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Author Topic: OpenArena on id Tech 4  (Read 29343 times)
faoa
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« on: March 21, 2010, 08:35:16 am »

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_4#History), John Carmack plans to release the id Tech 4 under GPL *somewhere* this year (depends on the release of Rage).

So I was wondering if there are any (probably long-term) future plans/ ideas for OA on id Tech 4?

just-doing-some-daydreaming faoa ...
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0kelvin
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 11:11:08 am »

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fromhell
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 04:27:06 am »

well, you can always try to slip glsl in the rendering path and fake things. OA on idtech4 would have no compatibility with anything, it'd be better to have that nextgen OA on darkplaces for uh, oa compatibility.
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befno
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 03:05:21 pm »

Would a MP only "Open Quake 4" type of game be in order for this, then? And would it be possible, efforts speaking?
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fromhell
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 03:16:40 pm »

Only if Raven had released GPLed Quake4 code and its script. Fortunately there might be a chance of that 10 years from now since it's in id's repository, rather than the private raid array at Raven where things rot to death.

Honestly, I think Darkplaces would be a better choice for this not only for the nextgenness... but the physics! Quake4 had awful player physics that felt ball and chain.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
befno
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 03:22:08 pm »

 Grin I didnt think Q4 had such crappy physics, but oh well. Smiley   Darkplaces, hmm, yeah I've read it's really good.  I dont know, is it better than Xreal? Xreal has support for id tech 4 files.  Smiley
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fromhell
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 03:35:24 pm »

I dont know, is it better than Xreal? Xreal has support for id tech 4 files.  Smiley
Yes.  It also supports IQM model format which already makes idtech 4's md5 files obsolete.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
befno
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 04:52:27 pm »

Ah really.  Awesome.  Need to read up on new file formats, dont know much since the md5 q4 ones.  Smiley BTW, did you think the other id tech 4 games had the same crappy physics as q4?
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fromhell
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 05:05:07 pm »

Prey and Doom3 feel similar. Quake Wars had better physics than both of those.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
befno
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 09:22:33 pm »

Ah, this is all good info, thank you.  I dont know much about Darkplaces and its formats, how are they better than MD5? I didnt know MD5 was outdated already.
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testman
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2011, 09:51:55 am »

OK, ID Tech 4 is opensourced under GPL and ready to be abused. Cheesy

So, OpenArena with ID Tech 4?
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Gig
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2011, 10:01:39 am »

Incompatible license.  Sad
Id Tech 4 has been released under GPLv3. All OpenArena stuff is under GPLv2.

More, probably a complete engine conversion would have had major compatibility problems (e.g. how to keep q3 mods working?), I suppose. But Sago007 and Fromhell sure can answer much better than me.
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2011, 11:06:31 pm »

Id Tech 4 has been released under GPLv3. All OpenArena stuff is under GPLv2.
The engine and data can be separate parts, Engine GPLv3, Data GPLv2 -- there are numerous games out there with a more restrictive setup using a GPL'd engine and closed/proprietry data.

Q3 mod compability would have to be abandoned though -- just a minor reason why an OA on idtech4 ain't gonna happen (the major one being the huge amount of work it would take to adapt everything to a new engine).
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VortexHU
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 11:32:55 am »

Incompatible license.  Sad
Id Tech 4 has been released under GPLv3. All OpenArena stuff is under GPLv2.

More, probably a complete engine conversion would have had major compatibility problems (e.g. how to keep q3 mods working?), I suppose. But Sago007 and Fromhell sure can answer much better than me.

Quote from: Standard GPL 2.0 copyright notice
    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.


so all the content can be kept as gpl2 and distributed under gpl3 at each release/patch or just considered gpl3, which is one of the licenses under which redistribution is permitted by the above notice.
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 12:01:43 pm »

jep: each content of gpl2 stuff is compatible with gpl3 but not back.
if oa likes, it could switch to gpl3.
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andrewj
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 09:49:52 pm »

jep: each content of gpl2 stuff is compatible with gpl3
Only if the GPLv2 license says "or any later version".

