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MilanFIN
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« on: February 14, 2011, 07:12:33 AM »

I have a problem:
If someone that doesn't have some map needs to download it from my server, It will only give up to 10kb/s to downloading rate, problem in config?
Is this about pure-setting(just guessing)

MilanFIN
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 08:53:49 AM »

Standard download goes only at the speed allowed by "rate" (client) and "sv_maxrate" (server) values, and the maximum is 25000 (bytes per second, I guess). This comes from Quake 3.
To achieve high download speed, the server admin has to setup "http download" (aka "www download"), making the required pk3 files accessible via http or ftp. The files can be stored on another machine, in any public web space. Www download comes from ioquake3.

The wiki does not have an article about that yet, but you can find out how to setup it by reading this thread. Bye!

I suppose there are some reasons for this:
- UDP protocol, that the game uses, may not be reliable for high speeds
- Using another machine to host the high-speed download files may save resources on the game server, and, more important, -if using a different internet connection, like a third-party web host- may save important bandwidth for the match itself.
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 12:27:46 AM »

Do you know any good web hoster then, cause mine doesn't let me download the files straight.
Or is it possible to use ftp, and tell the username and password in server config.
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 06:09:15 AM »

I fear it's not possible to use FTP.

Searching "hebergeur gratuit" on Google found me a few tracks:
http://www.zymic.com/
http://hosting.olikeopen.com/freehosting.php
...
But there are really many (maybe in your own language) if you search a bit.
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 07:12:38 AM »

The ioquake3 improvements page says "Off-server data downloads (http redirection) via HTTP and FTP with cURL".

If there are no variables to set username and password, I suppose that only anonymous FTP would be allowed (some ftp sites allow reading data after logging in with user 'anonymous'). But I never tried it, I don't know.

If someone knows where to find more documentation about the ioquake3's "www download" feature...
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 08:51:29 AM »

Found o working one now.
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 12:52:01 PM »

You can encode a username and a password in an URL:

Code:
ftp://username:password@some.host.com/path/to/file.pk3

http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~watrous/user-pass-url.html
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 05:21:33 PM »

Right... I did not thought to that since I don't see that kind of very unsecure authentication method used in years.

But can somebody confirm that ftp download effectively works with OpenArena? With both anonymous and password-protected ftp servers?
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 02:41:13 PM »

You can encode a username and a password in an URL:

Code:
ftp://username:password@some.host.com/path/to/file.pk3

http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~watrous/user-pass-url.html

Yes, that should work just fine if you set it in server.cfg.  Example:  
Code:
set sv_dlURL "ftp://MilanFIN:PassWord@ftp.arenafinland.tk/maps"


Right... I did not thought to that since I don't see that kind of very unsecure authentication method used in years...

LOL, you're kidding right?  You're worried about unsecure authentication yet you raise no issue about the (underlying) FTP protocol which is incredibly insecure.

Nonetheless, considering the data at risk (mod files, custom maps, etc.,) I wouldn't fault an Admin for using Anonymous FTP if he curtails that account to its directory and use appropriate directory/file security attributes.  Just don't get on the bad side of a hax group like Anonymous.   Grin

As for password protected FTP access, if the intention is to limit some players from using download bandwidth or to prevent hotlinking there are better ways to achieve that.


...But can somebody confirm that ftp download effectively works with OpenArena? With both anonymous and password-protected ftp servers?

Redirects work with http and ftp.  I have not tested with a password protected account but 7's comment is correct and should work fine.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 03:07:33 PM by WaspKiller » Logged



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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2011, 07:14:23 PM »

LOL, you're kidding right?  You're worried about unsecure authentication yet you raise no issue about the (underlying) FTP protocol which is incredibly insecure.

It's true that FTP protocol is unsecure (it does not encrypt anything, included the password, thus it can be easily sniffed).... but at least one has to purposely intercept its packets to get your password. Including the password in the URL, instead, means that it will be clearly logged (stored) in proxy server logs, router logs, ISP logs, theorically allowing many people to know it, even if they were not searching for it.
It is advisable to create a read-only user into the ftp server (different from your usual username/password you use, both there and elsewhere), and be sure it does not have access to confidential files.
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2011, 08:55:32 PM »

Hey, there is something strange...
I'm preparing a guide to setup autodownloading, but some variables mentioned in that thread seem to not exist:
cl_wwwDownload
sv_wwwDownload
sv_wwwDlDisconnected

While sv_dlURL, instead, exists.
To make a try, I tried  "\set cl_wwwDownload 0" to momentarily create the variable and set it in a way it should not use www download... but then I tried to connect to a Defrag server, and the high speed download started.

