My first map - Bunker

[allanlw]

This is my first map - Bunker. It's a DM map. It is supposed to look something like an underground military bunker (but not quite). I've tried to optimize vis and my aas. I also tried to keep to good map making standards (good use of caulk and detail/structural brushes), it should run quite well. It's not done yet, as for the moment I'm using built in textures, and I would like to add my own (the built in ones are for the most part standing in for custom textures).

Other than the textures though I would like some recommendations/criticism/ideas. I know that there is one bug with the AI where they won't jump down into the area with the regen, and if anyone has any ideas, they would be greatly appreciated. Also when the bots are camping in the room that looks out onto the big main room, they only look down the hallway not into the main room. Also I know that the main room is pretty bland, so any ideas for spicing that up would be welcome.

The .pk3 and .map are attached.

[cosmo]

Nice to see another map developing.
The feedback seems to be sparse these days.

I like your main ideas on this map and a bunker themed area is great. I like the hidden/one way doors.

You're out for criticism so here are my thoughts:

• Typical for bunkers are long hallways but try to reduce that (more rooms) a bit as shooting in long hallways is lacking flexibility
• Texturing will be improved when adding more detailed brushes giving it a precise theme.
• Your hallways are too narrow. It's impossible to evade incoming rockets.
• The rises in one of the rooms are steep and too thin.
• Make the whole map more distinctive so players won't get lost easily. (eg less hallways)

That's what comes to my mind at the moment.
Try to post a screenshot when presenting your new map as it will encourage people to download and test it. If you don't think a screenshot will say nothing about your map then it's not ready for a first release.

Please think about your hallways. Wouldn't it be good to have each one in a unique design so everybody knows exactly where he is?

Keep the good work up. I'm looking forward to see the next version of this.

[allanlw]

Here is the next revision of Bunker. I tried to reduce the number of hallways/make them more distinct and added some details. I also tried to open up the whole place a little bit.

As I said before, the textures are not final, they are merely place holders.

[Neon_Knight]

Beside cosmo's thoughts, a comment I can give you on texturizing is to take a look on how maps are texturized by watching them in the editor. Map sources are at SVN. That's how I learn to texturize my maps.

Also, you should use light entities if you don't have shaders in your map which already give light to the map. (Like base_light or sky)

[allanlw]

armageddon_man, are you saying I should only use light entities or shaders, not both? because currently, I use a sky in some places and light entities in hallways.

Also I took a look at a few of the maps in SVN. I took a look at Fan and it seemed as though there where a lot of textured surfaces that weren't viewable by the player. Every tutorial I've read has said that is a bad thing.

Also, as I said before the textures that I'm using in my map right now are stand-ins, until I can finish making my own custom textures. (I'm working on that, made a few concrete ones. I'm going to try and not use any built in textures in my map (except common textures of course) to try and give it it's own look and feel.

A new release of the map will come soon with a screenshot, once I'm done making my textures.

[onykage]

hmmm,

well.

For your first attempt, not bad.  Not bad at all.

my thoughts are:

the rooms are either too large or cramped.  Which fits the theme, but when you say bunker, im thinking military.  It should be filled with loads of crates and boxes.

i think you need to turn off the "hide file extensions" option in windows explorer under the tools>options tab.  So you can pack the file with winzip and then rename the file *.pk3

You know,
your map reminds me of trick/challenge maps.  And it appears like you might have the creativity to build them.

Here is the object.

You create a map with a room or rooms with complex obstacles to make it "hard" but not impossible to get from one side of the room to the other.

I have several good examples but they are on another system atm so I cant upload them.

the basic idea is really simple.  You start at point A and the goal is to get to point B as fast as possible.  No idea is too crazy, and no obstacle is to obscure.  Just get from A to B any way possible, mostly with good balance and jumping skills.  You could incorporate some weapon skills as well such as rocket jumping and plasma climbing.  But the best ones just require movement.

Personally, my all time favorite is those kinds of maps.  You can even set score entities to give points to players for making specific obstacles and even do so with a specific time frame in mind.

Like I said, your bound only by your imagination.

As far as bunker goes, do something with the red armor room, and fill the other rooms with lots of boxes.

