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Author Topic: [Idea] Possession gametype  (Read 20257 times)
Neon_Knight
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« on: November 15, 2010, 12:05:21 pm »

It's a gametype from the PS2 version of Q3A.
The objective is to retain the white flag in X minutes.
There's also a timelimit, in which the players must accomplish the objective.

It can be seen with more detail in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIUSlxSRvRY#t=1m15s
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 12:41:29 pm by |TXC| Neon_Knight » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 12:41:16 pm »

i think that could be fun - but looking at that video using the controls for ps2 seems like a punishment Cheesy
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 01:11:22 pm »

Agreed, it could be fun! OA could use a new non-team gametype.
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Gig
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 03:24:05 pm »

It could be nice... I vote yes! :-)

The base idea remembers the Catch the Chicken mod, but this is different because when you hold the flag, you can defend yourself shooting at usual.

Does Q3 Revolution source code have been released under GPLv2? I've never heard about this. Anyway, I hope this gametype to not be too difficult to implement from scratch (but let's wait for Sago).

An idea: it would need maps with a white flag (like for One Flag Capture)... but probably at the moment very few maps do not remove that flag if the gametype is not One Flag Capture... so maybe in "Possession" we could make the white flag spawn at a random spawn point each time (if no neutral flag entity has been set for the new gametype)... this way, the gametype would immediately work on any FFA map!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 03:14:09 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 05:31:56 pm »

I remember adding Catch the Chicken to OA was proposed a few years ago, but nothing really came of it.

I think either of these gametypes would be fun.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 06:17:43 pm »

Q3 Revolution is a port created by EA, so I guess the answer is no. :/

It's possible also to add the flag manually via entity edit.
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 08:05:32 pm »

Does Q3 Revolution source code have been released under GPLv2?

No, and due to the Sony development kits usage rights you can not GPL it anyway. Name 1 open-source PS2 game - YOU CAN'T!!!

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Gig
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 03:33:36 am »

"Catch the chicken" gametype has not been implemented (at least, yet)... but there is already a mod that does it. It looks nice, is funny and and has got some features that would take some time to re-write from scratch. The mod could simply be better supported by the next OpenArena version by creating/fixing the shader that is used for the "golden egg" (that contains a powerup).

I think "Possession" may be created first, for various reasons:
- It seems very more easy to create: no new models, no new weapons, less rules than in ctc.
- I don't know of any mod that allows to play it (if it exists, please tell me). At the moment, or you buy Q3 Revolution (and the console), or you can't play it.
- Its "look" would fit better on the overall look: holding a flag seems more serious than chasing a chicken...
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2010, 01:32:49 pm »

Instead of implementing new game types i would prefer some type of generic items, usuable in the radiant.
To be honest: q3s item system is not as good as it seems to be.
If you had a more generic approach, mappers could implement many different game types without a code modification.
Maybe item configuration through key/value pairs could solve it. Never thought about it, but if you are honest, you just need two gametypes: singleplayer and teamgames. all the other stuff (ffa, koth, ctf, elimination, domination, dd, 1flagctf...) could be done with item parameters.

Maybe the items flag, goal and trigger are a hook to realize it?
flags can be carried by blue, red or both.
they return after x seconds after drop.
goals can be activated by blue, red or both players - if they are touched by a player or a flag.
....

Just an idea Cheesy
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Gig
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 01:43:49 pm »

Hey... it's seems that Q3 Revolution is a bit more worth of taking a look than I thought before...
- Quake 3 Revolution PS2 review
- Quake 3 Revolution PS2 screenshots
- Quake 3 Revolution PS2 videos
- Another review

Reading the last link, here's the list of the available modes in Q3R:
- Deathmatch (we already have this)
- Team Deathmatch (we already have this)
- Single Weapon Deathmatch
- Single Weapon Team Deathmatch
- 1 Flag Capture The Flag (we already have this)
- Capture The Flag (we already have this)
- Team Possession
- Possession

Update: in this video it appears also an "Elimination" gametype, that seems similar to our "Last man standing" gametype (with players with multiple lives -and you are informed about the remaining lives of who you just killed-), with the difference that there is standard item collecting, there (instead of "clan arena style" full load like ours).

