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Author Topic: prototypical attempts to map  (Read 5500 times)
fromhell
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« on: April 07, 2015, 08:10:38 am »

Textures and look are completely rudimentary and will definitely be missing, i'm still figuring out a layout for this one.  Not a pk3, no bots, just a bare BSP.  Polishing stage to come much later.


The purpose of this file is feedback on layout as I am seriously trying to Sad
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 08:20:46 am by fromhell » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 10:34:45 am »

I like it!  Smiley
One may think the overall shape is a bit strange (something between a pirate ship and the Millennium Falcon?), but that's cool. Maybe some eastern people did have such "petal-shaped" ships? However, that's nice!

There are a couple of places where I feel the lack of a step/jumppad to reach the immediately upper floor, but probably that's stuff for a later stage of development...

Just asking... some of its narrow corridors may become a problem in a crowded server, maybe?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:38:22 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 06:00:51 pm »

I played around for about half an hour and overall I think the map is subpar. I have a bunch of screenshots of specific criticisms/suggestions here: http://imgur.com/a/Mp4dq
I hope you don't take it as me being harsh, I just want you to do something good with this map; I do think that the map has potential to be a fun, casual DM map (4-6 players). I wouldn't recommened it at all for 1v1 (even if you were to remove quad and add red armor/mega health), but I don't think you were aiming for that anyway.  Smiley
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fromhell
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2015, 01:02:30 am »

Any critique is good critique no matter how harsh so thanks.  My mapping skills are a 'tertiary' skill at best at a programmer art level (though compare oa_bases5 with this).  Probably doesn't help I don't use any Radiant and can't bother to learn them since I grew on the Worldcrafthammer way of doing things back in 97 and couldn't start learning on qeradiant for q2 a year after and went to QuArK instead since, since that's like a worldcraft in Delphi (with a shitton of useless featurecreep that compromise the stability).

I've been fixing the layout according to many of those comments trying to improve the flow and size.  The texture selection is upgraded to 'tolerable' (requires OACMP1), the useless storage room got axed, so did the useless hatch to nowhere, and some other layout changes.  Unfortunately I didn't change any spawning points or entities yet since my focus was on improving the geometry.
Given the layout i'm having a hard time with the mast positions and how i'd have sails (if they clip or not, or turn into slick sliders etc, though i don't want any blocky dm-kgalleon stuff going on). Might axe the back-to-front long jumppad when sails are added.

"THELL DID I DO!!!" triggers a metal floor trap in the rooms connected under the stairs. and those traps just have YAs over them. i don't know what i'm doing really, just want to try a dumping trap idea somewhere.

.map is provided for entity experimentation probably, but i wouldn't advise touching the geometry on that much since I map in QuArK which has a ton of 'helper' objects (like the curves which don't get mirrored properly and need manual fixing later)

.ass and light is also provided though it looks a little dim (gamma/compensate got switched on)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 02:14:17 am by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 03:22:56 am »

It looks like there is some problem with some shader... for some reason, the map crashes on my system:

Code:
VM file cgame compiled to 1079730 bytes of code
cgame loaded in 4743488 bytes on the hunk
stitched 0 LoD cracks
...loaded 1652 faces, 24 meshes, 0 trisurfs, 0 flares
WARNING: reused image textures/flares/flarey.tga with mixed glWrapClampMode
parm
WARNING: reused image textures/flares/lava.tga with mixed glWrapClampMode
parm
CL_InitCGame:  2.89 seconds
4 msec to draw all images
Com_TouchMemory: 0 msec
test entered the game
********************
ERROR: SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES hit in FillCloudySkySide()

********************
----- Server Shutdown (Server crashed: SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES hit in
FillCloudySkySide()
) -----
==== ShutdownGame ====
AAS shutdown.
---------------------------
Wrote challenges.cfg
RE_Shutdown( 0 )
Hunk_Clear: reset the hunk ok
----- R_Init -----

GL_VENDOR: Intel
GL_RENDERER: Intel Bear Lake B
GL_VERSION: 1.4.0 - Build 7.15.10.5218
GL_EXTENSIONS: GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_fragment_program
GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_shadow
GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression
GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine
GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_transpose_matrix
GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_window_pos
GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_func_separate
GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint
GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_cull_vertex GL_EXT_draw_range_elements
GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_pixels
GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color
GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_add
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias
GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture3D
GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1 GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat
GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_WIN_swap_hint
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 2048
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS_ARB: 8

