Poll
Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 412464 times)
Gig
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« Reply #1425 on: January 03, 2014, 07:19:33 am »

Time ago I noticed a way that allowed to know if a map had items that did not spawn due to trying to spawn in solid... loading the map and looking at the console output, under the ---- map loading ---- section it mentioned the XYZ coordinates where these problems were (and which kind of item had the "startsolid" problem). Doing it from a dedicated server session is even easier, due to the console showing much less unneeded data. This method (or even a better one, if existing) for detecting these errors may be mentioned somewhere in mapping-related wiki pages.

Applying this test to current versions of OACMP maps:
- Akom's maps: no other errors, but two shotguns in NK version of oa_akomdm3.
- Udestruction: no such errors.
- Moixie's maps: no such errors.
- Oajgdm3, Oajgctf1: no such errors.
- Oajgdm1: 1 armor shard, 1 small health and 2 standard health with "startsolid" problem. Also mentions a few items not reachable for bots.[1]
- Oajgdm2: it mentions various items with the "startsolid" problem.

Jan, are you still around for these fixes?

[1]I don't know what can cause it to say an item is "not reachable" for bots. I just tried a test map (in Q3) with some items appositely placed where bots cannot go (on very high platforms or supended), and console output doesn't mention the problem. Hence, I can guess the lack of such message is not a warranty that bots are really able to reach all items. Other possible explainations may include possibility of OA showing a message Q3 does not show (sounds strange, but who knows?), or my test map containing a grapple (although I appositely compiled aas without grapplereach option for this test).
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 08:04:33 am by Gig » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #1426 on: January 03, 2014, 08:02:20 am »

New oa_akomdm3 has some parts a bit too dark.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1427 on: January 03, 2014, 08:18:07 am »

[1]I don't know what can cause it to say an item is "not reachable" for bots. I just tried a test map (in Q3) with some items appositely placed where bots cannot go (on very high platforms or supended), and console output doesn't mention the problem. Hence, I can guess the lack of such message is not a warranty that bots are really able to reach all items. Other possible explainations may include possibility of OA showing a message Q3 does not show (sounds strange, but who knows?), or my test map containing a grapple (although I appositely compiled aas without grapplereach option for this test).
Perhaps they're placed inside of botclip brushes?
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Gig
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« Reply #1428 on: January 03, 2014, 10:22:46 am »

Perhaps they're placed inside of botclip brushes?
I have not checked, however I can guess not.

Well, although I'm curious, I think we may do more tests on this later... for the moment, maybe it's better to focus on oacmp itself. Those few maps do actually report there is something strange.

And I hope someone else may take a look to those ambient light tests with udestruction (see posts in previous page), and give his opinions before next Tuesday, when I may do some more testing.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1429 on: January 03, 2014, 12:36:06 pm »

If you want really good lighting without losing shadows and the like, then your best bet is to take care of the lighting yourself instead of realying on either min* or ambientlight.

I'm going to upload today or tomorrow the changes I've made to your map.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1430 on: January 03, 2014, 02:25:00 pm »

OK, here's udestruction with many changes, mainly lighting.
I've used v17a1. Screenshots soon.
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Gig
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« Reply #1431 on: January 04, 2014, 05:55:02 am »

I've used v17a1.
Do you mean you kept "ambient 1"?

However, I only gave a quick try, from a weaker PC. It looks not bad (and thank you for your efforts), but I have to do more tests. I have not yet opened the .map file.

The reason I did not place lamps before was that this was expected as an ancient, abandoned place, where no-one would have placed lamps. And, of course, to try to save some poygons. However, maybe some lamps may fit, if necessary.

