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kr3am
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« on: March 15, 2008, 04:41:23 AM »

Can anyone pls tell me where there are servers where they do not allow cheating.

Here are my experiences with the servers i played on.
the other players were so much harder to frag than me.
i get fragged by just a couple of hits from the machine gun.
other players were taking up to 4 hits with the rocket launcher.
i was spied on two separate servers by a spectator.
disconnected.

 is Open Arena the cheaters game or wtf.

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pulchr
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2008, 07:35:01 AM »

i've played lots of opernarena and i've never encountered anyone that i suspect cheat.

however, there are a big difference between experienced players and not so experienced players. i'm not saying that you're not good - but accuracy and picking up armour means a lot. also latency can play a big difference when it comes to how to play. i avoid all servers that give me a latency of above 100.

openarena has a lot of very friendly and fun players, it's not a game for cheaters. however punkbuster does not work with openarena, so you can never be sure i guess. and then punkbuster was never perfect either Tongue
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Snickersnack
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obnoxious OA fan


« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2008, 11:21:00 AM »

I haven't seen any cheating, just artistry. Quake3 has been out for almost 10 years. There are some VERY good players. I've been playing off and on for about 6 months and I'm still a joke. Smiley

Have you practiced with the bots any? If you can beat them regularly on "bring it on" difficulty you should know the game well enough to have enjoyable (although non-victorius) games with real people.
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iLeft.bye
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2008, 12:46:39 PM »

...there are many cheaters
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fromhell
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 12:43:47 AM »

I've been contemplating ideas for server cvars such as sv_maxmip and sv_allowVertex and sv_maxfov for more 'forced fairness' servers to be run and kicking out players with inappropriate cvar values automatically. We don't have Punkbuster (And we never will) to do this for us so hrm.

but reactions to these ideas are usually "UGH YOUR RUININ CARMACKS VISION OF A REAL GAME" etc.   If that was true then why didn't Quake3 look like that out of the box?

Vertex lighting is there to help greatly performance of single-TMU cards (Voodoo1/Banshee, most integrated chipsets in the 90s) not to turn off shadows and reveal everyone, completely ruining the 'hiding' element in certain levels. A similar request was constantly demanded for Raven to put in 'ambient light' as a non-cheat cvar in a Quake4 patch. It passed, patch released with it, and many players played without lighting, and the game's popularity died off because no one can ever play a fair game. Thank you, 'pro gamers'. It is funny to see that most of these claim to use FX5200s to support the ambient light request. If they care so much about gaming like a pro maybe they should have shelled out for a card that doesn't suck i.e. radeon 9500 or better. I don't game much myself as much as they do and i'm always consistently 2 generations behind the latest in video hardware and it's not hard to really keep up like that so what's their real excuse?  Well anyway this made Quake4 have less players than OpenArena at any given time of the day, which is a shame, because I really, really liked Quake4 and what Raven has done for it until that patch.

Picmip is for fitting textures into VRAM and reducing disk swapping, not making players more obvious and make the game look what it wasn't intended to look. This should be automatically maximumed to 1 just for detecting a 32+mb card anyway, and only allow higher if there's less of it (4-16MB cards).

FOV, well, people called this as fair as using a crosshair in the Quake days... i doubt it. Enjoy being a fish. Quake2 had a fixed FOV dmflag for servers to sort every player out at fov 90 only but it didn't appear in Q3A. Then again flares in q3a was scrapped too, so...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 12:57:25 AM by leilol » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
kr3am
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Kitty at work


« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2008, 09:12:37 AM »

Thank you for your replies, it is good to hear from you as i was starting to get the wrong idea about this game. i do have a latency problem as the lowest i can get is over 300. i have played  q3 q4 a lot at home with my other sisters (they don't play anymore) and they think im pretty darn good so i would expect to do better than i have been doing. i got my eldest sis to watch as i played the other night (she is the IT one) she laughed and said they were definately cheating.
It would be a good idea to get servers to force more fairness as i never will cheat, it is bad for me and bad for the game.
i guess after a while i will get to recognize who they are.
All in all i think you have a really great game here and i will keep playing, thank you again.


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Snickersnack
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 01:14:13 PM »

Wow, OpenArena has more players than Quake4? Congrats!!!

I hadn't noticed any cheating. Would any of you vets mind sharing some of the dead give aways for the n00bs in the house? Smiley

What constitutes a cheat? My screen is very dark. I can't see the indoor areas of OA_rpg3dm2 if there's any light in the room. To compensate for this I tend run with "r_mapoverbrightbits" set at 3. It improves my situational awareness dramatically but I hadn't considered the plight of campers in the shadows. What settings should be left alone to avoid poor sportsmanship?

Thanks.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2008, 02:39:46 PM »

1) How is that your ping so high ? There may be a few things you could do to improve that (stop downloads, set up a few hidden parameters inside OA, ...).
2) You're wrong when thinking guys cheat. I've been playing OA for months and never saw one, even if I was suspicous towards some. They may have better ping and better training (months of playing online).
By cheat I mean using aimbot or such, not visual tricks which help to make things visible/fluid
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ecru
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 04:21:59 PM »

I am from regional Australia, and it is unusual to ping under 300 to populated overseas servers (nobody plays on the Australian server).