[Neon_Knight]

armageddon_man, are you saying I should only use light entities or shaders, not both? because currently, I use a sky in some places and light entities in hallways.

In your place, I'll start only using shaders, (for example, sky with its own lighting, and base_light spotlights) and later I'll add some light entities with low ratio wherever the placement is necessary. At least, that's how I managed to make some lightning at mckinleyish (though isn't the best way how I've implemented that)

Also I took a look at a few of the maps in SVN. I took a look at Fan and it seemed as though there where a lot of textured surfaces that weren't viewable by the player. Every tutorial I've read has said that is a bad thing.

Well, there are maps and maps, TBH I don't like Fan too much. I suggest you to take a look at oa_dm* maps, I think they're better for your case. Or, at least, pick the ones which comes with the style you want to put in your map, (I suggest oa_dm3 and oa_dm7) and see how they're texturized.

Also, as I said before the textures that I'm using in my map right now are stand-ins, until I can finish making my own custom textures. (I'm working on that, made a few concrete ones. I'm going to try and not use any built in textures in my map (except common textures of course) to try and give it it's own look and feel.

A new release of the map will come soon with a screenshot, once I'm done making my textures.

That's a nice thing. ^^

I'll be watching it, keep up the good work. ^^

P.S.: Mike, (Onykage) here you got someone who will like your crates.

[sago007]

oa_dm* maps are not that good for seeing good mapping. The brushwork is really bad in all of them. I don't know if dmn_clown repaired the oa_dm1-6 maps but I did very little about dm7.

Some would suggest making optimized brushwork from the beginning but if it takes too long and the map is rejected at an alpha stage anyway it has just been a waste of time. Good and optimized is not necessarily the same thing. 

I cannot currently see how fan is constructed since I cannot start GtkRadiant at the moment. I'll be surprised if it is possible to make that map too bad, since it is extremely open. When counting textured surfaces that cannot be seen by the user you should not count textures touching the void as they are about the only thing the compiler can remove/optimize for you.

If I remember correctly czest* maps are the most correctly and optimized maps in the svn.

[onykage]

Here is a tut im putting together.  It will get updated daily until I finish.  Maybe I can answer some questions or show you some tricks as you follow along.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2581.0

[Neon_Knight]

oa_dm* maps are not that good for seeing good mapping. The brushwork is really bad in all of them. I don't know if dmn_clown repaired the oa_dm1-6 maps but I did very little about dm7.

Some would suggest making optimized brushwork from the beginning but if it takes too long and the map is rejected at an alpha stage anyway it has just been a waste of time. Good and optimized is not necessarily the same thing. 

I cannot currently see how fan is constructed since I cannot start GtkRadiant at the moment. I'll be surprised if it is possible to make that map too bad, since it is extremely open. When counting textured surfaces that cannot be seen by the user you should not count textures touching the void as they are about the only thing the compiler can remove/optimize for you.

If I remember correctly czest* maps are the most correctly and optimized maps in the svn.

I recommended those maps for how they're texturized, not on how to texturize. I know good map designs are texturized only in its visible faces, and caulked in non-visible ones.

When I was retexturizing q3dm6ish, I was surprised on how that map has lots of errors, so I tried to fix them. I texturized galmevish/q3dm6ishv3 basically thinking on oasago2/ctf_inyard, for example. And LavaArena/blitzkrieg2 thinking on oa_dm3. So I took a look at those maps.

[allanlw]

About having it saved as .pk3.zip, I had it as a .pk3, but that wasn't listed under the allowed file types, so I couldn't upload it (or atleast I assumed i couldn't).

[onykage]

oh, ok.  yeah fromhell should fix that.

[feLiZ_naVidAD]

Hey i tried the map, and i liked it! specially the space room where you can get the regen

To make it playable id make the rooms and corridors bigger... the desing of the level is not bad just too narrow... to double the size of every brush in there should make it nicer (from my pov)

[steauengeglase]

I'm with feLiZ on the size issue. In DM there are a lot of spots where someone couldn't get around another. Fortunately I didn't really notice a spot where someone someone could dominate.

Also from a more thematic point you have all of these grates and pipes but nothing really ties them together (granted I didn't take anything apart, so I'm probably missing something).