What's the meaning for this?
The previous thread is from 2007... Is it possible that those three variables have been thought unnecessary and then removed? Is is possible that to setup fast download the server should simply enable the classic "sv_allowdownload 1" and then "sv_dlURL <url>", and the client simpy the old "cl_allowdownload 1" (the client without a way to select if to use or not the high speed feature?)?
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 12:57:32 AM »

...I'm preparing a guide to setup autodownloading, but some variables mentioned in that thread seem to not exist:
cl_wwwDownload
sv_wwwDownload
sv_wwwDlDisconnected

While sv_dlURL, instead, exists.
To make a try, I tried  "\set cl_wwwDownload 0" to momentarily create the variable and set it in a way it should not use www download... but then I tried to connect to a Defrag server, and the high speed download started.

What's the meaning for this?
The previous thread is from 2007... Is it possible that those three variables have been thought unnecessary and then removed? Is is possible that to setup fast download the server should simply enable the classic "sv_allowdownload 1" and then "sv_dlURL <url>", and the client simpy the old "cl_allowdownload 1" (the client without a way to select if to use or not the high speed feature?)?


To download the Q3 way from the Game Server, the server only needs:
 set sv_allowdownload "1"

To download with the ioq3 redirection method, the servers needs:
 set sv_allowdownload "1"
 set sv_dlURL "
Code:
http://www.your-http-server.com/your-game-folder
"
 or
 set sv_dlURL "
Code:
ftp://ftp.your-ftp-server.com/your-game-folder
"


Concerning -- set sv_wwwDlDisconnected "x" -- my understanding is that "1" disconnects the client from the game server while he is downloading the mod/maps/custom sound files, etc., from the web/ftp server and "0" permits the client to remained connected to the game server while he is downloading the files.  Although I set my server to "0" I don't know if that server variable truly works or not.

"cl_allowdownload 1" only specifies that autodownloading is enabled.  The client is totally dependent of the server as to game server downloads or redirected downloads.  However, there was one additional cvar (client variable) that worked in Q3 1.32a-c and it was:
seta cl_downloadSpeed "x"

Where the default of "x" was 0.25 (25%) of, I assume, the sv_maxrate (typically 25000 bits (not bytes)).  The highest integer of "x" was 1 (100%).  I guess id set the default to 25% so as not to saturate the server's bandwidth.  You have to remember that Q3 was released back in December 1999 and Internet speeds were a joke compared to today's speeds.
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2011, 06:34:33 AM »

"cl_allowdownload 1" only specifies that autodownloading is enabled.  The client is totally dependent of the server as to game server downloads or redirected downloads.  However, there was one additional cvar (client variable) that worked in Q3 1.32a-c and it was:
seta cl_downloadSpeed "x"

Where the default of "x" was 0.25 (25%) of, I assume, the sv_maxrate (typically 25000 bits (not bytes)).  The highest integer of "x" was 1 (100%).  I guess id set the default to 25% so as not to saturate the server's bandwidth.  You have to remember that Q3 was released back in December 1999 and Internet speeds were a joke compared to today's speeds.

Are you sure? I just made a try with Quake 3 arena 1.32c, on a server that uses an additional map (Qtracker says that server is using baseq3, but the map file it tries to download is under the OSP folder, and "osp" is what is stored in my fs_game variable after I try to connect). It downloads at about 14-15 KByte/s (about 56% of my "rate" value, if it would be in bytes: my rate is 25000 and the server's sv_maxrate is 0). "Cl_downloadspeed" variable seems to not exist... and if I create it using the "set" command, and set it to 0.9 or to 0.001, there is no change, it still downloads at 14-15 KB/s.

If 25000 would be bits, in theory 25000/8=3125 bytes per second... while it downloads about 4.5 times faster, instead.
Note: if I set my "rate" to 100 instead of 25000, it downloads at about 700 bytes/second (while in theory, 100 bits/8=12,5 bytes per second, this means actual download is 56 times faster; or, if rate would be expressed in bytes, it would be 7 times faster than its value!). I really do not understand.

