Poll
Question: Common map naming for OACMP (map dm1/ctf1 as example) [ends 20/12]
oacmpdm01/oacmpctf01 - 2 (28.6%)
oacmpdm001/oacmpctf001 - 0 (0%)
oacmpdm1/oacmpctf1 - 4 (57.1%)
oacmp1dm01/oacmp1ctf01 - 0 (0%)
oacmp01dm01/oacmp01ctf01 - 0 (0%)
Other option (elaborate or your vote won't count) - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL  (Read 493532 times)
pelya
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« Reply #1500 on: January 16, 2014, 04:27:41 am »

I've tested all DM maps in FFA mode
dm1 - OK. I've noticed one place where lighting is a bit too dark, but it's too late to fix that.
dm2 - item placement is back to symmetric, but that's a good thing, you should be able to grab a gun immediately after spawning. Railgun is placed OK.
dm3 - OK in FFA mode. The teleporter also does not work in DD mode, and not only bots cannot teleport - I cannot teleport too, the screen flashes white and it generally looks weird. But I like that plasmaguns are on the lower floor in DD mode.
dm4 - OK.
dm5 - OK.
dm6 - OK.
dm7 - OK, the jumppads push me to death sometimes, exactly the way I remember it was before. Also, I've noticed that you can run in circles at the middle of the map and collect health and kill everyone constantly, that works only with bot skill 2 though.
dm8 - OK. I remember there was a Flight bonus, could not find it this time. Also, noticed small seam between textures, but it's nothing serious (see screenshot).
dm9 - I like new brighter lighting, and I like new fog/water, but oh my FPS! It became most FPS demanding map, even worse than udestruction/dm10. I guess you should leave it like it is, because the map looks good this way.
dm10 - lighting is good, shadows are warm and fuzzy, the map is OK I say.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1501 on: January 16, 2014, 04:45:26 am »

I'm only going to tackle the dm3 bug. The rest will be left as it is.

BTW, Gig, I've told you tons of times as well: the pack with the final names is the final release.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 04:48:04 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Gig
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« Reply #1502 on: January 16, 2014, 04:55:30 am »

I'm only going to tackle the dm3 bug. The rest will be left as it is.

BTW, Gig, I've told you tons of times as well: the pack with the final names is the final release.
And I told you various times to do some simple fixes (mappools) which you ignored...

However, common sense should tell anyone that simply is senseless to directly release to the public completely untested changes.
I don't see the reason to throw in the toilet years of development (sort of).

PS:
- MAP BUG: in moxie's CTF MAP, in DOM mode, at least one quad damage spawns in the same exact place of one of the DOM points. I don't know about the other two points. Also this one is a "new" bug.

PPS:
I've tested all DM maps in FFA mode
dm8 - OK. I remember there was a Flight bonus, could not find it this time. Also, noticed small seam between textures, but it's nothing serious (see screenshot).
IIRC, flight bonus was removed months ago from oajgdm3, as a quick workaround for the problem of viewing the map from too high makes it possible to show some glitches due to seeing some patches from the wrong side.

PPPS:
At any case, updating the oacmpdm10.txt file with the one I gave you in the previous post (and including each map's own readme file also inside the pk3) should be very quick operations, isn't so?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:05:28 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1503 on: January 16, 2014, 05:09:08 am »

However, common sense should tell anyone that simply is senseless to directly release to the public completely untested changes.
I don't see the reason to throw in the toilet years of development (sort of).
So the pack should be released in the deadline "when it's done". So we should spend decades of development even for the most tiniest bugs to be solved. I disagree with this.

#1 thing every "X hints for game developers" list say is "Make something and release it". We have already delayed this pack for so goddamn long, Akom has already prepared his OACMP2 maps before this pack was released, and you are the only one who still wants to keep the OACMP1 under development.

Sorry, but only serious (and I mean SERIOUS as in game-breaking) bugs will be tackled for a v2. Besides, in general the pack doesn't look THAT bad and unfinished.

(It's the 0.8.8 situation all over again... -.-)
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1504 on: January 16, 2014, 05:17:59 am »

For OACMP2 many things will have to change, that's for sure.
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Gig
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« Reply #1505 on: January 16, 2014, 05:34:44 am »

You forgot the "sort of" note. That one was a sort of joke, but I forgot to add the smiley.  Tongue (Sorry if that was not clear it was not angry). I mean, I don't think these bugs do completely ruin the package, but however I find that releasing something with bugs such as the one found by Pelya is not nice. Months of testing do not count, if latest changes are not tested...

I'm still about the idea that there have been too many changes between RC2 and the final release (and, more important, too many maps have been modified and re-compiled and never be tested then! Who ever saw the current version of oa_akomdm5 before today?), to even think about a direct release. I was not asking you another month, just a day or two.
Simply, there were some things we had no way to test before, and that's not good... it seems quite clear to me.