I'm not a good player, however this is what I have found.

High pings mean people may no longer be where you see them.  This also means they can be shooting you before they appear on your screen, and you can still take hits when on your screen you have ducked around a corner.

I find I need to lead a lot more and rely heavily on hit sounds.  I favour the rocket launcher since it does area damage allowing for more error in my guessing where the player is going to be.  Camping with the railgun can be effective if your opponents don't zigzag randomly.
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kr3am
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Kitty at work


« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2008, 05:49:31 PM »

Thanks again, guys i will take on your advice, i too live in Australia and i guess i will just have to live with the ping times.
i played again last night and did a lot better because i had already started to get used to compensating for the latency.
If anyone else has any tips i would greatly appreciate them.
cheers.
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andrewj
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2008, 06:31:09 PM »

Another Aussie here, and same thing with me: ping is rarely under 300.  So I prefer CTF games which are more relaxed.  With deathmatch games where everyone else has a low ping (like 50) then it feels unfair, being at a disadvantage, and I don't stay for long, though I've had a few fun games where everyone was pinging between 100-300 so everyone was at a disadvantage.

I haven't seen the Australian server (Telstra's GameArena i think) appear very often, about twice in the last two months, which is a shame as low ping games with real people are so much better.

BTW spectating is not spying or cheating, it's a standard part of the game, anybody can watch anybody else.
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kr3am
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 01:21:09 AM »

When i start up the game and get the server list i see two with low latency.
Gamearena Open Arena ping 56
Secluded Deathmatch ping 188
These would be ideal but so far there are never any players.
Maybe these servers could add some bots to get them going, i don't mind fragging bots while waiting for someone else to join in.
At least it could get people to take a look see.
Also it seems to me that the servers where the action is mostly have bots as well.
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andrewj
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 03:40:08 AM »

Ahh that explains why GameArena never showed up, I had "ShowEmpty" turned off!

I'll pop in and hang around more often in the future, though it would be better to have some bots to play against while you wait (which get kicked when real player enter).

Most servers have bots for this reason, but some are excessive (I've seen 12 on one!).
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ecru
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2008, 08:04:08 PM »

Do you want to nominate a time to try and meet on the server?  Anytime after dark is usually fine with me.
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andrewj
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2008, 10:20:29 PM »

How does 9:30pm sound?
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escapedturkey
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 03:31:56 AM »

cg_fov 120 is great - especially if you run in windowed mode. It provides a sort of peripheral vision. Being able to change FOV is a must. Smiley
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misantropia
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 02:37:58 PM »

I've been contemplating ideas for server cvars such as sv_maxmip and sv_allowVertex and sv_maxfov for more 'forced fairness' servers to be run and kicking out players with inappropriate cvar values automatically.
The best way to chase away players, forcing upon others your opinion of what is right and what is wrong.
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Crash!!!
Half-Nub


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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2008, 02:49:50 PM »

look you can't force fov on players ....an example would be myself who runs on a widescreen and fov 90 looks really messed up on my screen it makes everything look stretched out. A fov of 120 is best because the natural human field of view is also 120 degrees.
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fromhell
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2008, 04:02:09 PM »

I've been contemplating ideas for server cvars such as sv_maxmip and sv_allowVertex and sv_maxfov for more 'forced fairness' servers to be run and kicking out players with inappropriate cvar values automatically.
The best way to chase away cheaters
fixed
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
misantropia
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2008, 04:34:24 PM »

It's open source, for God's sake. What's to stop the persistant cheater from hacking the source to his hearts desire?

I'll answer that question for you: nothing. Limitations like that are only going to annoy the legitimate player base.
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fromhell
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2008, 04:40:02 PM »

It's open source, for God's sake. What's to stop the persistant cheater from hacking the source to his hearts desire?

I'll answer that question for you: nothing. Limitations like that are only going to annoy the legitimate player base.

where did i mention the cvars are cheat protected and engine enforced?
you mean it's anti-choice for a server to define the playable limits the player must play at?
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
escapedturkey
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2008, 04:42:36 PM »

This all stuff that should be done via an admin mod, not the primary game. Limiting clientside options for graphics and such, well, typically it just annoys people and invites someone to hack it up via the source code.

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ecru
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2008, 04:20:02 PM »

I've lodged a ticket with Gamearena to get a few bots added.  Give one person something to do, and provide a bit more variety if there are only a couple of players.
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kr3am
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Kitty at work


« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2008, 02:22:06 AM »

Thanks ecru, you rock.
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andrewj
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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2008, 02:51:47 AM »

Yeah that'll be much better.

A workaround for the server hanging after OA_RPG3DM2 is something like this (though it doesn't work after the server has hanged)
Code:
/callvote map aggressor

That is also good if we want to play some CTF sometime.
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