Problems I noticed:
- The water between the towers and the warehouse does "blink" intermittently, for some strange reason.
- A few textures are scaled up than what expected (this also happened when I did my tests with q3map2 months ago -see posts about V09bis and V10bis-).
- Black vertical line on map border, near to the proximity mines launcher.
- Maybe bot-related hitches are back (but I tried with a weaker PC). Clusters here were an alchemy I managed to obtain through hundreds of "try and try again" tests, and also moving a single brush sometimes caused that alchemy do to not work anymore. Making many changes (and changing map compiler) probably broke that alchemy. In the next days, I'll try to bspc and take a look to its output (if you prefer, you can post in the meanwhile), too see how many areas are in each cluster.
- A few new "lamps" seem a bit too large for where they are used (e.g. ground floor of the house).
- Simpler pillars in the hall of pillars maybe do save some triangles, but I liked the previous version more...
- Some nice shadows I liked are lost (compare first screenshot -your version- with the second one -V17, IIRC-).
- The scaffholding area maybe it's still too dark. In general, I'm not sure overall lighthing is brighter: some parts are, but maybe others not...

However, I will do deeper look next week.

PS: a different topic: what do you think about my thoughts about map rotation scripts and mappools, said in this post?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 06:11:12 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1432 on: January 04, 2014, 06:50:13 am »

Oh, haven't mentioned my changes:

- I've removed the clusterportals in order to redo them again. Many of them were wrongly used (some of them completely disregarded the rules for clusterportals) so in-game they didn't work. I haven't redid them yet, there are 1600 areas, so I have to think where to place them.
- Also, the map doesn't really need the VIS stage since everything can be seen from everywhere and nothing really works to block the view (there aren't corridors or apt places, it's an open map), so I've also removed the Hint brushes and made everything detail.
- Also I've reduced a lot of polygons in the buildings by mittering them.
- And OFC, the lighting.

Also, yep, I've used ambientlight 1. I wanted to remove that key, but just forgot that.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 06:52:33 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1433 on: January 04, 2014, 10:13:33 am »

New version of mine of oa_akomdm3
- New sky (more akin to the egyptian theme)
- DD support
- Stuff specific to 1FCTF/Harvester
- Brushwork & patchwork optimizations

Requires OACMP2.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1434 on: January 05, 2014, 11:48:25 am »

Reuploaded oa_akomdm3 because I forgot the .map file. -.- Also seized the chance to improve botplay.

Also I'm uploading my version of oa_akomdm2:
- New weapon/item placement, less symmetric.
- New lighting.
- Mittering thoughout the entire level. Less polygons to render for the engine. Better performance.
- Botplay optimizations.

The layout is intact. There are some small glitches I'll be fixing later.
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Akom74
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« Reply #1435 on: January 05, 2014, 12:13:57 pm »

....ehm, just a question for Neon_Knight:
Why dont you notice me some changes to do with my maps ?  Huh

just to know.

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1436 on: January 05, 2014, 12:15:26 pm »

I forget to. -.-
Anyway, you've already done a lot, and I haven't really contributed anything to OACMP, so I wanted to do my part. =)
OFC, I'll regress what I did if you want me to... I still have the last akompack you've submitted.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 12:18:26 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Akom74
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« Reply #1437 on: January 05, 2014, 12:33:56 pm »

I forget to. -.-
Anyway, you've already done a lot, and I haven't really contributed anything to OACMP, so I wanted to do my part. =)
OFC, I'll regress what I did if you want me to... I still have the last akompack you've submitted.

For me no problem, the maps are released (even in this case) under GPL, you can do what you want.

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1438 on: January 05, 2014, 12:35:29 pm »

Well, I want you to take a look at them and tell me what do you think of them. Tongue
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1439 on: January 05, 2014, 02:25:29 pm »

Screenshots of my versions of both oa_akomdm2 and oa_akomdm3:












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« Reply #1440 on: January 05, 2014, 03:39:00 pm »

I want to read Pelya thoughts about it.

Wink
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pelya
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« Reply #1441 on: January 05, 2014, 03:44:40 pm »

I want to read Pelya thoughts about it.

