Poll
Question: which fix do you want?
being able to shoot through the "grid"
remove railgun
replace with something else say nailgun,lightning, or hey maybe battlesuit
put a trap similar to tourney6ish_ctf
some sort of hazard on the platform(lava,slime,electricity)
remove platforms and have the railgun suspended
move the platforms behind that base and extend the whole map
moving platforms? (this idea needs work)

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Author Topic: oa_ctf4ish needs balance for campers  (Read 75027 times)
Thoushaltdie
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« on: May 26, 2010, 07:30:59 pm »

Ok so today I had a noob camping on oa_ctf4ish right where the railgun is on the platform above MY base. And as you know it is very hard and annoying, if at all possible  Angry, to kill someone camping up there.The problem is that from that perch they can push you off a ledge and kill you if you even try to get on a jumppad to get up to them. Your only hope is if they make a mistake and miss. I don't know how to make changes to maps myself but I was wondering if someone else could. What I think should be done is to add a trap similar to the floating red orb in tourney6ish_ctf. This would eliminate campers. If they camp there they get squished and if they camp elsewhere they will run out of ammo and are much easier to kill. Please leave any suggestions you have other then to try and kick them which has flaws as well, i.e. namechangers and if you can't get the votes.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 03:00:45 am »

Yo, welcome there, we already met on the servers Wink

Someone already had the idea of such trap there, but nobody tried to do it.
I'm not sure but namechangers problem could have been fixed with 0.8.5 version, also, it's easier to get positive results when calling the vote.

On that matter, the counter of votes acts weirdly, sometimes it counts my vote as a no while it is a yes, and vice versa. Sometimes the number of people voting yes decreases. Maybe it has been fixed in recent OAX versions, I didn't give a try.
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Bane
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 08:23:00 am »

Well your not the first to have this problem and you certainly wonít be the last until this map is changed. Anyway I have had what you describe above happen to me and there is a rocket jump that if you can do it can help. I have found by rocket jumping off the bounce pad just below the flag you can reach the platform. I myself  have managed to do this a couple of times but only while I was practicing and not in an actual game. Also another thing is if they donít notice you by taking the bounce pad up for just at the apex you can get a clean shot at them they are almost always dead certain on the platform. Anyway hope this helps and itís nice to see you on the forums welcome  Smiley
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sago007
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 09:47:51 am »

On that matter, the counter of votes acts weirdly, sometimes it counts my vote as a no while it is a yes, and vice versa. Sometimes the number of people voting yes decreases. Maybe it has been fixed in recent OAX versions, I didn't give a try.
I don't understand how your vote could count as a no... maybe it just looked that way.

The new vote system remembers who votes yes and no. If a player that voted yes leaves the game, joins the spectators or gets disconnected the counter will decrease by one. If a player that has already voted votes again the previous vote will be canceled.

There is a limit how often the clients are notified about the vote count, so you might see it skip a number occasionally or votes may cancel each other out.
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Gig
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 10:23:59 am »

About oa_ctf4ish, what's about making the grids on those two platforms penetrable by weapons? Weren't they so in the original q3ctf4? I'm not sure, I will check this later.

If you can shoot rockets through them, making the rockets explode on the borders, you should be able to kill the camper easily enough. Also machinegun could help, in this case.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 10:43:55 am »

@Sago, that may explain, I'll try to pay attention again. Does it really use bandwidth not to refresh the counts at every vote ? :-/ (I suppose some can have fun to vote yes-no-yes-no-yes-no ...)
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sago007
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 10:50:48 am »

Does it really use bandwidth not to refresh the counts at every vote ?
It is supposed to update at every vote, but I have discovered several delays in the system that was not present when off line.
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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 02:52:34 pm »

Okay, I checked in Quake III Arena: in Q3CTF4, bullets can pass through the "grids" of the platforms (as you can see in the first screenshot). You can make a rocket explode on the edge of the grid (as you can see in the second screenshot), and I suppose you should hurt the camper... and, with some luck, you could even get a direct hit... What do you think about it?
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 04:01:06 pm »

Should be a little modification for a skilled mapper Smiley
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2010, 04:10:14 pm »

You can also hit on the grid on oa_ctf4ish, but it doesn't do any damage.
Can you confirm it does on q3ctf4 ? Try with bots.
Anyway, some mapper may enlighten us Cheesy
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Gig
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 04:22:18 pm »

I can't say "get on that platform and stand there while I shoot at you" to a bot.... (read "update" below)

I tried to shoot through the grid in Q3CTF4, and the shots "pass": both shooting from up to down (in the first screenshot I posted before, the red point in my crossair is a rocket that i shoot through the grid) and from down to up (in the second screenshot, it explodes because I voluntarily aimed at the edge of the "solid" part of the platform). In OA_Q3CTF4, instead, the shots don't "pass": shooting from up to down, the rocket explodes, and shooting from down to up the rocket even disappears!

