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Author Topic: CTF_Test issue  (Read 5924 times)
Akom74
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« on: March 10, 2014, 12:54:00 pm »

Hi all.

I have noticed an issue in a map i'm doing in these days.



See attachment to download the bsp and aas to see the map.

It's a tiny ctf map with a subway theme. The problem is the Train, sometime bots or a dropped weapon, block the train that seems like in an earthquake.

How to fix this issue ? I'm doing some experiment, but now i'm asking to you all an help.

To use the map, extract it in your "maps" folder under OA, launch OA and drop down the console and type "SV_PURE 0" (without quotes) and then "map oa_ctf_test" (without quotes).

Wink
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 12:56:57 pm by Akom74 » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 01:06:50 pm »

Sorry, cannot test it now. However you wrote you attached bsp and aas... also attaching .map may have been useful.

What did you use to make the train move? "Func_train", "func_bobbing", or some other trick?

To avoid dropped weapons to get in its way, you may place "nodrop" brushes along its path; to avoid bots getting in its way, what about making some try with "donotenter" brushes along its path? But I can guess problems may happen also with human players...
Maybe you may consider the binary is electrified, so any player touching it would be killed in a very short time (fast "trigger_hurt" on the floor near the rail)... just an idea...
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Akom74
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2014, 01:07:49 pm »

Sorry Tongue

In the attachment you can find the original .map file to watch the map in the editor.
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sago007
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2014, 01:49:09 pm »

Is the mover marked as crushing?

I saw the same effect in a remake of the last map from Q3. After I made an activated mover count as a kill to the activator the game would trigger this effect if the mover hit a teammate. That is also the reason OpenArena allows teamkills with traps now...
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Akom74
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2014, 02:16:42 pm »

The train it's an entity named func_train and cannot be triggered as crush or something similar.
I've tryed it but it cannot be do with this entity.

I can't use a trigger hurt as long as the rails or in the passage of the train because it's a passage for players. I've placed a brush with "nodrop" but corpse remain......

In the 4 holes i've placed a trigger hurt that kill the player, but again corpse remain..... Sad ....

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 06:43:12 am »

Made a try of few minutes. Yes, ordering a team-mate of mine to camp there, I saw what happens.

I achieved to mitigate the effect by further enlarging the "nodrop" area, to make sure it covers the roof of the train and (with another brush, because the original one may have finished into the void if enlarged.. I don't know if that would have been a problem) placed "nodrop" also all along the "output" tunnel (still high enough to cover roof of the train).
This way, it seems the problem is mitigated by the fact dropped weapons do not block the train anymore.

But the train is still blocked for a while (although for much shorter time than before)... I'm not sure, I have the impression the player is not gibbed immediately, and blocks the train for a second. I cannot do more tests before the next week.
Possible ideas (untested):
1) Maybe you may try to add a second trigger_hurt (standard or activated by a trigger_multiple or trigger_always? I don't know), to check if it is possible to "gib" the character in a shorter time.
2) What about making the output (unreachable for players) tunnel longer, to allow the train to finish its movement in that direction, without encountering the wall that blocks the corpse the train is pushing?

But there is a problem also those things would not fix. Once I've seen the train blocked by alive bot, in the middle of the map (not blocked by solid brushes, at least apparently). The bot was camping there where I told it to camp (in the middle of the tunnel)... the train arrived and, instead of pushing the bot towards the trigger_hurt as it usually does, that time the train got stuck there (shaking), while the bot remained there like if nothing happened (a man blocking a train).
Trains in Q3 are very basic... there are many things one may want to do with them, which are just not possible.
Maybe I may do more tests the next week... if nothing works, what about making the train go back and forth on the same rail, with func_bobbing? I know it's worse, but...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 07:05:28 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 10:21:53 am »

Thanks Gig.

I've also noticed the same things, don't know how to avoid this crap.... Roll Eyes Tongue
I've modifyed the map as much as you suggest, but still remein the same issue, but..... Rest In PEACE!

 Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 04:09:09 am »

Hi Akom... did you do some other try in these days?
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 07:56:32 am »

Akom, I did some other try... you can find oa_ctf_test1.pk3 attached here (.map included).

Changes against your original version:
- Added a black squared block over the tunnel I worked on, to immediately identify it.
- Enlarged the "nodrop" area, to cover the whole train height.
- Added a trigger_multiple --> target_remove_powerups (not sure about the reason of this, but this is listed in the passages to create a death pit here: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Creating_dynamic_features#Death_pits)

The corpse continues to do not explode, so the only workaround I found has been to....
- Made the "output" tunnel longer, so that the corpse does not reach the solid wall too early (I don't know if characters with longer "death animations" may be a problem)...
- Enlarged the trigger_hurt (and the common/nodrop) accordingly
- Added "clip" (player clip) "guides" which guide players towards the central (deadly) part of the tunnel, to avoid a character being stuck on the non-killing outer walls.