More, if I set my "rate" to 0, it downloads at 700 bytes/second. If I set it to 250000 (one more "0" than 25000), it downloads at 25-26 KB/s.

I don't know what is expected from "rate 0" or "sv_maxrate 0".

Note: to be more accurate, one should note that a KB is 1024 bytes, thus 25000 bytes would be 24,414 KB. Anyway, this difference is minimal, as compared to the differences found here. One should also note that some "overhead" (I hope it's the correct term) data slightly reduces the actual download speed (cause of packet headers that consume some bandwidth).

I know that, since server admins should use http redirection, questioning about the standard download settings may seem useless... but "rate" and "sv_maxrate" do not affect only download, but also in-game network traffic (and thus, good simulated world representation). And it is important for the server admin to know about the bandwidth each client will use.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 07:43:22 AM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 03:59:53 PM »

...I just made a try with Quake 3 arena 1.32c, on a server that uses an additional map (Qtracker says that server is using baseq3, but the map file it tries to download is under the OSP folder, and "osp" is what is stored in my fs_game variable after I try to connect). It downloads at about 14-15 KByte/s (about 56% of my "rate" value, if it would be in bytes: my rate is 25000 and the server's sv_maxrate is 0). "Cl_downloadspeed" variable seems to not exist... and if I create it using the "set" command, and set it to 0.9 or to 0.001, there is no change, it still downloads at 14-15 KB/s.

First, in Q3, ioq3, OA, or Xreal (2009 version), maps are supposed to be stored in the baseX directory (baseq3, baseoa, baseio, etc.).  The only pak (pk3) files that should be stored in the Mod directories are the Mod themselves, custom sounds, custom crosshairs, etc.  This is the convention I was taught since I started playing Q3 in January 2000.

Second, I wrote that "cl_downloadSpeed "x" is a valid Q3 client variable and it is as can be seen in some links around the Internet.

http://beazt.tk/files/bck.cfg

http://s7.zetaboards.com/WaR_iFT_Clan/topic/8023391/1/

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n7rZAgI7JywJ:www.ufreeze.net/commands.htm+cl_downloadSpeed&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com

http://darxspirit.googlepages.com/q3config.cfg


It may be a valid in ioq3 and OA or it may now be defunct, I don't know.  As I said, in Q3, the default was 0.25 and the highest integer was 1.  However, this may not be the case in other Q3 based games.

The link below shows the integer as high as 9999 for Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (WET).  WET, like OA, use modified versions of the id Tech 3 (Q3) engine.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=873551


Also, I said I assume the speed was referring to sv_maxrate.  I never came across any official info on that but it made more sense to assume sv_maxrate than server upload/download speed.  However, there is an old link from the great Q3 Mod "Ultra Freeze Tag" that claims it is for something else.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n7rZAgI7JywJ:www.ufreeze.net/commands.htm+cl_downloadSpeed&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com


...If 25000 would be bits, in theory 25000/8=3125 bytes per second... while it downloads about 4.5 times faster, instead.
Note: if I set my "rate" to 100 instead of 25000, it downloads at about 700 bytes/second (while in theory, 100 bits/8=12,5 bytes per second, this means actual download is 56 times faster; or, if rate would be expressed in bytes, it would be 7 times faster than its value!). I really do not understand.

More, if I set my "rate" to 0, it downloads at 700 bytes/second. If I set it to 250000 (one more "0" than 25000), it downloads at 25-26 KB/s.

I don't know what is expected from "rate 0" or "sv_maxrate 0".

Note: to be more accurate, one should note that a KB is 1024 bytes, thus 25000 bytes would be 24,414 KB. Anyway, this difference is minimal, as compared to the differences found here. One should also note that some "overhead" (I hope it's the correct term) data slightly reduces the actual download speed (cause of packet headers that consume some bandwidth).

See above for my comment about cl_downloadSpeed and my assumption that it referred to sv_maxrate.