----------------------------------------------------
@Peter: about making something new without having to create a new gametype, through time I've written down some ideas. Some "simply" involving options available to the server administrators, mixing them to create particular gaming styles, and some others are suggestions to the mappers about creating maps that differ from the classic ctf-mirror style, to allow something more or less "different".

To read about what I'm saying...

Suggestions for server admins:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Configuration_examples

Suggestions for map creators:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Capture_the_flag
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Harvester
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Elimination_and_CTF_Elimination --> http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Elimination#Map_styles

If it is possible to use the map editor to create something similar to "Possession", good (if you know how, please tell me)... anyway this gametype seems (I say "seems" because at the moment I can't try it, not having Q3R... maybe I may find a copy of it in some store...) worth of having its own gametype, and to play it in any existing OpenArena map...

PS: Probably also a "team possession" mode would be good, but I feel that having a new "solo" mode is more urgent: at the moment we do not have any "solo" gametype where you have to interact with an item instead of simply frag and avoid to be fragged.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 10:16:23 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 02:38:00 pm »

The most important thing about implementing a new gametype is to be able to support it and follow it. I already have more things than I can support and that is why I will not take the challange of implementing a new gametype. However if someone wants to try to implement it they should be wa. Here are the basis for implementing a new gametype:

1. Add GT_POSSESSION in game/bg_public.h after GT_DOMINATION
2. Near the line with "set FFA status for high gametypes", set GT_POSSESSION as a free for all gametype
3. Likewise in cgame/cg_servercmds.c in CG_ParseServerinfo.
4. Add "pos" to the arrays "gametypeNames" in game/g_spawn.c and game/ai_dmq3.c
5. Make a function in game/g_team.c that spawns a whiteflag at one of the domination_point entities. If map does not have the domination_point entity spawn at a player spawn instead.
6. The whiteflag must be a pickable item. Look at ordinary flags.
7. You need to make the white flag spawn in some way and respawn if it lands in a nodrop zone, it is not picked up for 30 seconds or carrier leaves in some way. There are multiple solutions to this problem. One might copy the way the flags in CTF are handled, just be careful: A little mistake and the white flag might be gone forever.
8. Add to ClientTimerActions in game/g_action.c to give a point to the flag holder every second.
9. UI enhancement to make it work in a nice way (this is 50-75% of the work but can be postponed until one knows it works)
10. Support it

that is the basis one might consider a distance meter that shows distance to flag/flagcarrier so that it can be tracked down.
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 06:38:05 am »

holding a flag seems more serious than chasing a chicken...

Surely this won't look foul if we hatch some sort of 'platinum egg laying' plot to it, they're flocking crazily for a reason.


p.s. I think it should be a duck
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 08:24:17 am »

But for Posession, no new models need to be created. There's only the white flag.
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2011, 10:04:21 am »

but white flags don't quack
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Gig
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2011, 03:49:01 pm »

Side note: I created the Q3 Revolution page on the wiki.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Q3A/Quake_III_Revolution
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 10:38:20 am »

Maybe Sago is going to do Possession:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=5264.msg53927#msg53927

Hence, some thoughts:
* Sago mentioned to make the white flag spawn at Dom points. So I told him: don't forget to make the white flag spawn in other kinds of spawn points (team spawn points and/or ffa spawn points) in case it does not find a DOM point. This mode should work with all maps!
** I don't even know if it should check for dom/flag spawn points first or if it should directly go for team/ffa spawn points. I don't know.
* Do you think it should automatically change spawn point in case noone finds it in some time? I mean, surely after some time it has been dropped, but do you think also after some time it spawned (a longer time maybe)?
* I don't remember if Q3R had it, however maybe some sort of indicator which tells you if you are going closer or farther than the flag could be useful. It could be text, graphics or audio beep (like the beep in "save the universe" mode of "Hunt" Q3 mod), but I suppose a flag distance indicator in game units may be the simper one to do and should work well and would work also for who keeps his sound volume off.
* I don't even remember if Q3R Possession had a key to drop the flag or not. Probably not, but I'm not really sure. However, other flag-based baseoa modes do not have it, so it may feel strange if only one had (everyone or noone, right?).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 01:35:03 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 03:58:04 pm »

Thinking about it again, maybe you're right, it may use dom points if available (in that case, players would have from 1 to 6 palces to check depending from the map). So, dom points, then ffa player points, then team player points?