This seems to work well enough Smiley when there is only one character on the path of the train... but if you order many bots to camp there, you realize there is a big problem: it looks like the train is able to "push" only one character at once.... if there is a second character blocking the first one.... the train will be blocked (shaking), instead of pushing both characters.  Sad

Note: to do the tests, using devmap and then working with "timescale" value (setting it to an higher value and then back to 1 when the train is approaching) may help you save some time...
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 07:59:18 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 03:41:58 pm »

Hi, thanks Gig.

I've see your changes, but i think this train stuff maybe used only as choreographic thing in a map.
By the way, this is only a test map, just to see how it come out.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 03:49:42 pm »

But the idea IS interesting...

Can I suggest trying a single tunnel instead of two, and a train made with a func_bobbing?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 03:54:02 pm by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 03:52:43 pm »

Can I suggest trying a single tunnel instead of two, and a train made with a func_bobbing?

Yes, but my idea was to place another two train with different sizes Tongue
I'll try to do something...... Cheesy

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 05:13:57 am »

Akom, I did more tests, this time with func_bobbing. And it seems it works!  Smiley
The problem is that you should rework the station to have only one tunnel instead of two, because the train goes back and forth on the same line.

I started from your original .map and made these changes:
- Enlarged the "nodrop" area, to cover the whole train height and the whole tunnel lenght (I can guess dropped items to not block the func_bobbing, but I can guess it may be good to avoid characters spending too much time on the railway to grab items! However you may do some try removing the nodrop from the illuminated part of the tunnel -keeping it in the dark parts instead-, if you wish).
- Transformed the "func_train" into a "func_bobbing" which moves along the y axis (in the process, GTKR editor left a "func_train" entity without brushes, which prevented the map from being loaded in the game... I used a text editor to remove that leftover entity and compiled the map again). Moved the train to the middle of the map.
It works!  Smiley Players are first pushed and then die, gibbing! If there is a second player blocking the first one, the train isn't stopped anymore: now the players are immediately squished if something or someone is blocking them!

A thing I noticed then, is that sometimes the "heart" of some gibbed players did remain suspended mid-air for a few seconds next to the "trigger_hurt". Then I removed the trigger_hurt brushes: now it's just the func_bobbing against the final wall which crushes the player. After doing that, I haven't noticed supended hearts anymore (yet). However, if that would happen in the pitch black part of the map, that should not be a problem, I can guess.
Another strange thing that once happened has been that the train seemed having somehow pushed me over the map hull (maybe "deathcam in void")? Not sure about what happened exactly. After that, I enlarged the brush of the outer wall (at the end of the tunnels). That glitch has not happened anymore, I don't know if my change really fixed it or just it's so rare it's difficult to reproduce.

Akom, I really think you may do your map this way.  Smiley

Attached, you can find oa_ctf_test2.pk3. It comes with one .map and two .bsp -with their .aas-: (/devmap oa_ctf_test2 and /devmap oa_ctf_test2b)... first one compiled with lighting, and the second one compiled without lighting (to clearer see what happens).

Notes:
- You can tweak func_bobbing "height" and "speed" (time) values to adjust train speed as you wish.
- I haven't polished the map from other things which are not needed anymore (path_corner, etc).
- Maybe the central area should be tweaked to get more light (to better illuminate the train).
- It may be nice to find a gpl/pd train sound (or record a real train by your own), to add it to the func_bobbing.
- If you wish, you may make other tunnels on the opposite sides of the map, with a func_train going in only one direction per tunnel, by making those parts of the map "cosmetic" only, not reachable for players...

A side note (mostly oriented to Sago): testing this, I noticed what seems a bug with scoring (I will report it to the 0.8.8 bugs thread after some more testing): I was testing in CTF mode... when I was alone, or there was only another player on my team (there were no players on the other team), each time one of us died, our individual score did go down (-1, -2, -3, etc.)... after I added more bots (still all in the same team), individual scores would not be changed anymore. I did not try to capture a flag...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 05:19:33 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Akom74
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 11:30:27 am »

Thanks Gig.

Func_Bobbing seems to work well, but it's not the idea i have, i'll see what to do.
By the way it's only a test map, just to see lights and special item (i have to insert them).

Wink
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