Poll
Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 461882 times)
Gig
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« Reply #825 on: July 08, 2013, 04:01:21 am »

Wow! How many new maps to test today!

Well, due to time problems, I only did quick tests...
OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
- Look at the second screenshot attached. That's an accelerator pad (maybe it's the same you see on the bottom left of the first screenshot, too... but I'm not sure), but it does not have a cool animation effect like those on your jump-pads. Do you think you may do something for that?

OAJGCTF1:
- Seems good.

MX2DM5:
- The jumppads that bring you to the jump-pad in the middle of the map work correctly with "accurate physics", but NOT with fixed 125 Hz physics (they push you too much, and so you crash your head on the ceiling, during the second jump). Maybe a teleporter that brings you just above the central jump-pad would workaround the problem...

MX3CTF8:
- Seems good. I tried it in CTF... I still have to try it in more gametypes. Not sure, maybe the regeneration spawns a little too often? I don't know.


PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
If I will make a map for OACMP02 package, I suppose will create a "gig02" folder and shader file then. Who knows if we will be able to re-use OACMP01 textures and shader for OACMP02 maps, without the need to include them again in the new package? I mean, having OACMP01 as a prerequisite for OACMP02 (making the game automatically dowload both) would be technically possible? And if possible, would that be advisable? Do not downloading the same textures two times sounds nice, but downloading entire maps you don't immediately need, just to get a part of their textures which are used also in other maps, not so much?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 04:07:10 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #826 on: July 08, 2013, 06:29:33 am »

Whoa... too much to reply. I'll start writing that I've updated the links on the wiki. Once Gig updates udestruction, beta03 will be released. (In the end, there's too much new material for a RC).

Now, to the replies... in the next post.
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« Reply #827 on: July 08, 2013, 06:44:27 am »

I'm continuing polishing my map. I'm quite satisfied of it... please just wait a couple of days.
I don't know if I have to spend the time linking all spawn points to the target_give entity (to give grapple since spawning to everyone), considering it's just a test. That would also require some time to "undo", to do not left dirty keys behind.
And I don't know if I want this test to go into the OACMP Beta3. Maybe should I release V9 without the "grapple for everyone", and then release a V9bis or V10 with it?

PS: I'd like to know if Jan has also got some news about this...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 08:25:21 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #828 on: July 08, 2013, 09:17:40 am »

Whoa... too much to reply. I'll start writing that I've updated the links on the wiki. Once Gig updates udestruction, beta03 will be released. (In the end, there's too much new material for a RC).

Now, to the replies... in the next post.

LOL, i have to take hand to my maps  Tongue Tongue Grin

Question: it's possible to add new maps in the Beta 3 ?

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #829 on: July 08, 2013, 09:20:02 am »

No, new maps will be added to OACMP2 once we finish with this. For OACMP1 we're going to stick with what we have. I know you're impatient, I am too, but I'd want to finish this before focusing resources on OACMP2.
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« Reply #830 on: July 08, 2013, 09:22:41 am »

No, new maps will be added to OACMP2 once we finish with this. For OACMP1 we're going to stick with what we have. I know you're impatient, I am too, but I'd want to finish this before focusing resources on OACMP2.

No problem for me, just asking Tongue Tongue

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #831 on: July 08, 2013, 10:14:58 am »

- udestruction - Whoa! It's... big... It reminds me of a map from Doom 2, isn't it?
Not really, at least, not voluntarily. I don't know which map you are thinking at (could you please link some screenshot or video of it?). And I didn't play Doom2 so much. The only inspirations were (very, very mild...!) ospca1 (meaning a map where rocket jumps would be welcome... I don't play that map since a looong time, but for some reason I think that included something that inspired me for the scaffolding), and mabe a very little of q3dm6 (when the pillars where not connected each other... however it was very different than the bigger and squared pillars of q3dm6 since the beginning, and now it's more different since when I connected the pillars together for better bot behavior).