UPDATE - I tried with a bot in Q3A: I created a CTF game with me and a bot in the same team, I went on that platform, used "team orders" to make the bot "follow me" and then "camp here"; I jumped off the platform and he stayed there. I enabled \g_debugdamage, fired at the platform from below, the rocket exploded on the edge of "solid" and "transparent" parts of the platform and the bot took some damage. In conclusion: it works, I think we should do the same thing on the OpenArena map.

It seems to me that the "transparent" part is a little bigger in OA_CTF4ISH, so (after making the grids "weapon-transparent") it could be a bit more easy to direct hit the camper (if he's camping with railgun and aiming at the opposite side of the map, it's hard he could be able to dodge your attacks from below.). Obviously, if he's camping on the "solid" part, you may have problems at aiming at the right "corner" of the edge, if you don't see him... maybe we could also make the solid part more thin.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 04:52:45 pm by Gig » Logged

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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 05:20:21 pm »

OK first yes Bane if I "had" a rocket launcher I could jump up but if you died and respawn then you are f#cked. Cuz if you try to get one they can either kill you or push you into a pit. What I do is jump across the bottommost jumppads and machinegun them til they run out of health but then you have a choice try to capture the flag (i.e. play the game) or camp in return to stop them from camping. and if you capture the flag they will just go back up there. so its lose-lose.

Secound yes I know that you could clientkick them but whenever I try "/serverstatus" to get their number it closes oa. I have tried this on single player with the same result. but this is a map forum not techincal so moving on. Even if you try to kick them you sometimes just dont have enough ppl voting to kick them.

Third being able to shoot through the grid would be perfect! they could still snipe YOU through it but by respawning and shooting you could kill them soooo much faster then the way I do.(which gets me killed more often then I can damage them)
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Bane
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 05:57:09 pm »

Yeah I forgot about even being able to get a rocker launcher and how hellish that can be. Had a remind on this earlier today when I played on a server with this map and not only had a rail camper but a BFG one to.
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cheb
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2010, 10:45:23 pm »

An alternate idea: with each rail hit while you are up there, you get mined with one mine. Grin
So not only any camper would have a limited lifespan, but also multiple campers would be not possible as the first one to explode would kill them all Smiley

P.S. What's the maximum number of campers on one platform you've seen and fought? Me, three Rest In PEACE!
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 11:05:52 pm »

um well there are anti camping mods but i think that if you need the game to kill campers then there is something wrong with the map. I think that a trap or being able to shoot through the grid would balance it perfectly. or just getting rid of the railgun completly. I mean it is so abused on that map. and oa_ctf2. and to be fair I am one of the ppl who abuse it. I dont camp but I do shoot ppl when they are going off of the jump pads  Evil I think I was giving Bane a headache on oa_ctf2 earlier today even  Wink
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HelloKitty!
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2010, 05:46:37 am »

Just put lava or slime on the top surface. Easier than the other suggestions, and just as effective.
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Gig
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2010, 06:02:51 am »

Just put lava or slime on the top surface. Easier than the other suggestions, and just as effective.
Maybe slime... lava is too much!
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Bane
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2010, 11:07:29 am »

Or if you get killed by the camper 3 times on the third time you spawn with the all the power ups and 200 health and armor a rail gun and a BFG with unlimited ammo. That would get rid of them real quick lol. Evil

Yeah I am yet another victim of the Thoushaltide rails . Anyway nice rails dude especially the holy sh*t one I was so close yet so far  Sad
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 01:14:00 pm »

I dont think that lava is a good idea. if you want anyone who goes up there at all to die why not just remove the platform?
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2010, 01:21:55 pm »

I'd suggest water instead of lava so that it deserves its ctf4fish name.
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2010, 01:41:26 pm »

I did a short look at the map and found a metaclip texture.
Also there is a shadered texture on top.
Maybe it would help just to replacing the metaclip (dunno what it does) with a simple clip and replacing the other against a simple one.
Unfortunaly i am rare in time so i canīt make the changes in the next days...
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cheb
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2010, 03:13:09 pm »

Quote
Or if you get killed by the camper 3 times on the third time you spawn with the all the power ups and 200 health and armor a rail gun and a BFG with unlimited ammo.
In the air right above their head  Wink
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2010, 03:54:29 pm »

Why not change the "grid" in the middle of the platform to the same stuff that supended is made from? shots go right through the ground on that stage.  Smiley
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Gig
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2010, 05:34:02 pm »

Making the shots pass through the grid, like in the original Q3CTF4, is what I suggest from beginning... :-)
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
HelloKitty!
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2010, 05:45:50 am »

I dont think that lava is a good idea. if you want anyone who goes up there at all to die why not just remove the platform?
Lava doesn't kill you instantly, you have plenty of time to go up, grab the railgun, and go somewhere else Tongue
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