrong with suggesting some ideas, but what I often hear here on cheat prevention tends to disgust me a bit.
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Gerbil
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 10:26:51 AM »

Nothing wrong with suggesting some ideas, but what I often hear here on cheat prevention tends to disgust me a bit.
quoted for truth
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Quote from: sploosh
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CFQ
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 01:09:43 PM »

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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 03:08:45 AM »

Could you explain a bit more ? Smiley

I think I'd have the same opinion, I prefer robust by design stuff, than having to set up a police.
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 03:18:30 PM »

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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 07:11:34 AM »

You talk about one way to cheat with packets, how can we talk about robustness with any internet application which has to send packet at a particular rate ?
That just means Internet isn't robust by design, not the game.
Some guys just ignore this fact and tend to think "we need a trusted solution !", yay, make a trusted one and it'll be cracked, and if not, it's because your application became trusted to a point it became unusable.

The solution is to get your application being open, customizable, accessible, full of features (that's why noghost can be good), and discuss standards.
WTF if some guys come on it and want to fuck up the thing ? It's not different than scriptkiddies willing to flood some apache web server, the problem is with their manhood, not with Apache Wink
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2008, 08:36:22 AM »

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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 08:14:28 AM »

Well, I'm aware of how encryption works, it does because of its principle : mathematics overcome technological limits, so it's secure because CPU ressources aren't enough to break it. Heard about grid computing and supercalculators used to break keys ?
Security is only about making things not accessible for common people.
But what the hell, when you play a game, you shouldn't need all that secure shit.
We're not developping OpenBSD, we just want to play a game which doesn't crash. Then we just have some ways to meet good guys there, and deal with bad guys in another way than setting a chipset on their neck.
Why would you want to do that when there is enough guys who with you like to play ? In worse case you just have to leave the server, in best case you explain the cheater this is boring (and do it in a respectful way) and he'll listen to you. Cheating is a lack of maturity, nothing else.
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2008, 10:48:15 AM »

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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 03:23:54 PM »

Quote
the "lack of maturity" guys MUST understand that they're not welcome BEFORE their lack of maturity becoming something else.
I'm not sure you got the logic,

Develop some trivial protection, then it's cracked.
Then develop some punkbuster code, then it's bypassed too (dunno at which point it has been on Q3, and which drawbacks and complication it brought)
Then develop some trusted-dunnowhat, then take the risk to see it bypassed again.

Either you spend your time developing some punkbuster-trusted-dunnowhat, either you just live with the few cheaters there is.
IMO it would be more useful to write a how to deal with cheaters ingame, and spend the rest of the time you spared improving the game in itself.
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« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2008, 04:50:19 PM »

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Cacatoes
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2008, 05:23:11 PM »

Why posting if not to convince ? Wink

If my opinion makes sense then that's fine ...
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2008, 06:02:07 PM »

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