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Author Topic: Problem with Bots  (Read 9024 times)
JoeMaro
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« on: December 31, 2014, 09:27:41 AM »

Hey Forums!

i'm playing OA with Aftershock-mod these days to practise duel. At least i would like to Smiley
But the bots dont care for the Megahealth and RA Tongue they just feel very very basic to me. They dont time.
in Q3 the bots were challenging for items and at least picking them up but here the bots just walk by very closely without picking up MH.

Maybe somebody knows how to get bots working better by third-party bots?
Tried the brainworks thing but it didnt really change...

or could it be the map? practising a lot on aerowalk and i guess the botplay there has been carefully designed...

thanks for help!

ps:  lots of love for <3 OpenArena <3 !!!!!
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grey matter
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 11:45:53 AM »

Brainworks is just a mod, not an engine modification. Since id Tech 3's QVM/mod system is pretty limited, you can not use two mods in combination (unless e.g. one only modifies ui and the other one is server-side).
The bot logic is partially implemented in the engine and partially in the mods themselves. Most mods however don't modify the stock Quake 3 bot logic (not sure about Aftershock).

That aside, bot support also depends on the map. Each map has an .aas file which contains item and area reachabilities. The map designer needs to be careful not to break bot support and sometimes even has to add additional metadata for the bots.

Finally each bot can have individual characteristics, so maybe the bots you added just don't want to use MH/RA. Try with other bots and (higher) bot skill level as well. Which bots with which skill level are you using?

If you're using the original id Quake 3 assets (i.e. both maps and bots) then I'd assume the bots would work better. OpenArena *should be compatible, but maybe you stumbled upon a bug.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 11:48:44 AM by grey matter » Logged

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JoeMaro
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 01:23:39 PM »

fast reply for now:

the skill is nightmare, the most difficult.

yes i know most of the things that you write about ... but well other q3arena bots on the same map pickup the item and cpma too ... only the OA bots dont Smiley

wonder if something has gone wrong in the code conversion?
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JoeMaro
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 04:00:55 PM »

i find this really easy to replicate:
create a server with yourself and 2 bots and watch them play a duel/tournament. they will very much ignore the MH ... even in the first OA map (trial by error the name?)
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 05:26:15 PM »

Also bear in mind that the latest versions of Aftershock don't really support OA 0.8.8 (they were in their way to standalone) and last time I've checked they weren't going to fix the incompatibilities.
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JoeMaro
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2015, 11:16:03 AM »

ok thanks for explaining that... i didnt know...
what a pity because for me OA isnt playable without fullbright-skins ...
the models are so difficult to see and then again its a matter of picmip and all that model-visibility improving stuff, which is a road i dont wanna go.

was a very bad decision to leave that option out of OA in my opinion. like that it can't be used for competitive play...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 12:35:08 PM »

The original Q3 (NOT QL) also hasn't brightskins. BS were implemented by mods.

Brightskins are also a workaround for a problem with level design: bad lighting in maps. In a game with good visibility from both maps and models, they shouldn't be a requirement. Ever.

About the visibility problem, OA3 (the next full version of OA) will take care of that with better visibility in both maps and models. =)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 03:44:36 PM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 05:13:47 AM »

About models:
You can use "/cg_forcemodel 1" to see all the models look like your own character (select a nicely visible character) in non-team-based matches, and "sarge" character (which currently uses "grism" model, which should be visible enough) in team-based matches. That's the way the base game worked since q3a.

About bots:
Uhm.. to check if the problem is realated with aftershock or oa bots or the map... I can guess some tests one may do could be (assuming you also own a copy of Q3A):
1) Download some third-party bot designed for Q3, and a third-party map designed for Q3, and put them in your Quake3.
2) If you do have Q3, let bots in the map for some time (tip: using "devmap <mapname>" and then changing "timescale <n.n>" may be very useful to make it faster).
3) Try with some stock q3 bots and with the third party bot you downloaded. If none searches for those items, maybe the map is the problem (try downloading another map and try again). If some q3 bots search for those items, but the custom bot you downloaded not, try downloading another one until you find one which does.
4) Copy the map and the bot to your OA.
5) Try the same map (doesn't matter if many textures are not shown) with the bot you previously downloaded (and which you already know likes those items), and with some stock OA bots. What happens?
6) Repeat "5" in both baseoa and Aftershock. Do you notice changes?

Note: OA bots did get some change which BROKEN compatibility with bots designed for Q3 in the past (I don't know exactly when, maybe since the beginning): e.g. if you place a bot designed for Q3 in OA 0.8.5 (unless using a small compatibility patch by Graion Dilach), you can see MANY errors in console, and the bots unable to select weapons.
OA 0.8.8 already includes that compatibilty patch, which allows the game to manage both OA-style bot files and Q3-style bot files (although a few warning messages occasionally appear in console if using q3 bots).
If Aftershock is based upon older OA code (e.g. 0.8.1/0.8.5), it may lack that compatibilty patch, and thus third-party bots designed for Q3 may show big problems there (unless Aftershock guys did a botcompat patch on their own!)... I haven't tried.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 05:16:22 AM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 01:45:22 PM »

If you're using a form of Linux you might want to try r_overbrightBits 0 to disable the overbright.  The way overbrights work is that it kicks up the screen brightness/contrast to simulate higher sampled lighting, but xorg along the way in 2008 regressed that and this bug wasn't fixed until sometime last year in the OA engine tree.
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