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Author Topic: oa_dm1 modifications  (Read 19771 times)
kit89
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« on: August 09, 2009, 06:42:07 pm »

I thought I'd take a look at oa_dm1 and see if I can try and improve the overall quality & performance of the map.

I've made a variety of aesthetic changes & improved the performance greatly. Though keeping the same structure & layout.
I'm planning on adding in more details around this map, as in my opinion it is very bland.









r_speeds:
min: 2000
average: 3000-5000
max: 7000

Criticism welcomed. Smiley
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 07:52:57 pm »

Hey, I was doing that one. Tongue
What about working together? Smiley
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kit89
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 12:54:31 am »

Hey, I was doing that one. Tongue
What about working together? Smiley

Woops, I never noticed... Sure a collaboration would be good. Smiley
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kit89
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 04:15:18 am »

Forgot to post the modified source file.

So here it is with the latest modifications.
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Udi
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 05:22:31 am »

Collaboration is a great idea, here are my thoughts about the two version:

Neon Knight (z-oa-dm1-a1.pk3):
The whole map is scaled, which eliminates any claustrophobic feelings. But because of the increased sizes some gaps cannot be made with strafe jumps, so the quad door had to be removed and the bridge by the stairs is built in. There's a railgun which can come handy in the large rooms. All these change the gameplay of the map and it ends up to be just like the modified oa_dm5. Some ceilings are open and you can see the blue sky which is also nice, but the bigger rooms look more empty than ever before. The extra megahealth room is also a nice addition.

kit89 (zoa-dm1.pk3):
The map isn't resized, which keeps the gameplay fast. The quad door is locked, which forces the players to jump, and also the lava pit can be deadly without good jumps. A lot of details were put into the map, it is less boring. The electrical ceiling light over the stairs is a bad idea, there are torches all over the place, please keep the map oldschool. (Just noticed that the electrical light is in the original too :\)

My wish from this collaboration is:
 - keep the map in its original size, or you should only increase the ceiling
 - open up the ceiling in some places so the sky can be viewed (maybe another skybox than the blue one), it helps adding visual variation and also helps with the low ceiling
 - close down the quad door, and keep the lava and bridge mechanism so good jumpers have their fun
 - add a small room like Neon Knight did with the megahealth.

And kit89, you have a z-fighting issue on the former quad door (dunno if thats the right name for that bug):
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 07:13:13 am »

Udi, dm1-a1 was an older version, I thought I've updated it... or maybe I forgot to change the link... the newer is this: http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/published/reworks/oa_dm1v2-a3.zip
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 11:11:59 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Udi
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 11:25:07 am »

Thanks for the newer version, I've checked it. I still prefer the original size, did you scaled it 1.5 times bigger like the others? Could you make a 1.2 or 1.3 scale? In the original even the bots can do the jump to the quad, maybe it's not enough challenging so a little scale won't harm Smiley. I don't like that you removed the cage in the basement, the map ended up being just another maze without any obstacles or special "traps".

I discovered that you opened up too many ceilings. For example the altar:

The altar is pretty bloody, it is the scene of sick rituals, I don't think it should be opened from above. There are things happening which should stay between the walls Smiley. And if there's no roof, why do they need windows? And as for the windows, they are glowing, light is coming through them, a brighter sky should be more fitting, maybe the sky used in oa_shouse?

Another interesting roof omittion is at the rail/nail gun part:

There's no roof above the basement and balkons. You go in trough the door, there's ceiling, you take 6-7 footsteps another door and no ceiling again. Strange structure. I have the following idea, or concept:


Basically the whole map is a house. The sky is only visible above the frontyard, and stairs. The frontyard is pretty obvious, it's an open garden etc., and at the stairs (especially if scaled) you need something visually interesting (fast moving clouds from the oa_shouse are pretty). And if you keep the lava (please do it) the smoke should go to somewhere Smiley.

The frontyard could be an inner yard seen in some medeaval buildings. It has columns, and roof around it. If we name that room the frontyard than you could add a huge closed door to the hallway behind it, just like in CE1M7 (House of Cheethon) map. Maybe some more windows, or a small wall and some other columns upon it, so a nice background can be viewed. Nothing fency, maybe some montains. and houses. I am always blown away by the scene which can be seen over the brick wall on oa_dm5. Every small eye candy is needed because that hallways are the most boring ones in the map:


The same brown textures all over the place. Place doors, windows, torches, whatever.

And as for my last tip: there's plenty of space in the plasmagun room to place something in the middle. Maybe a Liz statue will do the trick. I think the lizard would fit well to the bloody altar Smiley. Maybe some grass or sand on the frontyard floor?


