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Author Topic: q3dm17 redux for OA  (Read 2926 times)
carca55gr1nd3r
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« on: August 16, 2017, 03:55:53 pm »

I have fooling around to test if I can redo an original Q3 map for OA just by analyze the map on the original game.
So here my output of q3dm17 redux for OA. Close to the original but feels different somehow.  Undecided

https://app.box.com/s/xa1c4uggu08vwakwz5h5fa58qfzdlm92
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Gig
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 04:15:59 pm »

For logistic reasons (holidays), I will not be able to properly test it before a couple of weeks..
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 03:15:43 pm »

I don't know if OA need another q3dm17 map, but you miss that OA have different player size.

The map infact seems tiny... XD

By the way good job. Beware of caulked brushes !! Smiley Tongue
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 08:12:07 am »

OA3 won't have remakes of other games, but I'll be glad to add this map to the Tribute mappack. Smiley
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 02:33:04 pm »

OA3 won't have remakes of other games, but I'll be glad to add this map to the Tribute mappack. Smiley

That would be a honor for me to add this to the Tribute mappack. Kiss

I guess I need to fix some issues on the current version to deliver a good result. punched 
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2017, 11:38:37 am »

Okay, have tweak the map now a little bit regarding size, caulked brushes and items.


https://app.box.com/s/iwd6k9p2za1b5xz1wxgqbv7xg2r411li
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Gig
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 01:10:10 am »

Quickly tried. It looks nice and seems to play well enough (more testing about that would be necessary). Smiley Good job!

However, can I say that I miss some of the features of DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Wrackdm17]wrackdm17? I refer to the additional items and to the anti-camp position of the railgun platform (which is placed lower than the main arena in wrackdm17). I would like to know what others think about this.

Other things I noticed:
- The platform shown in the first attached screenshot may be wider.
- Using "noclip" to go to read the message placed under the arena (which turned out to be "beta test"), I passed through the floor of the arena, and saw some "missing textures" (see second screenshot). Well, players are not supposed to see those surfaces, but fixing them may still be good.
- Once, I got hit during the jump to reach the rail platform, and the extra speed that gave me caused me to crash against the invisible wall behind the platform. So, maybe you may consider placing the invible walls around the arena a bit farther away.
- Playing with DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Game_physics]"accurate" physics, I had the impression the jumppads which bring you to the quad damage platform may need a little bit more push...

Also, do you think this map may be adapt for Possession gametype? Not being included in OA 0.8.x, instructions to support it are not yet included DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Additional_gametype_support]in the mapping manual page about extra modes, but IIRC, all you need to do is to add a neutral flag with "pos" gametype key (also, "pos" is the gametype name for the .arena file).... then test with a recent DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OpenArena_eXpanded]OAX test mod (you can grab it from nightly builds) in gametype 13.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:23:15 am by Gig » Logged

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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 02:13:03 pm »

Many thanks for your comment Gig

Quickly tried. It looks nice and seems to play well enough (more testing about that would be necessary). Smiley Good job!

However, can I say that I miss some of the features of DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Wrackdm17]wrackdm17? I refer to the additional items and to the anti-camp position of the railgun platform (which is placed lower than the main arena in wrackdm17). I would like to know what others think about this.

Yeah, I am aware about that detail at wrackdm17. My intention was to get an as close as possible version to the original dm17 and the possibility to camp at the rail platform is the nature ot the map.
wrackdm17 is a nice variation of dm17 the only think that was always stange to me was the increesed size of wrackdm17. I also fail with the size at the end but in my opinion the flow of movement on my version is more fun than wrackdm17.

Just my opinion:
Size of maps at fast arena shooter like openarena is like salt and pepper at a meal. The wrong size, doesn't matter to big or to small can destroy the flow and fun of the game.


Other things I noticed:
- The platform shown in the first attached screenshot may be wider.
Will look on it, for now I agree
- Using "noclip" to go to read the message placed under the arena (which turned out to be "beta test"), I passed through the floor of the arena, and saw some "missing textures" (see second screenshot). Well, players are not supposed to see those surfaces, but fixing them may still be good.
Wow you found it Smiley. Well, yes the map is a remake but I made it from the scratch and there ar fails and mistakes for sure Smiley therefore I made the Beta Test spirit fo show it and remind me "Still not final"
- Once, I got hit during the jump to reach the rail platform, and the extra speed that gave me caused me to crash against the invisible wall behind the platform. So, maybe you may consider placing the invible walls around the arena a bit farther away.
Have note that too Tongue ... that was my first "space style map" ever but that fix is a piece of cake 
- Playing with DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Game_physics]"accurate" physics, I had the impression the jumppads which bring you to the quad damage platform may need a little bit more push...
Okay, thanks. Thats the input I need to fix the issues for a final version. Many Thanks ... will look to it.
Also, do you think this map may be adapt for Possession gametype? Not being included in OA 0.8.x, instructions to support it are not yet included DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Additional_gametype_support]in the mapping manual page about extra modes, but IIRC, all you need to do is to add a neutral flag with "pos" gametype key (also, "pos" is the gametype name for the .arena file).... then test with a recent DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OpenArena_eXpanded]OAX test mod (you can grab it from nightly builds) in gametype 13.

