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Author Topic: Another ctf space map: platforms  (Read 22273 times)
ratix
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« on: January 27, 2007, 04:52:18 pm »

Hi again. I've been working on this map for some days now and I've become very tired of the nearly endless compiling; So I want to ask if some of you would care to test play this map with me or just give critique Smiley

map: http://www.vktv.no/~zero/stuff/openarena/maps/platforms_wip4.pk3
screenshot(s): http://www.vktv.no/~zero/stuff/openarena/maps/platforms_wip4.jpg
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tw3k
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2007, 05:33:28 pm »

Cheesy great i like it!
it'd be fun to play online to test it out a bit.
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ratix
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2007, 05:36:22 pm »

would you join me at kanal2.mine.nu then? Smiley
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erachude
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2007, 05:39:03 pm »

hi ratix. some feedback for you.

at first i thought the teleport to the enemy base looked like it could be a problem, because i thought people might just take cover and shoot people as they materialized and the game would grind to a halt. i spent a bit of time trying to find a spot where i could camp the exit point, but i couldn't find anywhere where i could see the exit point without being vulnerable to getting shot myself. the best spot was just beneath the stairs, but i could still be shot from the halfway point the player would be teleporting from, so i imagine a player could either have some covering fire from teammates or fire of a few rounds themselves just before they jumped in. i tried launching a few rockets at the spot beneath the stairs and then jumping in, a fraction of a second after i hit the deck, my rockets hit the target. if someone was camping under the stairs, jumped out when they heard the enemy land and got wiped out by the rockets the enemy had launched that would be such a cool kill.

so, considering that there's no good option for camping, virtually no cover and loads of people flying through the air i reckon this is going to be an insanely fast and fun map. keep up the good work.
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ratix
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2007, 07:15:15 pm »

hi ratix. some feedback for you.

at first i thought the teleport to the enemy base looked like it could be a problem, because i thought people might just take cover and shoot people as they materialized and the game would grind to a halt. i spent a bit of time trying to find a spot where i could camp the exit point, but i couldn't find anywhere where i could see the exit point without being vulnerable to getting shot myself. the best spot was just beneath the stairs, but i could still be shot from the halfway point the player would be teleporting from, so i imagine a player could either have some covering fire from teammates or fire of a few rounds themselves just before they jumped in. i tried launching a few rockets at the spot beneath the stairs and then jumping in, a fraction of a second after i hit the deck, my rockets hit the target. if someone was camping under the stairs, jumped out when they heard the enemy land and got wiped out by the rockets the enemy had launched that would be such a cool kill.

so, considering that there's no good option for camping, virtually no cover and loads of people flying through the air i reckon this is going to be an insanely fast and fun map. keep up the good work.
Thanks for the reveiw and thanks for the game; but, alas this map needs more than three people to be challenging. I noticed that railguns in this map is a little overkill, at least so easily available, especially if two guys fire at me the same time Wink
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Ryan450
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2007, 07:32:10 pm »

thats pretty sweet Smiley. You've captured the fun and speed of space maps pretty well. Although I would say in the middle platforms put in some jump pads to each base and in between the two middle ones and remove the teleportors. I like where you put the mega health, I'd suggest maybe putting in a +50 or even +100 armor on the other platform if your feeling generous.
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ratix
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2007, 07:48:51 pm »

thats pretty sweet Smiley. You've captured the fun and speed of space maps pretty well. Although I would say in the middle platforms put in some jump pads to each base and in between the two middle ones and remove the teleportors. I like where you put the mega health, I'd suggest maybe putting in a +50 or even +100 armor on the other platform if your feeling generous.

But i like the teleporters Wink
You can rocket jump between the two middle platforms and the fact that the teleporter is the only other way to the other teams base makes it a little chaotic.
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erachude
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2007, 07:52:48 pm »

Quote
You can rocket jump between the two middle platforms

lies, i tell you!

(just kidding, ratix can do it, but i haven't cracked it yet)
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ratix
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2007, 07:58:22 pm »

Quote
You can rocket jump between the two middle platforms

lies, i tell you!