However, about mappols, I created the two files to enable/disable them... you can find them attached here (oacmp1_enable.cfg and oacmp1_disable. Please remove the ".txt" at the end. I added it because the forum does not allow to upload .cfg files, at the moment.).
I think that in theory they should work... but unfortunately, it seems that current OACMP mappols filenames you used are too long: g_mappols variable ends up being something like 271 characters, which is out from some limit (256 maybe?), and the game crashes.
Solution would be shortening those filenames and updating oacmp1_enable.cfg file accordingly.
Also without my files, I can guess anyone trying to use those mappols would encounter the same problem.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:41:22 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1506 on: January 16, 2014, 05:39:54 am »

The filenames won't be changed. Remember what we have talked about them. Too bad if you haven't considered that in its moment.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1507 on: January 16, 2014, 05:43:16 am »

dm9 - I like new brighter lighting, and I like new fog/water, but oh my FPS! It became most FPS demanding map, even worse than udestruction/dm10. I guess you should leave it like it is, because the map looks good this way.
It's extremely hard to optimize maps which weren't thought with optimization in mind without touching the layout. This is why, whether he likes it or not, Akom should learn about how to optimize his maps and plan them with optimizations in mind.
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Gig
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« Reply #1508 on: January 16, 2014, 05:45:56 am »

The filenames won't be changed. Remember what we have talked about them. Too bad if you haven't considered that in its moment.
I had NO WAY to test your mappols files before, because in previous RC maps did use different names, so they would have not worked in any case!

I told you many times we really needed a couple of days of testing with the final mapnames at their places....


dm9 - I like new brighter lighting, and I like new fog/water, but oh my FPS! It became most FPS demanding map, even worse than udestruction/dm10. I guess you should leave it like it is, because the map looks good this way.
It's extremely hard to optimize maps which weren't thought with optimization in mind without touching the layout. This is why, whether he likes it or not, Akom should learn about how to optimize his maps and plan them with optimizations in mind.
Ehm... how to optimize in an "open" map such as that one? I don't know is slowdown is caused by fog, or is caused by removing VIS stage (or making everything "detail"), or whatever else (just guessing)... but Akom had no way to know that would have happened, especially the last day.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:49:29 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1509 on: January 16, 2014, 05:49:02 am »

And I have told you many times that the final names are reserved for the final release on the instance (players/serveradmins are jerks, always keep that in mind) that someone uses a previous version of the pack. This ensures that the maps on the servers have the real versions and no beta versions.
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Gig
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« Reply #1510 on: January 16, 2014, 05:53:53 am »

And I have told you many times that the final names are reserved for the final release on the instance (players/serveradmins are jerks, always keep that in mind) that someone uses a previous version of the pack. This ensures that the maps on the servers have the real versions and no beta versions.
Both aspects are important, but having to choose one, the testing one is more important, IMHO. The one about servers can be mitigated in various ways:
- Keeping the RC version online for the shortest time possible (a couple of days of testing may be enough)
- Publicizing the RC to testers only (example: link through private messages instead of public posts), and stating expressly that's a beta which should not be used in servers.
- Making the really final pk3 with a filename that is loaded after the RC?

For OACMPv2, please consider this.

PS:
The filenames won't be changed.
Is there any real reason for to not rename a bunch of (otherwise useless) files, while you wait for dm3 recompiling?  Smiley
I see you have not even downloaded my simple scripts yet...  Undecided

PPS: You created those mappols files (even the idea of placing there mappols instead of classic map rotation scripts is yours, IIRC), so you may have tested them. You were the only one which had the final package before its release. Sorry if it may seem arsh (I never like being harsh), but that's the truth.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 06:07:03 am by Gig » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #1511 on: January 16, 2014, 06:31:24 am »

dn9: false alarm, both old and new version of the map has same FPS. But when I shoot rocket, FPS drops in half. And when bots start shooting, oh my poor phone.
Edit: tested CTF mode.
dm6: cool asymmetric map, I like it. Items/accessibility balance between bases seems okay to me.
dm10: same as I remember it, OK.
ctf1: area with bases seems too dark for me, because of dark textures used. It's a minor issue, blame me for touching Jan's skybox, because initially it was brighter, if I recall correctly.
ctf2: okay, moving flags to the bottom floor closer to each other makes them harder to defend, but more vertical detail is of course welcome (not that you could defend them before, the map is small).
ctf3: OK.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:14:32 am by pelya » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1512 on: January 16, 2014, 07:17:46 am »

So, in general lines, barring dm3 1FC bug and ctf2 DD bug everything is A-OK. Cool!
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1513 on: January 16, 2014, 07:23:43 am »

dn9: false alarm, both old and new version of the map has same FPS. But when I shoot rocket, FPS drops in half. And when bots start shooting, oh my poor phone.
Well, this is why OA3 is being developed and why we should care about it.
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Gig
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« Reply #1514 on: January 16, 2014, 07:28:45 am »

"Ctf2 DD bug"? Wasn't it a DOM bug?  Undecided

About mappols:
If you wish, we can live without mappols at all (noone forbids including mappols in volume 2, so possibly keep those two small files I prepared for that), I suppose you may just don't include them at all in the "version 2?" release.

