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Akom74
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« on: October 12, 2013, 01:34:53 pm »

Hi all  Grin

Here is the second CTF map for OA.

            

Here is the download link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/vepm3lis16nlxc8mzcdn

Enjoy it and tell me if you find some bugs or things that maybe make the map work better.

 Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 11:34:39 am »

I just gave a first look, without bots for now. Not bad!  Smiley

Things I noticed for now.
- Map crashes if you load it without setting CTF gametype first (I can guess FFA spawn points have not been placed yet... of course it's just the first beta  Wink).
- Look at the first screenshot attached: the animation of the jump-pad looks misaligned from the jump-pad texture... strange, did you use two different brushes (with two different shaders) for the two parts, maybe?  Huh
- Look at the second screenshot attached: I am in the blue part (on a lateral path), and that teleporter brings to the red part... so maybe that teleporter should show "something red", more or less like the central path teleporter does?

Bye!
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Akom74
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 01:29:57 pm »

Thank you Gig.

The jumppad has a bug, it's a patch mesh disaligned Tongue
I will fix it. Also i have to add some info_player_deathmatch to avoid some error in other game mode Smiley

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 02:26:20 pm »

Gave it a quick run.
So far, it's all good and well, yet, there's a problem with this map. Namely the fact that the map is pretty camping-friendly. In 3on3+ matches (4on4, for example), you can place one player at the entrance of each tube. This is with all weapons, in Instagib the problem is even worse.
Sadly, I have no idea on what to do to solve this.
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Akom74
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 12:32:02 am »

Gave it a quick run.
So far, it's all good and well, yet, there's a problem with this map. Namely the fact that the map is pretty camping-friendly. In 3on3+ matches (4on4, for example), you can place one player at the entrance of each tube. This is with all weapons, in Instagib the problem is even worse.
Sadly, I have no idea on what to do to solve this.

In every map with teleporters the problem is the same.
Maybe i can change the height of the teleporters as Akomctf2:



Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 05:42:46 am »

Alternate idea for solving the problem: duplicating teleporters (6 teleporters instead of 3 in each base). I mean, in each base there are three "teleporter rooms". You may slightly enlarge each room, and place two teleporters there making it impossible for a single "camper" to have both teleporters in his crosshair (e.g. one on the left wall, and one on the right wall). That would require more players for camping on all teleporters!

Just an idea...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 05:47:26 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 06:11:37 am »

In every map with teleporters the problem is the same.

I'm "autoquoting" myself. Every map with teleporters have this "issue", in a fight 3 vs. 3 if everyone camper (one for teleporter), who run for the flag and viceversa ?

@Gig: I can duplicate the teleporters, but in a fight 6 vs. 6 the "problem" remain.

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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 06:39:33 am »

@Gig: I can duplicate the teleporters, but in a fight 6 vs. 6 the "problem" remain.
Are 7vs7 or more matches so common? In 6v6, if everyone's camping, noone would try to get the enemy flag!  Cheesy

Well different "solutions" may include:
- designing the map in a way that the only places where you could camp at the exit of the teleporter have some trap that kills the camper (e.g. a crusher that is activated when someone is going to enter the origin teleporter that brings there)...
- you may remove teleporters... is it really needed for the map to be splitted in two sections?
- A fix that may change too much the map layout, I fear, but may be interesting: making the teleporters one-way, placing the exit from the teleporter on an area that is not in sight of campers, like a large platform above the map that allows you to choose to jump down to one of the three paths below you (the camper should not know on which path you will fall down before you do).

I should try your Akomctf2 (not oa_akomctf2) actual gameplay...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 07:00:36 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 10:46:09 am »

@Gig: I can duplicate the teleporters, but in a fight 6 vs. 6 the "problem" remain.
Are 7vs7 or more matches so common? In 6v6, if everyone's camping, noone would try to get the enemy flag!  Cheesy

That is the point ! Also in 3 vs 3 there is the same "problem" for the teleporters.

 Wink
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adriano
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 09:09:18 am »

Hey Akom,
I saw your map right now... firstly I had some doubt that the map is made of two separate worlds, but placing the teleporters on each of the 3 ends makes the map well playable. I like the main design and details of the map. The flagg is well placed. Powerups & weapons seem well placed, too. As already said, teleport-camping is here critical, especially because here you have to take the teleport to go to the opponent at all costs and the enemy knows that (teleporter is often used). Idk right now how can be a good solution for this...I'll write again when I have more in mind.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 09:13:05 am by adriano » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 09:54:54 am »

Now that I think of it... what about placing two Guard runes and an Invulnerability holdable per base?

EDIT: Alternatively, the three routes, or at least one of them, should go towards a neutral area with an Invulnerability and other goodies. You know, like mpteam6 (and in OA, delta) did.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 09:59:31 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Akom74
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 02:08:01 pm »

Update !  Grin

Here is the Download Link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/vepm3lis16nlxc8mzcdn

Updates:

1) Fixed jumppad effect.
2) Chenged some geometry in the central passage.
3) Deleted the lateral buildings and rebuilded it.
4) Added two more teleporter for each base, theorically this way can avoid the "teleporter-camping".
5) Added info_player_deathmatch to avoid the bug in other gametype.

Tell me if this time the map is better than before.

Wink
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adriano
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 05:22:18 am »

Good changes, especially the field of view at the rail spot is smaller (thanks to the new pillars at centre and closed rooms at lateral buildings), so that the intention to rail-camp is minimized. At lateral buildings I would overcross the position of "where the portal teleports you", so that e.g. you take the LG before teleporter and next to teleporter you have the SG infront of you and not again the LG.
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Akom74
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 03:07:04 am »

At lateral buildings I would overcross the position of "where the portal teleports you", so that e.g. you take the LG before teleporter and next to teleporter you have the SG infront of you and not again the LG.