(just kidding, ratix can do it, but i haven't cracked it yet)

Quote
ratix: maybe it's on the other side
ratix: :p
erachude: i'll take the long route
ratix: heh
ratix: I figured that
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ratix
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2007, 08:13:03 pm »

By the way; I noticed something funny: http://www.vktv.no/~zero/stuff/openarena/meep2.dm_68
« Last Edit: January 27, 2007, 08:33:29 pm by ratix » Logged
tw3k
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2007, 09:36:28 pm »

great map ratix, i think it is set to become a classic like ctf4. keep up the good work and polish it off.
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2007, 12:04:00 am »

It has some issues:

Code:
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 -2429.480713 560.802979
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity -787.505554 1927.026489 572.135620
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 2469.296387 560.660095
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 787.673035 -1842.512329 572.013977

Probably caused by the targeting of the non-existent target_position2 (Easy to fix just delete that key from one of the world_spawn brushes)
(It's something else)

- the nodrop texture needs to be on a separate brush from the trigger_hurt (Preferably just above the bottom of the map)
- it's too dark

[edit]

Also you might want to redo the platforms that you used a gazillion small brushes to build (The outer 2 middle platforms and the 4 jump pads) the jump pads only need to be one brush and the outer two platforms should be done the same way as the inner two platforms.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 01:39:02 am by dmn_clown » Logged

ratix
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2007, 02:41:27 pm »

It has some issues:

Code:
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 -2429.480713 560.802979
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity -787.505554 1927.026489 572.135620
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 2469.296387 560.660095
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 787.673035 -1842.512329 572.013977

Probably caused by the targeting of the non-existent target_position2 (Easy to fix just delete that key from one of the world_spawn brushes)
(It's something else)

I fixed the funky business with target_position2, but this problem still remains, can it have anything to do with the fact that the other functioning target_positions are faced at another direction than the push direction?

- the nodrop texture needs to be on a separate brush from the trigger_hurt (Preferably just above the bottom of the map)

Your nodrop chattering does not enlighten me because I can't get it to work, it just becomes a solid visible block that one can't fall into so one never reaches the trigger_hurt, if I place the brush right over the bottom of the map, it just  covers the space shader and weapons still drop on it. Your modification of czestmyr's ctf map behaves exactly the same, is it my compiler that's not functioning or have you really tested your theory?
edit: I could try with target_remove_powerups
- it's too dark

I don't think it is, besides it's space. I've added to the radius of some lights to please you anyway.

Also you might want to redo the platforms that you used a gazillion small brushes to build (The outer 2 middle platforms and the 4 jump pads) the jump pads only need to be one brush and the outer two platforms should be done the same way as the inner two platforms.

The platforms and the jump pads are redone as you requested, jump pads are now only one brush

I've removed one rail, and placed the another one on a platform that needs rocket/strafe jumping to reach so that the rail don't overpower the map.

new map: http://www.vktv.no/~zero/stuff/openarena/maps/baseoa/platforms_wip5.pk3
server: kanal2.mine.nu
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 03:44:08 pm by ratix » Logged
dmn_clown
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2007, 05:21:35 pm »

Quote
Your nodrop chattering does not enlighten me because I can't get it to work, it just becomes a solid visible block that one can't fall into so one never reaches the trigger_hurt, if I place the brush right over the bottom of the map, it just  covers the space shader and weapons still drop on it. Your modification of czestmyr's ctf map behaves exactly the same, is it my compiler that's not functioning or have you really tested your theory?
edit: I could try with target_remove_powerups

You need the common.shader for it to work properly.  0.6.0 didn't ship with one.  There is an updated one floating about in the graphics section that I uploaded yesterday.  Make a backup of pak0 and then add the mentioned shader to it for dev. purposes.  (Or you can always checkout the svn which has a few more textures and shaders).
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ratix
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2007, 06:05:56 pm »

You need the common.shader for it to work properly.  0.6.0 didn't ship with one.  There is an updated one floating about in the graphics section that I uploaded yesterday.  Make a backup of pak0 and then add the mentioned shader to it for dev. purposes.  (Or you can always checkout the svn which has a few more textures and shaders).
Ah. that explains my problems, thanks
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2007, 06:26:11 pm »

Still not sure what is causing the stack overflow, I am fairly certain that it is not because of the direction the target_positions are facing

Code:
462 weapon jump areas
calculating reachability...
 100.0
please wait while storing reachability...
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 -2467.330078 560.765747
found a trigger_push with velocity -787.476990 1926.910400 572.156311
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000383 2469.259521 560.666382
AAS_LinkEntity: stack overflow
found a trigger_push with velocity 787.705933 -1879.468384 571.990112
trigger_teleport model = "*1"
trigger_teleport model = "*3"
trigger_multiple model = "*4"
calculating clusters...

It has improved.  If I find the cause I'll let you know.

