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Author Topic: Please nerf LG in CTF if it is in insta-hit mode (forgot the variable)  (Read 2113 times)
cheb
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« on: October 30, 2016, 07:46:07 pm »

Unlagged LG is too good for defense and for shooting down flag carriers. It's virtually "if you are in their line of sight, you're dead, no save". The problem is, the flag carrier is not someone who can afford to stop and fight back, he'd get mobbed by the defenders hot on his heels like a stampede of angry Zerg.
There is a fine balance and the unlagged LG throws a wrench into it.

I forgot the exact name of the variable that fixes it to old behavior, but the sad truth that server owners either forget about it or do not care and i NEVER saw a server with that correction applied. Sad

Yeah, the DPS is "only" 160 against plasma gun's 200, but plasma balls can be dodged while LG death ray couldn't. grouch

Please, make it default behavior that IF the LG is not fixed (still in full unlag hitscan death-ray mode) AND the game mode is ctf THEN nerf its damage to 70..80% of its base value.

AFAIR, the same was applied to machinegun from the start, 5 damage in CTF instead of normal 7.

I also play a lot on a server where railgun is nerfed to 80 and is auto-nerfed more and more in case of many hits. That makes the game much more interesting because a healthy flag carrier cannot be stopped by just one hit.
But I do not propose that. Roll Eyes

Or, better, in the next version make the not-unlagged LG its DEFAULT state and see how many server owners care.
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Gig
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 08:28:32 am »

IIRC, machinegun causing 5 damage instead of 7 is in TDM mode only. It's that way since Q3A and that mode has been thought with different weapon pickup rules than other gametypes.

About the lightning gun parameter you mention, I don't know it. Maybe it's something from some mod? I suppose the nerfted railgun thing you mentioned is from some mod...

About delag, I thought there was only one option serverside (plus one option clientside) to enable or disable delag for ALL "hitscan" weapons at once. But there are many things I don't know.

Also, can someone explain to me about cg_truelighting behavior and how's that supposed to work in normal and unlagged modes? I only know that its default is 0.0 but I have to set it to 1.0 to see it straight... otherwise the beam is drawn going to where I was looking some time before (due to latence, I suppose), and this confuses my aim...
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Gig
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 12:16:56 pm »

Please, make it default behavior that IF the LG is not fixed (still in full unlag hitscan death-ray mode) AND the game mode is ctf THEN nerf its damage to 70..80% of its base value.
I fear that making a such change active by default may fall in NOTTODO territory.

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO
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DILZNIK
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 08:04:33 am »

I mentioned this before in another post/thread about a specific group of servers that has altered weapon damages. You should try out the :F servers for CTF.

http://www.stupidctf.tk/
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cheb
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 06:18:36 am »

Quote
making a such change active by default may fall in NOTTODO territory.
The question is: was the unlag hitscan a part of the original Q3?

if Yes, then you a re right.

if No, then it's fixing a "NOTTODO" thing you've already did. The original Q3 LG was *designed* to be hard to aim at a moving target and introducing the unlag hitscan BROKE that mechanism thus REDUCING q3 compatibility. Or didn't it?

So, which one is it?

Quote
the :F servers for CTF
That.  Cool

« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 06:29:09 am by cheb » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2016, 08:08:41 am »

I'm not 100% sure about "unlag hitscan"-related variables, but probably they are just these two:

- Server side: g_delagHitscan - default value is 0. So, it looks that by default the feature is not enabled server-side.
- Client side (I guess it's client-side): cg_delag - default value is 1. However, I suppose the client-side value is irrelevant, if the server has the feature turned off.
If I am missing something, please tell me.

IIRC, the GUI asks you if you wish to enable "delag hitscan" the very first time you access "multipayer" menu (I don't remember if the option is already lit or not). I'm not sure if that has got effect on only one of the two variables, or both.
Later using the GUI "Game Options" window to turn on or off "Unlag hitscan" option sets both values to 1 or to 0 -tested in 0.8.8-. There, the option is shown already lit or not depending from your cg_delag value.... maybe in OA3 there may be two different controls in the GUI for the client-side option and for the server-side one?

Other than that, a few more thoughts:
- I can guess that also back to Q3A, "singleplayer" and "local network" gaming was expected, other than internet gaming. I don't know about Q3A altering weapons damage depending from singleplayer or multiplayer mode...
- While the feature makes the lightning gun stronger, that's the same for all users having it (unless someone decided to turn off his own client "delag" feature for some reason), and that's the same for all hitscan weapons: machinegun, shotgun, railgun, chaingun. So, you can use other weapons to deal with the lightning gun user.
- I do remember about this page with a FAQ section about the old "Unlagged" mod for Q3A. I have never really understood if the delag code inside OpenArena is directly or indirectly derived from the code of that mod.
- I'm not completely against adding the ability to reduce LG (or RG) damage, but I think it should be disabled by default.

PS: "the fussy corner"  Grin:
thus REDUCING q3 compatibility.
I would call "Q3 compatibility" the ability to load mods, maps, models and bots designed for Q3A.
Preserving Q3A gameplay is important of course, but I would not call it "compatibility".
Sorry for the excessive fussiness.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 08:37:40 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
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