It's this level, Suburbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3v0LNJWXFE
It's been a long time since I've last played D2, but your map remembered me to that map and Downtown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKYMJ3zCcQ

Quote
For your ┐first? attempt at mapping, Gig, I must say, in complete seriousness, that udestruction it's extremely impressive. Even I can't reach some of the stuff you did. Congratulations! (Though I'm still searching for the BFG...) A suggestion I can make is to create more places (poles, broken walls maybe?) where to exploit the grappling hook. I feel that maps like this are made for that weapon.
About udestruction, thank you. Actually, I've spent much, much more time than what I planned on it. Its first beta was on March...... general layout did not change a lot, but I've done various small changes and improvements (especially with textures) since there.
It happens even with carefully planned maps. It's something we mappers have to get used to, and it's part of the dev cycle, I guess.

By the way, as you can see in V8, I've placed that grass under the BFG door button, and I've illuminated that area some more than the rest of that wall (or did I do the illuminating tweak there for V9? I don't remember).... what more should I do to have people find it? Should I place something extremely colorful, like my "stripes" shader? But that could be overkill... I mean, that button is not a gametype objective! It should be something I can disable with the "!gametype" key without causing problems to bots. Should I move it again?
I just took a quick look at your map, I might have to take some more time exploring it, as it's big. My impressions were just first, quick impressions.

For the grappling hook thing, I have to say that I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT TO DO. The only changes I did with it after V8 (I want to release V9 this week) are to change respawn time from default (30 secs in TDM, 5 secs in all other modes, IIRC) to 15 seconds (do you think it's a bad idea?), and to place a low-weight (15) item_botroam near it (just in case in future some developer may fix bots bugs).
Maybe destroyed walls such as those destroyed after a bombardment? Columns, intact or destroyed? Some ceiling? Here are some ideas.

The Grapple discussion should be sent to the Development thread, as it's about the gamecode and sago and Grosbedo might take a look at it.

Just a curiosity: which stuff you say you can't reach? Optically and technically it is not so advanced, compared to other maps. For various shaders, I scavenged from existing oa shaders, just making few changes and applying them to my own textures or modified oa textures. I have not even understood what you guys mean with "patches"...
It's not about technicalities, I'm talking about creativity. My mindset was (is?) pretty limited when it comes to mapping, even after all of this time.

Quote
More feedback, with the remaining FFA maps:
You forgot there is also a FFA map from Moixie.  Wink
You told me that he was going to deliver new versions of his maps, and he did. Tongue
It would have made no sense to test an older version of a map when the newer version was just ready in hours. Now that he has delivered his maps, I can take a look at them.

PS: If you want to do a try, I may sneak in "grapple for everyone" in V9 (as a test: tell me you will give me the ability to release at least a V10 before the official OACMP01 release!). Just tell me exactly what I have to do to achieve this. Do I have to connect a "target_give" to the grappling hook, then connect ALL spawn points to that target_give? I hoped that was something quicker to do/undo.
V9 will be released with the next beta, and we have voted already for the "when it's done" deadline. About giving the grapple to each spawnpoint, well, I don't consider that necessary, at least not now. By now leave it as a pickup weapon.

OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
If there's a file to be removed from the OACMP2 beta, someone should tell me.

- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
There was a similar problem in ps37ctf, someone (Peter?) fixed it by lowering 8 units the bridge.

PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
That's a very good practise. One of the problems we have with OA regarding shaders is precisely that.

If I will make a map for OACMP02 package, I suppose will create a "gig02" folder and shader file then. Who knows if we will be able to re-use OACMP01 textures and shader for OACMP02 maps, without the need to include them again in the new package? I mean, having OACMP01 as a prerequisite for OACMP02 (making the game automatically dowload both) would be technically possible? And if possible, would that be advisable? Do not downloading the same textures two times sounds nice, but downloading entire maps you don't immediately need, just to get a part of their textures which are used also in other maps, not so much?
Downloading the same textures just takes several bits, whereas downloading a PK3 takes some megs. The only case where downloading the same textures isn't beneficial is if an entire package with even unused textures is included in the PK3. But if you only use some of the textures, then there's no problem with including only the textures/shaders used.
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« Reply #832 on: July 08, 2013, 10:41:36 am »

