Radiant and nub questions

[CGB01]

Hi,

I'm just getting started with Open Arena and love the work you've done on it.  What got me going into gaming was a YouTube video I saw about OA running on a Raspberry Pi.  Pretty neat stuff I thought and researched what Open Arena was all about.  Since then I've been leaching (as all nub do when they start) and would like to contribute to the project.  I have my own goals ultimately, but more about those at a later time. 

As I'm still very new at this, I'll limit this post to two questions;

1) I've read in the forum that the preferred flavour of Radiant is GtkRadiant.  The current version is 1.6.3 and I was wondering if anybody has created the necessary files for Open Arena (oa.game and associated config files)?  If so, where would a nub find them?

2) I've also noticed that there's a number of Radiant flavours our there (NetRadiant, CoDRadiant, GtkRadiant and Q3Radiant to name a few).  Each has slight differences on how to work with brushes.  For example, in GtkRadiant when working with a patch, you can select a row of verticies using the shift-LClick to select them,  A second click on the same vextor will change the plane (X or Y).  This does not work in NetRadiant.  This makes it rather hard to follow online examples.  Is there no common UI to radiant and is the a User Guide (PDF format) available for it?  I've yet to find any documentation on Radiant.

Thanks in advance and I hope I can contribute one way or another to this project.
Cheers!

[Akom74]

Hi, you can find the NETradiant prepared for OA here:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0

I hope this is helpful to you.




P.S.: I'm using Q3Radiant 202 to map for OA.

[CGB01]

P.S.: I'm using Q3Radiant 202 to map for OA

Of course you probably saw this coming...  Why Q3 version over the others?

TIA.

-Claude.

[fromhell]

I'm guessing for the convenience, though Q3 tools aren't recommended because they, mostly, will strictly expect a "baseq3" path or a "Quake III Arena" path, and often include Q3A map model meshes with them, strictly intended for use with Q3A.

[Gig]

You can find various infos starting from here:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials

(Note: The original Q3Radiant manual is also available as a .doc file in its folder ("Tools", IIRC) under Q3A).

[CGB01]

Thanks Gig.

[Akom74]

P.S.: I'm using Q3Radiant 202 to map for OA

Of course you probably saw this coming...  Why Q3 version over the others?

TIA.

-Claude.

Oh, is simply my choice  . I'm working better with Q3Radiant than GTK 1.6.
Just remove pk3 from Q3A and replace with the originals from OA. It work 

You can use another editor of course, Q3Radiant is better for me, but other users work wit NETradiant or GTKradiant.

[CGB01]

Ok, now that I've downloaded every single flavour of Radiant (with the exception of CoDRadiant as it needs the game installed to complete it's installation) I'm now trying to follow some samples/tutorials on making simple terrains (seems like a good starting place for a nub).

But I'm already pulling my hair out (and at 52, there's very little left!) trying to merge and weld patches!   

This is the tutorial I'm trying to follow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH8ABbY5eas).  It's a series of tutorials which walks you thru on how to manipulate patches and create simple terrains.

Unfortunately, it's using CoDRadiant which I don't have installed so I'm trying to do the same in other flavours of Radiant.  I've kind of settled on NetRadiant as I like the interface and works properly with multi-screen systems (GtKRadiant 1.6.3 is the worst for that).

So what I'm trying to figure out is patch welding.  In the video (time index 4:20 to about 5:20) he talks about welding two patches on using the verts.  I've only been able to join two patches using the BobToolz plugin and the verts of the two side you're trying to merge have to be touching.  Great for joining a flat floor, but useless when trying to join a patch that's going to used as a cliff face.

Is there no ^%$(#@! way of doing this in NetRadiant, GtkRadiant (1.5.0 or 1.6.3) or Q3Radiant???

HELP!

Thanks,
-Claude.

[Gig]

Cliffs? Maybe you may need to do some work with Blender.
I think the wiki has got a page about using Blender for maps. But I can't help you on such stuff, I don't know.

Q3Radiant mostly likes "regular" maps... with brushes as much aligned with the grid as possible. When you are in edit edges or verticles (E or V) modes, be sure that you don't move them in a way that makes two faces become one (don't use E or V to make a square become a triange). Even using "csg_subtract" and "free rotate" features (I don't remember exact names now) may cause "duplicate plane" errors when later making the aas (bot navigation) file, that may cause some kind of problem to bots.

[CGB01]

Well actually it making a road/path that I'm trying to accomplish.  But it doesn't really matter, it's welding patches that I'm trying to accomplish. 