However, please place a copy of each map's readme file also inside the .pk3 (if possible, the updated txt file for DM10, thank you).

Thank you!  Wink


PS At this point, I'm curious... any idea about the reason for those strange yellow dots in the upper left corner of levelshots?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:40:02 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1515 on: January 16, 2014, 07:30:36 am »

OACMPvol1 is on moddb.

http://www.moddb.com/games/openarena/addons/openarena-community-map-pack-volume-1
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Gig
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« Reply #1516 on: January 16, 2014, 07:47:39 am »

Is that already the "fixed" pack (with dm3 teleport issue fixed)?  Undecided If not, what's the reason for spreading a faulty pack?

However, now we can start talking a bit about OACMP volume 1 dedicated wiki pages: http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:OpenArena_Community_Mappack#Pages_about_each_mappack

PS: About OACMPDM3, the teleporter bug is worse than what I thought. It does not only affect bots, so maybe there is some error with the gametype key usage. In DM mode, it brings you to upper floor, but you re-appear in the air in a place where you fall down to the lower floor immediately. In 1FCTF mode, if you enter it, you end up into an infinite loop!

UDPATE: now DM3 has also got a graphic glitch, at the base of one of the teleporters: see the attached screenshot.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 09:33:21 am by Gig » Logged

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pelya
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« Reply #1517 on: January 16, 2014, 09:46:08 am »

Teleporter bug is not fixed in a pack uploaded to moddb Sad
So, how about post-release release? Or maybe make oacmp2 additionally include all maps from oacmp1, with fixes? Akom already got 4 new maps for oacmp2.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1518 on: January 16, 2014, 09:52:49 am »

Only ONE, with those two bugs fixed, the latest udestruction readme and NOTHING ELSE.

Can we just move on to OACMP2 and other stuff, please?
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« Reply #1519 on: January 16, 2014, 09:55:27 am »

latest udestruction readme and NOTHING ELSE.
Not even all maps' readme files into the .pk3?  Undecided
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1520 on: January 16, 2014, 09:57:58 am »

OK, that as well. But I repeat again... NOTHING ELSE.
This topic should have been closed and we should have been moving on to other things.
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Gig
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« Reply #1521 on: January 16, 2014, 10:10:13 am »

Okay, thank you.  Smiley

However, for next time (volume 2), please... if you decide to make heavy changes to maps (including those from other people), please start them the right time, and not just 15 days before the final release.[1] Testing each change is important, or there is risk to release something with major bugs, as this time happened with DM3.  Wink
I hope no other maps have major bugs, but I have not tested them extensively (that quad damage problem in ctf2 is just a medium bug).

What's the meaning to try in every way to have servers not using beta versions, if then we have the need for releasing hotfixes for the official release?

I say this with absolute tranquillity.  Smiley

By the way, the hotfix will be a complete package or a patch?

[1] You have done a big job with this package, but you have to admit the part about the maps re-edited by you has been somehow "rushed"...  Smiley
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:34:41 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1522 on: January 16, 2014, 10:44:56 am »

Done. The link was updated in the first post, the wiki and the News post.

If there's something else to fix, too bad.

Can we close this and move on, please?
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Gig
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« Reply #1523 on: January 16, 2014, 11:00:47 am »

To tell the truth, I just found another bug. I can guess it's too late for it.

Importance: medium (makes the map feel unfinished, but seems to do not affect gameplay).

Do you remember that in the previous version some items in moxie's dm map were placed too low (and partially shown in the ground, then)? Now some of them are still that way, while many other items seem to be floating a lot higher than their usual height. See screenshots. I don't know what happened, maybe the "suspended" flag sneaked in someway?
Fortunately, it looks like that bots still go for them (at least, I saw a bot going for some of them!).

I was here to report this to you, specifying "I'm not telling you that you have to fix this. I'm just reporting this, and decide yourself if it's worth or not for the hotfix package."... but when I updated the forum page, I discovered you already completed the hotfix package. D'oh!

« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:03:23 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1524 on: January 16, 2014, 11:03:43 am »

Yep, too late. Won't be fixed.
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