I'm in hurry, I can reply only to this now.
PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
That's a very good practise. One of the problems we have with OA regarding shaders is precisely that.
There is strange thing that I noticed today, I don't know if that's related with this approach or not. This seems to happen with q3radiant only, but not with NetRadiant. It happened that I wanted to use same the texture I used in "comlumn1_shiny"  shader, but without the shader (I did not use the version without shader before)... so I went searching for the tga file itself "column1" in my gig01 folder and I found out that it didn't show up with the other images, although I tried to set the "show all" option... so I manually selected it (typing) from the surface inspector window. Strange, though...
In NetRadiant, instead, I see the two versions of the texture (with and without shader) one next to the other, as expected.
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« Reply #833 on: July 08, 2013, 03:25:40 pm »

I've made a new version, which adds support for ctf oneflag overload harvester ctfelimination dd...i though it might be a bit small for that, but it really isn't.

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4.pk3

OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
I test them in a seperate openarena...a staging environment so to say, and they work there...the teleporters are still dark looking (since that was always the color i wanted) but now they should be shiny and made up out of shrinking squares...
- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
Totally doable!
- Look at the second screenshot attached. That's an accelerator pad (maybe it's the same you see on the bottom left of the first screenshot, too... but I'm not sure), but it does not have a cool animation effect like those on your jump-pads. Do you think you may do something for that?
It somehow went missing in the shader file, its back now!
- oajgdm2 - Avoid using flared light shaders in patches (causes FPS slowdown)
If you mean the effects you see on the walls here:

Since they are part of the lightmap, which is calculated at map-compile time, they should not cause any slowdown..if you mean anything else then please elaborate.
, and try to disperse the ammo. The idea of ammo far from their weapons is that it makes the player travel more the map. There are some exceptions, all of them depend on the weapon. But the idea is that the player must travel the map to get what he wants.
Did that, does seem more fun this way; i may have put the ammo next to the guns because it looks cool...
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« Reply #834 on: July 08, 2013, 04:26:53 pm »

He means the use of the flare command in shaders for lights, particularily if that light is going to be using it for more than one face.


Flares are good for individual lights, but beams, curved lights etc. will create too many flares. The performance drop is caused by the depth read to test the flare.   Flares are nice, but they need an alternate method of testing (occlusion queries? traceline?)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 04:34:15 pm by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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« Reply #835 on: July 09, 2013, 12:49:56 am »

It's this level, Suburbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3v0LNJWXFE
It's been a long time since I've last played D2, but your map remembered me to that map and Downtown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKYMJ3zCcQ
I don't know if I've ever seen those levels before. However, I can understand that my map may easily remind them.  Smiley

Quote
I have not even understood what you guys mean with "patches"...
It's not about technicalities, I'm talking about creativity. My mindset was (is?) pretty limited when it comes to mapping, even after all of this time.
Again, what do you mean with "patches"? Curved polygons (like bevels) or what?

Quote
If there's a file to be removed from the OACMP2 beta, someone should tell me.
I suppose you should repack beta 3 from scratch, instead of modifying beta2 package.

@ Jan:
I loaded jgdm2beta4, but I cannot notice differences against beta3 in shaders. Take a look to the screenshot, I still see teleporter like that, not animated. And I still don't see the effect over that accelerator pad (and I tested the map on two different machines).

I have quickly tested the map in some gametypes (just wandering, without bots):
- One flag CTF: I have not been able to locate the white flag...
- Overload: obelisks show up messed up (it seems you placed their base model with the wrong orientation!).
- Harvester: flag bases/skull generator models look with the wrong orientation.
- Elimination CTF: seems correct
- Double Domination: I haven't been able to locate A and B points (are you sure you included  "dd" in red and blue flags gametype key?)
- Domination: It looks like there are no DOM points.

@ Fromhell: I tried enabling "flares" graphic option while playing in Jan's map, but I don't see "flares" (like those in pvomit map, for example) appearing at all... I don't even know if he used a flares-capable q3map compiler.