And for players, search for ffa spawn points first and then team spawn points? I suppose it's useful to consider that there are some maps which have team points only and no ffa points (which is bad, but some may be. Also, in case there is some other gametype which does not have the fallback to team spawn points in case of lack of ffa spawn points, it may be the chance to fix it. Let's try to avoid chances of game crashes due to poor mapping.).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 04:02:06 pm by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 04:56:19 pm »

There should be also the option for the mappers themselves to put the flag at some point of the map.
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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2016, 01:20:23 am »

Hey guys (and gals): Sago implemented Possession on Github!  Smiley Smiley Smiley

Let's grab the latest OAX test mod nightly build from here and let's test it!!!!

(Please specify the "date" of the OAX gamecode build you are using, when posting the feedback. This should make things a bit easier to Sago.)

UPDATE (2016-07-27): It looks like some features have not been implemented yet. Maybe it's better to wait for a few more days before providing more feedback.
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« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2016, 02:53:40 am »

First tests (gamecode v. 2016-07-26):
Cool gametype! Thank you, Sago!  :)

However:
1) It looks like the flag chooses a spawn point at the beginning of the match, and then spawns always there every time, for the whole match.
2) Console says like "Jenna fragged FREE's flag carrier!". I suppose that "FREE" could be omitted, as there are no teams.
3) Also, if you commit suicide with a weapon or by cratering, the console does not mention the flag carrier is dead (mentions your name, but does not say about the flag). If you use "/kill", instead, it writes "the flag has returned" (in that case, the flag actually respawns at spawn point, is not dropped where you died)
4) Console does not say who just grabbed the flag.
5) Do you plan to add "X has the flag!" big text on screen when someone is holding it, like "Red has the flag!/Flag dropped!" in one-flag-ctf mode? (Maybe that could be used in the place of 3) and 4).. maybe it's how other ctf-based modes work.)
6) Do you plan to play "You have the flag" sound when you grab it?
7) If I die when holding the flag, the score board still indicates me as flag holder, unless I press TAB key. (In one-flag-ctf mode, instead, the flag icon disappears in less than a second.) PS: Now that I check, also scores aren't updated in the score table if I don't press tab.
8) I see the GUI shows the same maps as Free For All available for Possession. Is this just is a temporary thing due to not having possession maps listed in arenas.txt, or do you plan to keep it this way? Also, what's about g_autonextmap and possession? I can guess also g_mappools default value will need to be updated...
9) ONCE I noticed this in console output at map loading "G_PickTarget called with NULL targetname" (it was just above "loaded cached skill 2.0 from bots/sergei_c.c")... but I don't remember on which map I was... maybe it's not related with Possession at all?
10) I don't remember... is the flag supposed to spawn in another place in case it spawned at a spawn point and no-one grabbed it after a certain time (maybe longer than the time it respawns after being dropped)? It does not seem to do to it (maybe related to point 1 of this list?), but maybe this is intentional. But in case of a spawn point located in a secret or hardly reachable area (see screenshot attached), or in an "initial" room not accessible afterwards (like q3dm0 initial room)? In case it changes spawn point because noone grabs it, I can guess a text in console output may be useful, to let people know it could now be in places they already visited.
11) I noticed you used fraglimit instead of capturelimit. I can guess it may be okay.
12) Considering in theory the flag should spawn at different locations (right?), maybe "The flag has returned" may be changed with "The flag has respawned" for this mode?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 04:29:34 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 04:04:56 am »

I believe in the release early, release often.
Things that I have not gotten around to:
The spawn place chooser (that are executed only once) is not complete. It was improved slightly in the last commit but it does not work as intended. I am not sure if I can move the spawn place without causing the bots to freak out.
No radar. The broadcast flag properly needs to be set on the white flag/flag carrier for this to work.
Only basic classic UI done.
No bot support. The bots play as if it was deathmatch.