Oh, I do not know that gametype sounds nice thanks for the hint  giggity

thanks a lot you all for your feedback
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 02:17:11 pm »

Sorry for spam here again.

I just want to know if I breake the law by doing that map in the closed way to the original one and released as a GPL'd (v2)?

And can some one give me a link to detailed information for releasing maps proper to GPL'd (v2) also for my other maps.  
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:22:13 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 07:00:39 am »

I just want to know if I breake the law by doing that map in the closed way to the original one and released as a GPL'd (v2)?
I'm not sure about the boundary where an homage becomes a plagiarism. Your version is technically re-made from scratch (right?) and there are so many derivatives of q3dm17 that probably Bethesda will not care about one more or less, but I can't tell for sure.

Quote
And can some one give me a link to detailed information for releasing maps proper to GPL'd (v2) also for my other maps.  
Some information is here: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ#What_about_licensing.3F
You need to include a license file with the text of the GPLv2 (I hope a copy of OA "COPYING" file may be enough... or you can find the license here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html). And you need to include the "sources" of your assets (the .map file of course is required for any map, but you should also include a .blend file if you created a model with Blender, a .psd if you worked on a multilayer image with Photoshop or .xcf in case of GIMP -single layer images probably don't need a source file-, etc. "Open" formats are preferred, if possible).
I suppose using "GPLv2+" instead of "GPLv2 only" is more advisable.

Someone else may give more accurate infos than me...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 10:48:21 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 09:24:12 am »

As far as I'm concerned (and unless I'm missing something), if you release the source of your map so we can see how it is built, there should be no problems. Then again, q3dm17 wasn't released under the GPLv2 (the sample maps which come with the q3 pack in Radiant don't count, as they aren't released under the GPL).
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 12:46:34 pm »

Thanks guys for your help Smiley

Yes my version was done from the scratch:
Open NetRadiant and draw every single brush by myself. I just fired up original game Q3A and run the original map with /devmap and rebuild it by watch and analyse the original map with /noclip.  Huh

The source map file is included at the pk3 file and can be opened by NetRadiant.

What sample maps of Radiant you talk about? My version of NetRadiant do not contain any sample maps at all.

Cheers
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Gig
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2017, 01:44:30 pm »

What sample maps of Radiant you talk about? My version of NetRadiant do not contain any sample maps at all.
He was probably referring to the original Q3Radiant from Id Software, which came with .map files for q3dm1, q3dm7, q3dm17 and maybe another one I don't remember now. They were examples/starting points for those who wanted to start mapping...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2017, 03:02:27 pm »

Yep, the same three maps from q3test. The other map was q3tourney2, which was added to the demo, but not to the q3pack (mapmedia).
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2017, 04:54:44 pm »

Also FYI those sample maps are not GPLed.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2017, 06:30:33 am »

Also FYI those sample maps are not GPLed.

Yes that was mentioned by Neon_Knight.

But how is it in case of my reconstruckted q3dm17?
Can it be released under GPL when bulild it from scratch by explore the original map at the original Q3 map by use of /devmap and /noclip focused to get a as close as possible result?

Maybe you have the most exp. with that subject as project leader From Hell?

Would also be nice to know for me because I also working currently on same project to rebuild tourney2 by using same procedure.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 07:42:51 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 11:09:12 am »

Well, if you built it from scratch, of course it can be released as GPL! I still have to play your versions. Had a problem with my PC (mobo or CPU died, replacing them these days) so I couldn't play it.
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Gig
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2017, 01:00:05 pm »

Well, if you built it from scratch, of course it can be released as GPL!
I'm still not 100% sure this is really safe. For what I can recall from when I used to contribute to Italian Wikipedia some years ago, you theoretically can't draw and publish a Goku vs Vegeta draw with your hands without the permission of the copyright holder of those characters, because you hare making a "derivative work" of something which is copyrighted. "Fair use" may give you some shielding (fan art?), but "fair use" is a very different thing from GPL, I guess...
I have no idea about how those "derivative work" concepts may affect a game map... (or even plagiarism)...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:52:48 pm by Gig » Logged

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Akom74
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2017, 03:28:48 am »

To avoid some copyright problems, carca55gr1nd3r can add some brush work.

Wink
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2017, 03:46:48 am »

I'm still not 100% sure this is really safe. For what I can recall from when I used to contribute to Italian Wikipedia some years ago, you theoretically can't draw and publish a Goku vs Vegeta draw with your hands without the permission of the copyright holder of those characters, because you hare making a "derivative work" of something which is copyrighted.
Sounds more like potential trademark infringement. It should be mentioned that trademark law is different from copyright law. If you break copyright the copyright holder MAY take action but does not loose the copyright if they don't. If you break a trademark the trademark holder MUST take action or they may loose the trademark.
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There are nothing offending in my posts.
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2017, 05:28:37 pm »

have now also finalized the boxing of a q3tournament2 version for OA. Attached just a prealpha version to show the work on progress.
No Items, no jump pads and no teleporter insert. Also no details and optimation yet.

 

« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 05:38:12 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 09:57:50 am »

When you finish q3tourney2, please upload it. Smiley
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