@ Moixie: In your CTF map, the OA logo on those decorative flags on the walls (see screenshot) seems a bit "compressed". Is it this way in the image file, or has the texture been stretched?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 03:30:09 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #836 on: July 09, 2013, 09:30:52 am »

@Jan: disregard what Gig says - he is not using clean OA installation, teleporters look perfectly fine for me.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 09:33:30 am by pelya » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #837 on: July 09, 2013, 09:50:59 am »

Just before reading this post of yours, I've sent a PM to Jan, telling him that shader has got a a conflict with z_oajgctf1.pk3.  Smiley In theory, that map had no reason to contain a teleporter shader.  Smiley
I suggested him to re-organize all of his shaders, if he has got some time.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 10:03:14 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #838 on: July 09, 2013, 10:06:28 am »

All maps will get included into OACMP pack anyway, so Neon_Knight will sort out all shaders, hopefully.
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Gig
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« Reply #839 on: July 09, 2013, 10:38:15 am »

All maps will get included into OACMP pack anyway, so Neon_Knight will sort out all shaders, hopefully.
I don't know what Neon_Knight plans to do with shaders. I'm interested to know this due to the fact I included an "author_note" (as a key for worldspawn, plus in readme file) where I recommend adding "gig01" to shaderlist.txt for editing the map. If a such statement will not be valid (due to the fact the shader file name will be changed by Neon_Knight), I'd like to know that before.  Smiley

Anyway, although he may easily just put together all .shader files to have only one .shader file for the whole OACMP01 package (or one for each author)... it would be a much bigger work (and that would require recompiling, I can guess) to move all textures and shaders from each author into a folder (I would imagine one folder for author), removing folder names like /textures/common/  from OACMP (of course there is already one "common" in baseoa! I would not mess with that...). I'm also not sure about folder names like /textures/evil8_something considering that they are already existent in OA packages.
I suppose making order into his own shaders would be a work for each mapper. About this, Moixie can take advantage from the fact his maps seem to use stock OA textures/shaders only.  Smiley
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« Reply #840 on: July 09, 2013, 10:38:54 am »

although oajgctf1 does not include the teleporters, it does contain the same bouncepads so thats why it may use the same shader file...

I dont know if any of you are comfortable with this, but perhaps we could use GIT (or SVN...), for the second map pack? We need to make some rules obviously (like if bspc's should be in there or not); but having version control has a lot of added benefits...(such as a history, easier collaboration, consistent snapshots).
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« Reply #841 on: July 09, 2013, 11:10:16 am »

Git would be awesome! Now, how many of you have Github or SF.net accounts? Or maybe Google Code? I recommend Github, because it got faster web interface than SF.net, but SF.net allows you to login with your Google account (and so Google Code does). We should also consult Sago And GrosBedo about this topic Wink
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« Reply #842 on: July 09, 2013, 11:57:30 am »

I have a github, bitbucket and google acount...I'd prefer github aswell.
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« Reply #843 on: July 09, 2013, 01:20:07 pm »

@ Jan:
I loaded jgdm2beta4, but I cannot notice differences against beta3 in shaders. Take a look to the screenshot, I still see teleporter like that, not animated. And I still don't see the effect over that accelerator pad (and I tested the map on two different machines).

I have quickly tested the map in some gametypes (just wandering, without bots):
- One flag CTF: I have not been able to locate the white flag...
- Overload: obelisks show up messed up (it seems you placed their base model with the wrong orientation!).
- Harvester: flag bases/skull generator models look with the wrong orientation.
- Elimination CTF: seems correct
- Double Domination: I haven't been able to locate A and B points (are you sure you included  "dd" in red and blue flags gametype key?)
- Domination: It looks like there are no DOM points.

Domination is still not supported...double domination is, should i support both?

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4r1.pk3

Same as before, old version has to go, this one is named differently just to make it identifiable.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #844 on: July 09, 2013, 01:34:38 pm »

Hmmm... guys, we're getting out of hand with gametype support. There's no real need to support every gametype in every map even if the map itself isn't really designed to support that gametype.

One thing is to give 1FCTF, Harv, Elim, etc. support to a CTF map (because there're practically no differences in mapping for those gametypes) and another is to modify the map to support a gametype the map isn't really compatible with.
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« Reply #845 on: July 09, 2013, 02:31:16 pm »

Hmmm... guys, we're getting out of hand with gametype support. There's no real need to support every gametype in every map even if the map itself isn't really designed to support that gametype.

One thing is to give 1FCTF, Harv, Elim, etc. support to a CTF map (because there're practically no differences in mapping for those gametypes) and another is to modify the map to support a gametype the map isn't really compatible with.
LOL!