I think OpenArea stuff is under "GPLv2 only" and hence you cannot just upgrade it to GPLv3.  They are incompatible licenses, because GPLv2-only disallows additional restrictions but the GPLv3 contains extra restrictions (the "v3" stuff).
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 06:41:32 am »

Agree, but the GPL2 contains any later version of the GPL (see extract above).
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 07:02:04 am »

Strange that Fromhell has not said anything here yet. Anyway, in another thread:
Doom3's path is mostly arb mess, it isn't exactly portable.

Besides, no GLSL in Doom3 anyway, and it's gplv3 anyway. It's useless to OA.

If OA were to get bumpmapping, it'd be using deluxemapping on the OA maps (q3map2 for nexuiz did that), using GLSL shaders to render textures bumped, reading from lightgrids for them...

By the way the Doom3 MD5 model format sucks, it doesn't have precalculated normals, which means it'll be shaded badly full of seams if brought to OA.      OA already supports MDR which doesn't have this problem and would technically be most suitable, but again, chicken egg problem - no MDR Blender exporter.

For what I can think:
- One of OpenArena aims was to keep most of Q3 gameplay, so Doom3 physics and weapons should be tweaked to make them similar to Quake 3?
- Q3 stuff compatibilty was another aim of OpenArena... that would be completely lost.
- It would be a mess for low-end hardware users. I haven't tried Doom3 on my machine, but considering my poor FPS performances with OpenArena...
- How many DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO]NOTTODO items would it break?
- To sum up... that would not simply be an OpenArena upgrade... I feel it would be a different game, with re-used OpenArena stuff.
Maybe a fork? But dividing the community into maintaing two different project would be almost impossible, considering how few "real" developers we have.
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 07:04:07 am »

It's up to the author whether or not to use the "or any later clause" of GPL. Quake3 uses it, just look at a random source file header.
Quote from: code/qcommon/q_shared.h
Quake III Arena source code is free software; you can redistribute it
and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as
published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License,
or (at your option) any later version.

Don't know about OA's game assets.
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 08:48:12 am »

Hey u copied my thread... anyways no difference if u use md5 or iqm does same things...

U CAN FIND ENGINE HERE: http://www.iodoom3.org/

i know i know it isnt idtech4 (couldnt find it) but its the closest i could get
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grey matter
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2012, 12:28:11 pm »

ioquake3 (the engine OA currently uses) has support for IQM as well.
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 12:57:22 pm »

i know i know it isnt idtech4 (couldnt find it) but its the closest i could get
Doom 3 and Quake 4 use idtech4. :-)
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fromhell
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2012, 02:49:29 pm »

anyways no difference if u use md5 or iqm does same things...

normals


ioquake3 (the engine OA currently uses) has support for IQM as well.
I've mentioned that its IQM support is quite broken enough. Every IQM I tried crashes or has the strangest deformation errors, yet works and looks okay in other engines...
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
grey matter
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2012, 03:35:53 pm »

I've mentioned that its IQM support is quite broken enough. Every IQM I tried crashes or has the strangest deformation errors, yet works and looks okay in other engines...

I've mentioned that ioquake3 has a bugtracker. OA on the other hand doesn't, should I thus give a damn about bugs and tell no one?
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testman
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 01:02:53 pm »


OK, as you have all pointed out, license and NOT-TO-DO list restrict that OpenArena would go ID Tech 4.
All valid points.

But, is there any way that idea of OpenArena running on ID Tech 4 engine would be implemented?
Make OpenArena 2 that runs on it?

Also, three things:
  • Do any of you know of any open source game that uses / is going to use ID Tech 4?
  • Steam is coming on Linux, games along with it. They are not going to be open, but will run on Linux.
    Will there still be need and/or interest for games like OpenArena?
  • Steam made thing named Greenlight where community can choose which games they would like to see on Steam. Could OpenArena go among those that community can choose from?
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