Edit: and some broken tiles on the basement floor? Maybe right under the hole to indicate some strange things happen here. Maybe even water in the broken tiles?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 11:47:29 am by Udi » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 12:41:22 pm »

I didn't changed any texture from the original (0.8.1) oa_dm1 in fact. Just the size of the map and the entity placement, and removed some of the stuff. In earlier versions I retained the bars going to the teleporter. The only texture changes I've made were to remove unseen faces.

In the room of the last screenshot I've put a Domination point, (dm1v2 has that support, 3 points) but the Liz statue can be a good one. In fact I begun to think in things which can be used to cover, like statues, some knight armors. (?) OA needs mapobjects. :/
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Udi
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 03:05:30 pm »

I didn't changed any texture from the original (0.8.1) oa_dm1 in fact.

Yes, I know. I didn't want to blame you, just wanted to give some ideas for the most active mapper of the community Smiley.
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kit89
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 03:18:51 pm »

The door way that was blocked going to the Quad damage, was an accident... The brush was slightly over extended..
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 04:32:42 pm »

I'll be doing small changes, just a bit of them.
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kit89
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 03:12:41 pm »

- Vast amount of modifications.

http://linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoadm1.pk3
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Udi
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 03:55:15 pm »

- Vast amount of modifications.

Wow, beautiful Cheesy! I like the new structure and textures a lot! I only gave it a fast run before going to sleep, the item placement can be discussed later, but I think the concept should be kept as it is now.

There's a small glitch above the megahealth hole:


Is the skylight meant to be look like this, or it is my config:

Maybe it's too intensive for a moonlight. Above the Liz statue it looks great, I like the contrast between the blue frontyard and the red altar, it's brilliant.

A lot of thanks and congrats for the work Wink!
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 10:26:34 pm »

Cheesy

Kit, I've noticed that you've included the .map file I've sent to you via PM and not the one which corresponds to the map you've uploaded. This one has no ammo, something I couldn't do, since I wanted to redistribute both ammo, armor and health throughout the level. I thought you've done that. Also the walls... they could look great with some improvements to make them look less flat, for example pushing the trims a bit outside of the walls and adding some other stuff, I don't know.
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kit89
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 04:15:01 am »

My mistake. I keep forgetting to update the source file.

I was thinking of pushing out the trim... But with the addition of the trim as it is, it's now starting to affect performance. With some more hinting this could probably be resolved though...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2009, 09:35:31 am »

Or maybe deleting all the hints, hiding the entities, caulking the entire map & simplyfing the brushes, and start again, by creating detail brushes for the visual part. That would help VIS a lot and was what I've done with blitzkrieg3 and mckinleyish2. In this map should be possible to do that. I'll do that this weekend. But I'll need the latest .map file for that. Cheesy
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kit89
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2009, 01:29:34 pm »

The brush work of the map isn't that bad. The main problem is the maps layout in general.

All the rooms can pretty much see into each other... Even with the use of hint brushes, it is still possible to see a vast majority of another area.
To resolve that I decided to add in doors and use areaportals to prevent it from rendering anything beyond.

http://linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoadm1_2.pk3
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Udi
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 03:22:12 pm »

To resolve that I decided to add in doors and use areaportals to prevent it from rendering anything beyond.

NO, please don't Sad! Too much doors, too much noise when you open them, it will drive players crazy. It changes the gameplay too much, it introduces new ways of camping: door camping Smiley : the doors only open when you go near them, not if you hit them with bullets. Some of the weapons are only available in a special room, one can easily camp in a powerful room, no matter if the place is accessible from two ways, you can hear which door is opened. Especially the statue and quad room with the shotgun and rocket launcher+ammo next to it. The invisibility is useless too, the doors will give your position away.

And the areaportals introduces new bugs: if you open a door, but while it's open you step back, some objects disappear.

Red armor door disappears:


Statue door disappears viewing from the stairs:


And statue door overlaps the built-in window:


So please don't do it! Remember: in a free world without walls who needs Windows and Gates Cheesy!

But seriously, with the previous version I only noticed fps drop when I looked up from the basement through the altar hole and through the window which is in front of the altar. And also the rocket goes through those net covered windows, just like on Suspended. Is it a bug or feature? Maybe if you would only make those windows wall again, would that be enough for rendering improvements? And in the basement room, there are small ramps next to the walls, which influence the physics too, if you run against the wall, it makes the character go high. Does that influence the performance?