Somebody suggested CTF for this map; i thought it would be fun (i think assymmetrical ctf can be a lot fun, its just that the game should make the teams switch bases after each (or every 3rd or 5th) capture....to make it perfectly fair again), and actually it is fun, mainly because of the weird layout. Having CTF, as you pointed out, mean oneflag, havester, overload, ctfelimination and double domination come for free...i may have gone too far, but please try before you reject.

Removing support should be easy enough, if the need arises.
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« Reply #846 on: July 09, 2013, 03:35:18 pm »

I've been trying to put the maps through their paces. So far, no major technical snafus. I will not submit opinion about realistic playability as there is no way for me to judge this with bots. (And I do not have access to a private server to test multi-player with others.) Bots do play fairly well on udestruction. They even find the BFG!

Full disclosure: I am running a fairly old machine. AMD Sempron 2.0GHz, 2GB DDR 400 MHz RAM, 100 GB ATA HDD, nVidia G210 1GB, 24" LCD TV thru HDMI (@1920x1080), OS=Fedora19, OA 0.8.8 (mostly vanilla: no mods, but have added new maps to ~/.openarena/baseoa).

You all have done an excellent job! (I especially like udestruction and oa_akomdm1) One of the things that keeps people playing is new content. Why was DOOM so long-lived? The 50,000+ user-created levels. A more current example is that I used to play UT2K4 on the sHoKaZuLu server. If I remember correctly, they only had like one or two original maps; all the others were user-created. Dedicated players have an advantage when creating maps, as they understand the "real-time" aspects of terrain, weapon and ammo placement, power-up availability, etc.

Keep up the great work. Hope to see these maps on some servers sometime soon!
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« Reply #847 on: July 10, 2013, 12:53:23 am »

Quickly tested Jan's new version. Nice, but:
- Blue obelisk, red obelisk and neutral obelisk entities now look correctly oriented (vertically instead of horizontally), but not yet correctly aligned with the ground (in harvester mode, you can see skull generator floating in the air now). Their "origin point" has to be perfectly aligned with the ground (it doesn't matter how the 3D model looks in the editor... just think about perfectly aligning its origin point).
This is extremely important for Overload mode... at the moment, the map causes wrong bots behavior in that mode. See also http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Overload
- At least two teleporters (how many are there in total in the map?) cause you to re-appear in a place where you will very likely immediately fall off the platform, unless you already press the right movement key to compensate. This is strange, I think you should correct this. I noticed this while I was playing with fixed 125Hz physics, I don't know if this makes some difference.

About Neon_Knight note about gametypes... it's true that we don't have necessarily to add support for all gametypes to all maps... however at least DOM and DD modes can easily work with maps of any shape (for DD mode, just remembering the golden rule to do not make players spawn right next to DD points).

@zeroth: there is a public OACMP_b2 server (thanks Pelya) to test the map online. The maps it actually has are newer than those in the original Beta2 package, however probably the most recent versions of some of them (we had various updates this week) are not there yet.
PS: In my map, I've spent some time spectating bot behavior in general (e.g. when they were alone in the arena) and looking at what they did when I ordered them to follow me around the map. I've appositely changed some details during time trying to help them to better navigate the map. Unfortunately, sometimes their behavior changes without apparent reason.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:48:03 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
Gig
In the year 3000
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« Reply #848 on: July 10, 2013, 06:46:01 am »

Hi guys! I've written the "readme" file for my map.
Now I need a new leveshot and to re-package it, but I have to go now...
Tomorrow I will release V9.

A question about levelshots: will Neon_Knight capture all of them again for the final release, to have them be "coherent" (with same settings)?
Or should we decide commons settings, and each one will take his own levelshots?
Note: for resolution/file size balancement, I suppose one might take levelshot at high resolution and then use a third-party software to tweak jpeg compression.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 07:12:51 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
pelya
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« Reply #849 on: July 10, 2013, 11:10:20 am »

My server is not private - it's listed among other public servers and currently active. I'll update it when Neon_Knight releases Beta3 package, because I'm too lazy to handle individual maps (also they have shader conflicts).
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