PIXELFORMAT: color(24-bits) Z(24-bit) stencil(0-bits)
MODE: 3, 640 x 480 windowed hz:N/A
GAMMA: hardware w/ 0 overbright bits
rendering primitives: single glDrawElements
texturemode: GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR
picmip: 1
texture bits: 32
multitexture: enabled
compiled vertex arrays: enabled
texenv add: enabled
compressed textures: disabled
glsl programs: disabled
Initializing Shaders
WARNING: Bad shader file scripts/ospdm12.shader has incorrect syntax.
WARNING: Bad shader file scripts/ospdm12door.shader has incorrect syntax.
----- finished R_Init -----

Update: If I set "r_fastky 1" (disable sky shader), I can play the map.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 03:58:25 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 04:15:54 am »

Given a quick run (with r_fastsky 1)...
The map is nice, although the "work in progess" feeling is still high.  Smiley

In the attached files, you can find a couple of places where "invisible walls" (brush overlapping?) occur... and a place where the "boardwork" looks too much "2D" (while in other parts of the map, you placed a 3D border (extra brushes) around that "grate-like" flat brush, making it nicer). Nothing strange, considering the early stage of the map.  Wink

When playing with bots, I realized some health bonuses would be useful.  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 04:18:53 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
fromhell
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2015, 05:04:54 pm »

I map in QuArK which has a ton of 'helper' objects (like the curves which don't get mirrored properly and need manual fixing later)
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Suicizer
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 10:22:17 am »

I map in QuArK which has a ton of 'helper' objects (like the curves which don't get mirrored properly and need manual fixing later)

Can't you map in Blender =P?
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 10:53:03 am »

Can't you map in Blender =P?
Sort of; http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/idtech/exporting-models-as-bsp-maps.php
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 03:31:24 pm »

I'm beginning to like this map. The obvious problems are ones you'll get to eventually (health/armor, cleaning up invisible walls). My main concern with the changes you've made is that now RG seems to be even more powerful; there are a lot of open spaces and it's beginning to feel like Vertical Vengeance in terms of vulnerability to long distance shots. I can't think of an immediate solution to that, I'll just have to see what you can come up with. Good changes overall.

P.S. The YA trap doesn't prevent people from jumping over the gap and getting YA without dying. I'm not sure if you really care about that but it's just something I noticed.
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 12:39:23 pm »

Tried out to load the map in OA 0.8.8
Got a critical error which disabled continuing the map due certain shaders and vertices.

Error
shader_max_vertexes hit in fillcloudyskyside()
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 12:42:23 pm by Suicizer » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2015, 01:37:00 am »

Tried out to load the map in OA 0.8.8
Got a critical error which disabled continuing the map due certain shaders and vertices.

Error
shader_max_vertexes hit in fillcloudyskyside()

.
.
.
.

It looks like there is some problem with some shader... for some reason, the map crashes on my system.
[...]
Update: If I set "r_fastky 1" (disable sky shader), I can play the map.

 Wink
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fromhell
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2015, 01:56:16 am »

Maybe scrolling skies and skybox entities (q3map2 trick) aren't a great idea.  I changed it to a very simple lowres skybox anyway
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2015, 05:52:50 am »

Finally tried out the map (with r_fastsky 1);

It so far is a layout which flows quite well. at some points you do get stopped by jumppads or sharp corners; but that's editable.

As it's seems like a deathmatch map, try to make it asymmetric. That makes it way more spicy to play as you aren't in the same situation at each side of the map (except things happen at the other side of your screen).

The map feels too "jumpy" to me with the several jumppads added, while they also launch they player from 1 side to another without any pause within it. This makes you an easy target for any opponent as he knows where you are going to land.
Keep in mind; jumppads are flow killers; at some point players are just sitting ducks ready to be shot while floating in the air (in cases of launching upwards only) and their landing area is nearly certain for opponents as you can't control your movement that much as you can with some stairs or a ramp for example. There is only the exception of CPMA physics which do let you have an insanely air control; but that's not where a regular map should aim at (neither being used as an excuse for using jumppads).

The jumppad on the 2nd floor (the one in the middle) could be dropped and the 2 others could be made more powerful.

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