At this point, I think it would be instructive to point the readers especially new Admins to a previous post that explains the basic formula for calculating the number of players slots that their computer can handle comfortably:

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3690.msg31697#msg31697



I know that, since server admins should use http redirection, questioning about the standard download settings may seem useless... but "rate" and "sv_maxrate" do not affect only download, but also in-game network traffic (and thus, good simulated world representation)...

I concur.  There are several other server commands that also affect network traffic.  Especially sv_fps, which many admins do not fully understand.

The default rate for that command is 20 but 30 and 40 are commonly used as well.  However, funny things happen when ppl mess around with them.  Set the server to 30 or 40 and it may not affect players from Industrialized countries with great Internet infrastructure or those relatively close to the server but it will absolutely affect players from third world countries and those from great distances.  Set the server to 30 and have players who connect with the default (20) or multiples of the default (40) will experience some mild lag.  The problem isn't Internet speed (unless the player is still using a dial-up modem) but the latency from distance or crappy infrastructure.
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 02:12:18 AM »

I know that maps should be placed in baseq3 orbaseoa... if that server admin missed to do it, it's his problem. I mentioned it just to say that that server was using a mod.
From that link: "cl_downloadspeed    .25    Controls speed of in-game stats/ssdemo downloading."
"Ssdemo downloading"? What?
Quote
It may be a valid in ioq3 and OA or it may now be defunct, I don't know.  As I said, in Q3, the default was 0.25 and the highest integer was 1.  However, this may not be the case in other Q3 based games.
As I said, I tested it with Q3A 1.32c and it did not seem to exist, but we know that sometimes some variables have to be created manually to work (rare, but possible, like the variables to remove specific items from OpenArena), and if created with "seta" command, you may later see them like if they ever existed (because they are stored), while they are not automatically created in a new q3config.cfg file insted.
Do you think that the reason I did not see any change modifying this value was that the server's sv_maxrate was set to 0?

Anyway, 25000 seems to not be the real upper limit for "rate", since setting it to 250000 made my download speed, in that test, go from 14 KB/s to 25KB/s (Uhm... 14:25000=25:X --> X= 25000*25/14 --> X=44642.85). Is it possible that the real maximum "rate" may be something like 45000?

Do you think that sv_fps may have some relationship also with automatic download speeds?
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2011, 05:17:48 PM »

...sometimes some variables have to be created manually

Actually, in Q3 lots of cvars were optional and not included in a basic q3config.cfg (which I think is about 6kb).  I'm sure the same is true for OA.  In fact, I struggle to keep within the 16.99kb limit after all those optional q3/oa and mod cvars, as well as, voice and radio chats binds are added to the basic q3config.cfg.


...Do you think that the reason I did not see any change modifying this value was that the server's sv_maxrate was set to 0?

Probably not. More likely, it's a defunct cvar in ioq3.  Or, it's as the UFT guys posted - that it controls the speed of the game stats updates and screenshots/demo downloading.  Or, considering the number of internal and released versions and revisions that Q3 underwent, it is possible that it was made defunct in an undocumented change.   Your guess is as good as mine.


...Anyway, 25000 seems to not be the real upper limit for "rate", since setting it to 250000 made my download speed, in that test, go from 14 KB/s to 25KB/s (Uhm... 14:25000=25:X --> X= 25000*25/14 --> X=44642.85). Is it possible that the real maximum "rate" may be something like 45000?

Not for Q3.  The last changelog (1.16j (2-22-00)) for sv-maxRate stated that it caps out at 25K per second.  This was never changed by any subsequent versions or revisions.

http://www.ioquake.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70


...Do you think that sv_fps may have some relationship also with automatic download speeds?

No.  It does affect traffic but it does not determine autodownload speeds.


----------------------------------------


Made a typo in my previous post but since you already quoted it, I wanted to point it out:

The line ----> It may be a valid in ioq3 and OA or it may now be defunct...

Should read ----> It may be invalid in ioq3 and OA or it may now be defunct...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 05:45:11 PM by WaspKiller » Logged



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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2011, 05:49:46 PM »

Not for Q3.  The last changelog (1.16j (2-22-00)) for sv-maxRate stated that it caps out at 25K per second.  This was never changed by any subsequent versions or revisions.

http://www.ioquake.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70

Do you have any idea about the increased download speed in Q3, if changing "rate" from 25000 to 250000, from 14 KB/s to 25 KB/s?