The idea of the spawn place chooser is:
Pick a random white flag spawn if it exist. (does not work)
Pick a random domination point if it exist
Pick a random info_player_start if it exist
Pick the first entity in the game

The UI currently just selects all ffa maps. I am not happy about adding more to the arenas.txt file. I might look for an alternative solution.

@gig
About your points.
1. I know. It is because it is the flag base that are placed and the base is placed only once. I did not realize that the flag worked that they until I started implementing. I will make the locations chooser choose a better location but I'll not move the spawn point around.
2. It will be changed. No notifications have been done and no log either. I deliberately do this as the last thing because it can be a never ending task otherwise.
3. Like 2. I do this at the end.
4. Like 2.
5. Could be an idea. I noticed that I did not always know if the flag was picked or not.
6. Seems like a reasonable idea. But it will be one of the last things I do.
7. I did notice but I had not noticed that 1fctf worked differently.
8. I'll add a separate file for g_autonextmap. I think I'll make it a separate project. I want to be able to make the arenas.txt file smaller.
9. It does not sound like it is related but if you can reproduce it, it may be worth looking into nevertheless.
10. It was not my intention. The idea is to spawn the flag as central as possible.
11. I almost used capture limit instead. The code failed to work at one point because I had not made up my mind.
12. I don't plan on moving the flag about. Some maps may have only one base (and I believe that should be the ultimate scenario).
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 04:30:48 am »

*** This was intended as an "update" of my previous post, but since Sago had already replied before I posted the update, I moved this text to a separate post. Now I go reading Sago's answer to previous post. ***

UPDATE: Adding some more points:
13) In the GUI to start the map, when selecting the bots, it shows the button to enable/disable friendly fire. But it should be irrelevant for this gametype, being non-team-based. I know that OA3 will have a completely different GUI and thus what we see here is only temporary, however I list what I notice, you know...
14) Try playing it in am_galmevish2, you spawn in solid. Probably it's an error of the map, not a Possession error. I downloaded the map source from SVN and it looks like there are no spawn points in that place. I fear all spawn points in the map are gametype-limited (I controlled some of them, and they are), while there should be some "free". So I ask, has the OAX gamecode been changed so, instead of closing the server with "couldn't find a spawn point" error, launches the map making everyone spawn at 0, 0, 0 coordinates, in the hope those coordinates are inside the map and not inside solid brushes?
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 04:58:27 am »

I believe in the release early, release often.
Okay... But is it better if I wait for some "ok, test now" from you, before making more tests?

Quote
Things that I have not gotten around to:
No bot support. The bots play as if it was deathmatch.
However, I see them running around with the flag. Maybe you mean they could give higher priority to fragging flag holder over other enemies and collecting the flag over other items? Or that they should try to avoid combat a bit when they have the flag (however, possibly without camping too much, it may be boring)?

Quote
Pick a random info_player_start if it exist
Do you mean both it and info_player_deathmatch, right?

Quote
The UI currently just selects all ffa maps. I am not happy about adding more to the arenas.txt file. I might look for an alternative solution.
Arenas2.txt maybe? To be used with Arenas.txt in an additive way... Just an idea. Could have some backfiring, but maybe...

Quote
8. I'll add a separate file for g_autonextmap. I think I'll make it a separate project. I want to be able to make the arenas.txt file smaller.
Maybe I don't understand everything of this... I mean the relationship between g_autonextmap and arenas.txt... at the moment they are two completely independent features, right?

Quote
9. It does not sound like it is related but if you can reproduce it, it may be worth looking into nevertheless.
I will make a try, but I can't promise anything. UPDATE: Tried a few maps, but I have not been able to reproduce. Sorry.

Quote
10. It was not my intention. The idea is to spawn the flag as central as possible.
I understand, especially if moving the flag could be a problem for bots, as you hinted before. However... while maybe the change from Q3 Revolution's behavior is not a problem by itself, I still have some fear for maps where the flag could spawn in unreachable points... restarting the map could be the only possible workaround.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:44:52 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 06:14:12 am »

Grabbing the latest builds and testing.

Does the map need something special to appear in the UI menu such as "gametype" "possession"?
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2016, 07:00:01 am »

Does the map need something special to appear in the UI menu such as "gametype" "possession"?
At the moment all ffa maps are shown.
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