You can see an example of what I'm trying to accomplish in Part 3 of the video starting at time index 5:30 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBZvZ-v1sqQ

Thanks,
-Claude.

[Akom74]

Hi Claude.

There is no way in Q3Radiant to weld a patch mesh, i've tried many way and many time but nothing work , sorry i can't help you. Maybe it's available for GTKradiant or NETradiant.

By the way, he talk about to unify the two patch, with this method you obtain an unique patch, and you cannot use two textures on this unique patch, if i understand what you want to do.
I mean, if you want to make a road in a valley, you have to use three patch, one for the road and two for the hills at the sides, if you understand what i mean, sorry but i'm Italian .

Or maybe, you can do it with polygon brushes and apply the texture-merge with a shader.
You can find one in OA. islandctf.shader is a good example, but you have to pratice with this kind of textures/shader.

[andrewj]

I think when the guy on the video talks about "welding", he just means merging two vertices together.

For example, if you have two rectangular patches A and each one will have four vertices.  Now if we place A and B side-by-side, A on left and B on right, the bottom-right vertex of A is near the bottom-left vertex of then all you want to do is merge those two vertices into a single vertex.  Do the same for the top pair as well.

Then the two patches are "welded" together, since they now share a pair of vertices.

I think that is what he means, but somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[CGB01]

Akom,

There is no way in Q3Radiant to weld a patch mesh, i've tried many way and many time but nothing work , sorry i can't help you. Maybe it's available for GTKradiant or NETradiant.

.
I've tried with GtkRadiant 1.5.0 and 1.6.3 and with NetRadiant.  Can't do it either in them

I mean, if you want to make a road in a valley, you have to use three patch, one for the road and two for the hills at the sides, if you understand what i mean, sorry but i'm Italian .

Yes I understand that I will need three patches to create the terrain I want.  One for the road itself, and two for each side of the road.

Andrew,

For example, if you have two rectangular patches A and each one will have four vertices.  Now if we place A and B side-by-side, A on left and B on right, the bottom-right vertex of A is near the bottom-left vertex of then all you want to do is merge those two vertices into a single vertex.  Do the same for the top pair as well.

Then the two patches are "welded" together, since they now share a pair of vertices.

Yes but even though the two patches have the exact same space location on the verts (X, Y, Z position) they are still not welded (or joined) as one patch.  If you look at Part 3 of his example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBZvZ-v1sqQ) at time index 6:45 you can see that he's bending the road by moving the verts of three patches and then joining them (by welding the verts) into a single patch.  This newly joined patch as Akom mentioned, can only have one texture applied to it.

I've sent an email to the author of the videos asking him the same question; how to do it in other flavours of Radiant or is this something specific to CoDRadiant.  If I get an answer back, I'll post it here for all.

Cheers!

[Akom74]

I've tried with GtkRadiant 1.5.0 and 1.6.3 and with NetRadiant.  Can't do it either in them

Maybe this feature is available only in CoDradiant ?? 

By the way, i think that you don't need this feature to merge the patches, if you merge two patches you maintain only a texture and not both.

[andrewj]

I wasn't sure if the road he (the guy in video) was making became one big patch or stayed as individual patches, but I thought the latter because:
1. near the start he says he likes to "work with small patches"
2. at one point he subdivides part of a road with more vertices, but only the middle part changes (there are about three parts / patches, and the other two don't change).

[CGB01]

After some more digging, I found out that you can't use CoDRadiant to edit ID3 maps.  Call of Duty started off using the ID3 game engine but evoled it into their own game engine (now called IW).  See http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Engine

I've looked at the content of a .map file in notepad and the format is completely different.

So now I'll have to look at other ways of creating terrains.  There's something called EasyGen (http://www.webalice.it/bancala/files_easygen.htm) that can be used to do this.  I'm going to play a little with it to see what I can get out of it.  You can have multiple textures and it generates the .map and shader file automatically.  Here's a good video on it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOIp2wE_10

As for welding patches, I've been able to get half decent results.  You can join two patches using the BobToolz plugin (which seems to be included with GtkRadiant 1.5.0 and 1.6.3 and NetRadiant.  I've not looked at Q3Radiant to see if it's there).

The trick to to make sure the two faces you are trying to join, have to be on the plane of all axis.  The verts have to all be at the same location, then it allows you to join them.

Andrew, if you follow the guy's video from the first part, you'll see that he likes to work with smaller patches and then join them together as he goes along.  The final result is one large patches that he's manipulated into a road with some terrain to the left and right of it.


Cheers!