Quote from: From that link
- The Auto-download rate is controlled by 'sv-maxRate', specify this value in bytes per second. The maximum band rate caps out around 25K per second.
[/url].
At least, we know it is expressed in bytes, not bits.
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 09:30:25 AM »

WaspKiller, there is something strange with the post you linked before
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3690.msg31697#msg31697

Quote
Upload Bandwidth in Mbits x 1024 x 1024 / 8 / sv_maxrate

Note: the 1st multiplication by "1024" converts the Megabits to Kilobits.  The 2nd multiplication by "1024" converts the Kilobits to bytes.  The division by "8" converts the bytes to bits which is how Q3 and OA state the minrate and maxrate.

So in your scenario, if I assume that the sv_maxrate is 25000 then the answer is:

7 x 1024 x 1024 / 8 / 25000 = 36.70 or 36 players.
It seems to have swapped "bits" with "bytes" in a passage. The second multiplication converts kilobits to bits (1 Kbit=1024 bits). The divison by 8 converts these bits to bytes (1 byte = 8 bits), which is how Q3 and OA state the minrate and maxrate.
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2011, 03:59:37 PM »

Hi guys! I created
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Automatic_downloading

Since I was dubious about some extra variables, for the moment I have not mentioned them (see DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Talk:Manual/Automatic_downloading]here).
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2011, 04:32:05 PM »

Hi guys! I created
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Automatic_downloading

Since I was dubious about some extra variables, for the moment I have not mentioned them (see DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Talk:Manual/Automatic_downloading]here).

sv_allowdownload is actually a bitfield and can be used to forbid downloading directly from the server if you want to be sure (not recommended though because clients will only fall back to UDP if they have no other option).

The note on ftp security seems a little misplaced considered that the password must be transferred to the client in cleartext no matter how much encryption you have. The only supported security mechanism is checking the referring field of an http request.
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2011, 04:49:52 PM »

Do you mean that it is possible to set, for example, \sv_dlURL "http://www.yourwebhost.com/ AND \sv_allowdownload 0, and clients will continue to use fast download?

If this is the case, I have to change something in the page.

About security, I wrote it thnking that having a password in clear text in the body of a packed is a thing, and having it shown like every URL you visited in any log of proxy servers, ISP, etc is another.
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2011, 04:58:03 PM »

About security, I wrote it thnking that having a password in clear text in the body of a packed is a thing, and having it shown like every URL you visited in any log of proxy servers, ISP, etc is another.
But if I want every person on the Internet to know the password (like if I want to allow players to get file from it) that is not really an issue. I can remove the password for the string so that clients cannot download files if I want it but that would make no sense.
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 05:05:35 PM »

Do you mean that it is possible to set, for example, \sv_dlURL "http://www.yourwebhost.com/ AND \sv_allowdownload 0, and clients will continue to use fast download?
No, but you can set sv_allowdownload 5 and clients would be forced to use http-download. You could also set sv_allowdownload 3 and sv_dlURL would be ignored.

You could also set sv_allowdownload 7 and both UDP and http/ftp download would be disabled (currently that means no downloading at all).
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 05:09:32 PM »

About security, I wrote it thnking that having a password in clear text in the body of a packed is a thing, and having it shown like every URL you visited in any log of proxy servers, ISP, etc is another.
But if I want every person on the Internet to know the password (like if I want to allow players to get file from it) that is not really an issue. I can remove the password for the string so that clients cannot download files if I want it but that would make no sense.
I simply suggested to use a password that has got read-only access, without access to confidential files, and different from other passwords one may use elsewhere... is there something strange in this?  It seems to me basic protection. Undecided

Quote
No, but you can set sv_allowdownload 5 and clients would be forced to use http-download. You could also set sv_allowdownload 3 and sv_dlURL would be ignored.

You could also set sv_allowdownload 7 and both UDP and http/ftp download would be disabled (currently that means no downloading at all).
How many different values! I had no idea about them, I thought it was a boolean variable. Could you please list all of them? If you want, you can also update the wiki page directly...
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Gig
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 05:39:59 PM »

I've done DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Manual%2FAutomatic_downloading&action=historysubmit&diff=8380&oldid=8377]a little change... do you think it may be enough?

About the various values for sv_allowdownload, it would nice if you could write them in that page...
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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