Thanks for your feedback  Grin
I'll change the position of LG.

Anyone else ?  Tongue

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 08:53:04 am »

Sorry, I will not be able to test before a couple of days.
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Akom74
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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2013, 09:33:49 am »

Sorry, I will not be able to test before a couple of days.

Ok Gig, don't forget also oa_akomctf3  Grin Grin

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Gig
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2013, 07:46:03 am »

After a quick walking around oa_akomctf2 (sorry, I did try with bots yet):
I like this version.  Smiley
Things I noticed:
1) Some accelerator pads do not accelerate you enough, at least playing with fixed 91 Hz physics, causing you to land on the other accelerator pad, hence being pushed back! This really should be fixed somehow... of course, also other kinds of physics have to be playable, too.
2) Maybe you may place something that prevents from railing at the central telporter directly from your own flag (see screenshot)? Not sure, maybe it's not necessary, considering the railguns are placed next to the teleporter itself, and I don't see ammo boxes for it around. I don't know.
3) An idea I just got, while writing 1) above: what about making the accelerator pads to use slightly different paths, to avoid the risk of mid-air crash with another player (and the relative double death). I have not tried with bots yet, so I don't know if that's a real risk. Hey, maybe you may even place two "twin" incoming accelerator pads and one outgoing? Just an idea.
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Akom74
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 10:53:18 am »

After a quick walking around oa_akomctf2 (sorry, I did try with bots yet):
I like this version.  Smiley

Thanks  Grin

Quote
Things I noticed:
1) Some accelerator pads do not accelerate you enough, at least playing with fixed 91 Hz physics, causing you to land on the other accelerator pad, hence being pushed back! This really should be fixed somehow... of course, also other kinds of physics have to be playable, too.

1) Most of players play at the default physics speed, in this way the jumppads work well.

Quote
2) Maybe you may place something that prevents from railing at the central telporter directly from your own flag (see screenshot)? Not sure, maybe it's not necessary, considering the railguns are placed next to the teleporter itself, and I don't see ammo boxes for it around. I don't know.

2) Maybe i'll make something about it.  Tongue

Quote
3) An idea I just got, while writing 1) above: what about making the accelerator pads to use slightly different paths, to avoid the risk of mid-air crash with another player (and the relative double death). I have not tried with bots yet, so I don't know if that's a real risk. Hey, maybe you may even place two "twin" incoming accelerator pads and one outgoing? Just an idea.

3) Mid-air crash and falling down is part of the game in this kind of map. By the way, playing with bots, you can see that the risk is minimum, don't know in online play.

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Gig
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2013, 03:07:19 am »

1) Some accelerator pads do not accelerate you enough, at least playing with fixed 91 Hz physics, causing you to land on the other accelerator pad, hence being pushed back! This really should be fixed somehow... of course, also other kinds of physics have to be playable, too.

1) Most of players play at the default physics speed, in this way the jumppads work well.

Trying with those jumps, it looks like that pmove_float ("accurate physics") jump lenght is somewhere in the middle between 90 Hz and 125 Hz physics.
I would really suggest to do everything is possible to make maps working with all these three kinds of physics. Consider also that "accurate physics" does not work with many old mods.

http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics#Default_values_and_menu_option
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Framerate
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Com_maxfps_ranges_and_actual_framerates
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 03:18:45 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2013, 01:57:17 am »

Trying with bots, the map is nice to play.  Smiley

With 7 players per team (probably too many for this map!), I got the "double death due to mid-air crash with another character" a couple of times in about 10 minutes. I can guess that can be acceptable.
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 09:43:02 am »

Shares the same faith of lighting as one of your DM maps; where is the light-source which emits lights on the outer floors?
The textures of the teleports seems to be missing.
Too bad it's symmetrical, again =\.
It doesn't feel like the supports carry the buildings if you fall down the map. Perhaps they could use some more details as well.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:46:14 am by Suicizer » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 10:34:57 am »

Shares the same faith of lighting as one of your DM maps; where is the light-source which emits lights on the outer floors?
The textures of the teleports seems to be missing.
Too bad it's symmetrical, again =\.
It doesn't feel like the supports carry the buildings if you fall down the map. Perhaps they could use some more details as well.

The main light it's gived from the skybox, the other lights are emitted from the "lamps" in the map.
The texture of the teleport is an OA original, don't know....

I'll insert more pillar-details in the final release Tongue

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 10:44:16 am »

You might want to take a look at this in order to understand what Suicizer pointed out: http://www.moddb.com/tutorials/lighting-in-game-environments-the-hows-and-whys
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Akom74
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 10:53:34 am »

You might want to take a look at this in order to understand what Suicizer pointed out: http://www.moddb.com/tutorials/lighting-in-game-environments-the-hows-and-whys

I know he mean that, but in the map there are light sources and some minor light to illuminate a little more, in the next release (when OACMP Volume 2 start) i will decrease the minor light effect.

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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 12:02:05 pm »

Shares the same faith of lighting as one of your DM maps; where is the light-source which emits lights on the outer floors?
The textures of the teleports seems to be missing.
Too bad it's symmetrical, again =\.
It doesn't feel like the supports carry the buildings if you fall down the map. Perhaps they could use some more details as well.

The main light it's gived from the skybox, the other lights are emitted from the "lamps" in the map.
The texture of the teleport is an OA original, don't know....

I'll insert more pillar-details in the final release Tongue

Wink

It has a pitchblack skybox...
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