As for the item placement: there are no weapons in the basement, but there are all the health. Maybe it can result in an up-and-down player rotation, but I think it only creates a massacre, the injured players are shot down from above while trying to collect health . There are too much armor shard behind the iron bars, you can collect there 9 shards, and behind the portal a gold armor is waiting for you. Too easy. Please substitute the grenade launcher in the altar room. On the public servers there is always someone who just drops grandes blindly trough that hole and now the players can sit on the weapon spawn point, and while standing on that point he/she faces the door, which in the latest version alarms him/her with a noise Smiley. The invisibility is now on a perfect place, harder to reach, good idea! Could you make the same with the red armor? You know removing that hidden door, which opens when you shoot on it. The jump on the ledges is not that hard, even some bots do it (Kyonshi for sure). The hallways through the basement, leading to the stairs are empty and boring, noone will stroll on them, there's nothing to pick up there. Except for a plasmagun, but who cares if there are two shotguns on the map, a lightning gun just a few steps from the stairs and three lightning ammos (two of them next to each other) in the other direction? I don't know if the railgun can be handy at all, maybe covering the stairs, but if this map is in the first tear in the next single player campaign too, than maybe it's better not to introduce all the weapons for the newbies.

Sorry for the last long paragraph, but it's important that the map doesn't get bad gameplay now when its looks astonishing Wink.
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kit89
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 06:17:29 pm »

- Removed all doors
- Removed 2 LG ammo
- Moved LG ammo, near plasma gun.
- Moved YA, to where 2 LG ammo was.
- Removed a vast amount of armour shards.
- Removed the hidden door to RA.
-Swapped shotgun & grenade launcher around.

http://linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoadm1_3.pk3

- This version also supplies the latest source file (.map only).
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Udi
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2009, 12:55:00 am »


Looks great, plays great Cheesy! Thanks a lot!

I played it with the original and brainworks bots, putting the map on a beta maps server could gather more reliable gaming experiences, but so far I noticed the following:

  • all the health is downstairs, which keeps players coming. A good player can successfully defend himself until the megahealth respawns, there's grenade and rocket ammo in there, which will help the player dominate and with a rocketjump he/she can reach the red armor, or the railgun and come back to be king of the hill. It's the largest room, it is logical to concentrate players there, but there are other places to explore and fight for.
  • the yellow and red armor are too close to each other, place the YA inside the hallway going to the stairs on the upper level so a player can see it when he faces the birdge. Probably it will tempt the players to go there.
  • place the rocket ammo behind the statue to where the YA armor was. Place the another rocket ammo from the basement to the plasmagun room and place a machinegun ammo to its former place.
  • the rocket launcher and grenade launcher are too close to each other, maybe it's not a problem, but I felt weird when I saw the two splash damage guns so close to each other. Place the GL to where the lightning gun is. The LG has to be placed elsewhere too, if you pick up the railgun and fall down to the LG, pro players can instantly play tricks on new players: keeping the LG on the target, shooting him 1 or 2 sec, which makes sure his health falls under 100, then the attacker changes to RG while still pushing the mousebutton and crosshair is on prey = instant death. Place the LG into the altar where the shotgun is, and place that shotgun to where the GL was.
  • place some small pickups into the hallway next to the railgun (not where you jump to the RA, but a corner further, maybe 4 or 5 armor shards or +5 health if you want to break the 'nursery downstairs' rule. That hallway is never used, I myself always make a circlejump to the railgun, so I skip it. But if there's something worth to pick up there, I will definetly stop making shortcuts.
  • some small (3 or 4) strings of armor shards and +5 healthes next to the walls would force players fidgeting around, more chance to make a fight elsewhere. It increases gameplay variety, instead of 'just collect the weapons, and go down into the basement for some fun'.
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kit89
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2009, 03:29:19 am »

- Made Udi weapon, ammo modifications.

http://linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoadm1_4.pk3
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Udi
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2009, 05:07:38 am »


Thanks a lot Cheesy! I think it's perfect now, there's always some action everywhere. I'm more than satisfied with the new map, I think it should go to the SVN, but maybe we should wait for other players suggestions.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 11:10:06 am »

kit, I'll make some changes into the map. I'll send you a PM with the .map file.
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2011, 02:57:12 pm »

 Rest In PEACE! Repositori linux Mods  Huh
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2011, 04:56:03 pm »

Rest In PEACE! Repositori linux Mods  Huh

Hmm... couscous frites merguez taboulé ?
Ask Gig.

All OpenArena Mods work on Windows, Linux, Mac at the same time, you don't need to get a Linux specific version.
If you want a repository, check this: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/ModCompat and this: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mods

You won't find OpenArena Mods in official repositories of your Linux distribution (Ubuntu, etc ...), they usually don't have them.
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