[edit]
Covering all of the interior platforms + steps (note: not the teleporters and jump pads) with a thin layer of clip removes the stack overflow problem (It also increases the aas size but it can be optimized to a much smaller size using the bspc flags -optimize -aasopt) but the bots don't see the teleporter that leads to the red base so they just end up standing around smoking cigarettes, looking cool, eating rockets and such.   You could make the teleporters vertical and use a launch ramp/jump pad to force the issue but that is up to you. 

It is an interesting level.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 09:33:44 pm by dmn_clown » Logged

ratix
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2007, 12:26:29 pm »

Covering all of the interior platforms + steps (note: not the teleporters and jump pads) with a thin layer of clip removes the stack overflow problem (It also increases the aas size but it can be optimized to a much smaller size using the bspc flags -optimize -aasopt) but the bots don't see the teleporter that leads to the red base so they just end up standing around smoking cigarettes, looking cool, eating rockets and such.   You could make the teleporters vertical and use a launch ramp/jump pad to force the issue but that is up to you. 

It is an interesting level.

That fixes the problem, I don't know why, but it fixes it Wink

But even while the bots don't know about the teleporters (and even while playing team dm and the objective is to kill me only), they can't navigate the areas that they know about; when in the middle platforms, they manage to just jump off into space instead of doing easy jumps.
I guess I could surround every cliff with donotenter-blocks, but shouldn't the bots figure what's dangerous or not by themselves?
The point I am trying to make is that if I e.g replace the teleporters with jump pads, the bots would still jump to their death in the middle platforms.

edit: nodrop now works and I can enjoy the feeling of realistic physics flowing through me while I see my player explode in third person when it jumps into space
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 03:06:47 pm by ratix » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2007, 12:29:22 am »

Quote
I guess I could surround every cliff with donotenter-blocks, but shouldn't the bots figure what's dangerous or not by themselves?  The point I am trying to make is that if I e.g replace the teleporters with jump pads, the bots would still jump to their death in the middle platforms.

They do know what is dangerous, which is my theory about your teleporters, currently they just see a pool of water with no bottom so they refuse to jump in.  Now if you take your teleporters, rotate them to be vertical and aim a jump pad or launch ramp at it (Don't remove them entirely, the map would be too linear) with the trigger_teleport in front of the water it may be a different story.
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ratix
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2007, 04:49:32 am »

They do know what is dangerous, which is my theory about your teleporters, currently they just see a pool of water with no bottom so they refuse to jump in.  Now if you take your teleporters, rotate them to be vertical and aim a jump pad or launch ramp at it (Don't remove them entirely, the map would be too linear) with the trigger_teleport in front of the water it may be a different story.

I did as you said, I even removed the water, but the bots still act like braindead bunnies that starts to jump when I come near and not if I'm at my base. When they jump over to the middle platforms, they still manage trip into space far too often.
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2007, 05:47:58 am »

try compiling the aas with these flags -forcesidesvisible -bsp2aas (The last bspc executable from iD has those flags available to it... but no source code Sad  )
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ratix
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2007, 10:29:33 am »

try compiling the aas with these flags -forcesidesvisible -bsp2aas (The last bspc executable from iD has those flags available to it... but no source code Sad  )
It works Smiley
Some improvement can be done with guiding the bots effectively to the other's base, but now they work great as obstacles and live targets, they even steal the flag once in a while.
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ratix
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2007, 04:46:44 pm »

new release: http://vktv.no/~zero/stuff/openarena/maps/baseoa/platforms_wip6.pk3
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Logan
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2007, 07:47:38 pm »

Well this map looks a lot more interesting than your other one. I'm downloading it now and I'll give it a try shortly.

Ok, I tried the map and I have a few issues.

First, a message keeps scrolling in my console "weapon out of range" over and over. I've seen this in other custom maps too, and I'm wondering if it has to do with OpenArena itself?

Second, Is it just me, or is the location where the quad spawns at impossible to safely leave from and get to without rocket jumping?

Nice work. Hope to see this map included with the next release. If they're including crap maps like Void4 they better include this one.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 08:00:23 pm by Logan » Logged

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dmn_clown
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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2007, 09:22:03 pm »

If they're including crap maps like Void4 they better include this one.

To be fair void4 is commented out in the arena.txt file so you should blame the server admins that throw it into rotation and not the project ;-p
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Logan
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2007, 10:40:39 pm »

If they're including crap maps like Void4 they better include this one.

To be fair void4 is commented out in the arena.txt file so you should blame the server admins that throw it into rotation and not the project ;-p

Hmm, what do you mean "commented out"? Ya, that server Beergarden doesn't run as many maps as I'd like, and it's got Void4 going there.
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