Please give me one hour to test.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1442 on: January 05, 2014, 03:52:55 pm »

I still have to add the Hint brushes for better VIS control, but it should run faster than before.
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pelya
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« Reply #1443 on: January 05, 2014, 11:01:55 pm »

oa_akomdm2.
I like the lighting and the new architecture.
The nailgun is overpowered, and personal teleporter is useless on this map, because the fall is too short to use it, also there are safety borders everywhere, so falling does not happen often.
So. my suggestion is to  place nailgun to where teleporter is, and remove teleporter.
And why did you remove railgun? Maybe put railgun instead of nailgun? Because it's a standard weapon,  and does not require switching to it manually after  you pick it.
Also, two platforms where you spawn (on screenshot) do not have any weapon, and only plasmagun is between them, that seems unfair. Two other platforms have rocket and shotgun, would be fair to put, say, plasma and lightning gun on empty platforms.
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pelya
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« Reply #1444 on: January 05, 2014, 11:31:46 pm »

oa_akomdm3:
It's now brighter and prettier, I like that. I was thinking of the black sky with stars, but blue sky also looks okay, maybe it should be toned down in intensity, because you've got afternoon bright sky and mildly-lit evening map lighting.
One flag CTF works well, except for some missing textures.
I've also tried DD and it kinda works, but the upper floor of map is getting all the action indeed. This may be solved by putting rocket and plasma to the lower floor, leaving only health and armor on the upper floor.
Shotguns not spawning are now fixed.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1445 on: January 06, 2014, 12:03:22 am »

I'll regress the RG in dm2, though I don't like the idea much, as the RG is also overpowered in open maps. But since it isn't as questioned as the three MP weapons...
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pelya
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« Reply #1446 on: January 06, 2014, 12:13:49 am »

Put it on the top of that tower, like megahealth. Yes it's overpowered, but not that much, because even with 3 players you'll constantly get someone behind your back on this map, it's quite dynamic in that respect.
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Gig
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« Reply #1447 on: January 07, 2014, 01:58:58 am »

Hi guys! I still have to try latest changes to Akom's maps.

About udestruction, probably re-optimizing everything again, from scratch, would require you too much time (also other maps do have a few problems which should be fixed before January 15)...
I'm really thinking about just starting from V17 version, just setting something like ambient 2 (maybe lowering a few existing light entities to compensate) and goodnight.

... and I'm still not sure general lighting is really brigher than my version. I still have to do more tests, I'm still at the first tried a few days ago. However, I would like to know what Akom and Pelya think about that lighting.

PS: believe it or not, most of those clusterportals did work, if compiled with q3map. Don't ask me the reason why trying to follow clusterportals rules did not work, and using those strange shapes did work instead (as I told, those clusterportals shapes were originated by many, many, many, many tests)... these are mysteries...

PPS: What about naming your tests something like "oa_akomdm3nk.bsp", to allow quicker compare between original version and your version, without having to rename .pk3 files each time?  Wink

PPPS: Comparing your version of udestruction with V17a1, your version seems to have some more framerate slowdowns (not talking about bot stutter now)...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 03:10:04 am by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #1448 on: January 07, 2014, 02:54:46 am »

I'll regress the RG in dm2, though I don't like the idea much, as the RG is also overpowered in open maps. But since it isn't as questioned as the three MP weapons...

If i don't remember wrong, the items placement was changed by your suggestion and various by other users.
This map is borned for massacre and frenetic play, weapons overpowered or not.

The changed version is not my map, and just to clarify:

Are you sure of this ? (see screenshot)



I'm not mad with you, you have done a very good job for vis and bot roaming improvement.

Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #1449 on: January 07, 2014, 03:05:13 am »

Tried new versions of Akom's maps.

A few things about oa_akomdm3:
- In DD mode, railgun spawns in the same place of the "A" point, and this does not look good.
- I thought you would also have added DOM support...  Undecided
- There is still the problem that the single secret passage is a shortcut to the white flag/skull generator that may be considered not fair in 1FCTF and Harvester modes. Adding a second one maybe?
- You removed the patch which sealed the secret passage making it unidirectional. Now it's possible to open it also from inside. But now the moving wall does maybe seem to thin? See first attached screenshot. Maybe you may also add a lateral wall (moving together), to make it seem "full", when seen from the inside.
- Like Pelya, also I expected a sky with stars and/or moon, being used to the previous black sky (although also the new one is nice). I think Akom should decide.
- On that small platform on the left of the second screenshot, there is a medkit... what about placing something also on the one on the right?

PS: I'd also like to know if you tried something like this for DM1. And to know your opinions about map rotation scripts and mappools.  Smiley
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 03:41:44 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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