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Author Topic: New map (CTF layout)  (Read 1529 times)
Neon_Knight
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« on: September 07, 2017, 06:20:47 pm »

Started a new own map after a LONG time.

This time I've recycled a map I've started for the OACMP2. A CTF map which also supports the related gametypes.

Long story short: this time I'll try a different approach. First I want to get the layout right, therefore it is blocky (easily modifiable) and with no lighting at all. Visuals will come later. Also added an initial weapon/item placement.

Known issues:
- Buttons don't work as intended. The idea for them is to be used for the BFG cage. The BFG itself is extremely risky to get because you depend on your teammates to get it and risk getting drowned and trapped in the process with no way out unless your teammate helps you. FIXED in a1v2.
- Arrows to bases don't show.
- Map was compiled without -light. This was on purpose.
- Bot play doesn't work.

Screenshots attached
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:59:03 am by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 01:00:17 am »

More screenies
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Gig
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 01:25:08 am »

Hearing that you are back on mapping is really good news!  Smiley

About the map:
- Good, but maybe it may have been a bit smaller? It gives a bit of "dwarfish" feeling, maybe.
- The energy grids are visible from one side only.
- Do the buttons actually open the cage? I have not been able to see it open, not even setting g_speed 1000 to get there faster. And I have not been able to order a bot to camp on the button because the provided aas file results "out of date".
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 08:08:32 am »

Hearing that you are back on mapping is really good news!  Smiley
Thank you!

- Good, but maybe it may have been a bit smaller? It gives a bit of "dwarfish" feeling, maybe.
Yeah, that's a valid concern. I may paliate it by adding obstacles and stuff for cover. But size is an issue, indeed.

- The energy grids are visible from one side only.

- Do the buttons actually open the cage? I have not been able to see it open, not even setting g_speed 1000 to get there faster.
They should. I have to check them, then. The idea, however, is that getting the BFG should be a team effort: one of your teammates open the cage and you get in, and wait for your teammate to open the cage again so you can escape with it. Therefore you get the BFG and wreak havoc, but at the cost of getting trapped and drowned.

And I have not been able to order a bot to camp on the button because the provided aas file results "out of date".
Also will get corrected. I haven't finished setting the environment up when I decided to open the editor again.

BTW, my main concerns: how long it does take to capture the flag in the shortest and longest paths? Is it easy to defend? Is it easy to attack?
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 08:27:12 am »

Hi Neon_Knight

Why so squared? Tongue Try to bring some nice angles to your brushwork. ccool

Have take your map file and edit it a little bit to show my point.  punched In my opinion the look, feeling and gameplay gets benefit by this.
Only the main room is touched by me the rest of the map could also get such style.

I also find the map to big therefore I have also make the main room a little bit smaller. topsy

Cheers
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 02:18:03 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 11:24:26 am »

sorry dude I was somehow on fire..  sick

have fix the doors too  shifty
The key angle has missed I just add it and set it to -2, so the doors opens downward.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 02:23:06 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 06:16:43 am »

Thank you, cg! I'll take a look at your changes when I come back to home. Cheesy

Yeah, I've been notified of the scale issue, something I want to tackle on ASAP.
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 02:26:15 pm »

btw regarding playbility of the map: The concept of the map is realy awesome  Wink ... when the whole map is reduced down by size I see no issues you need to concerning for. My last change cause that the connection way gets longer, which can be frustrated for gameplay if the routes are to long.  Huh So my suggestion is to continue reducing the size.

I know the down size on Radiant can be also ended in frustration it can become a pain in the ass. punched Therefore I use to check the size at the very begining before finalize the whole blocking. Wink

« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 05:56:58 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 11:09:15 pm »

Yep, long routes in CTF is usually a no-no. See: the original Hydronex, czest2ctf, czest3ctf.

There's a reason why the most popular OA CTF maps are oasago2 and both versions of ps37ctf.
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Gig
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 01:11:00 am »

Neon Knight, you asked how long it took to go from flag to flag?
The most direct path, through water, took me about 45 seconds.
A path starting from a flag and going left, keeping the left as possible, passing all ground floor except a relatively short underwater section at the end took me about 32 seconds.
A path starting from a flag, taking the ramp and keeping the right took about 22 seconds. I'm not an excellent strafejumper, doing the same without jumping at all took me about 32 seconds.
This refers to am_bioxide-a1v2.

A thing I noticed is that, using other routes, I found myself "lost" at times.

carca55gr1nd3r, your changes look nice. However, probably NK wished to do the general layout right before adding in details.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:16:50 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 02:52:00 am »

carca55gr1nd3r, your changes look nice. However, probably NK wished to do the general layout right before adding in details.

Yes I know some details was too early done, all the fancy stuff but I was so inspired and dont want to loose the vision I have seen from the main layout.

But some of the angled brushwork and size fix shall be included at the very begining while the boxing stage.

cheers
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 06:02:43 am »

I still haven't decided which visual theme would suit the map's layout.

There should have been arrows guiding to the bases, but somehow these didn't end in the a1v2. Though I'm not sure if I should keep the lateral routes or remove them.
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 06:24:08 am »

I still haven't decided which visual theme would suit the map's layout.

There should have been arrows guiding to the bases, but somehow these didn't end in the a1v2. Though I'm not sure if I should keep the lateral routes or remove them.

By such a complex structure like your layout directions are needed ... don't miss them !!!
In my head a nice idea for the direction signs comes up. It  need some shader and gfx work. If you like I can creat it and show a demo....


regarding routes .... thats realy shows only a intensive test game between humans. with bots it will maybe get a wrong opinion.


EDIT: See attached the texture I have done. It shall became together with a shader like a "digital LED screen sign in a closed box"

EDIT2: done the prototype of the texture shader for the "digital LED screen sign in a closed box" see my last attached screenshot  Evil
here also a samplemap with the included texture and shader :
https://app.box.com/s/rvff72efs9oziui59hlea27uncghlug6
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 05:19:44 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 08:34:23 am »

As far as I know, there are some (more subtle) arrow textures in the official packs for CTF maps.

Right now I'm working on the map. Smiley

Things to be done:
- Scale down at least 50%
- Energy grid
- Fix the buttons
- Fix AAS
- Fix the "map too square" issue with curves
- Arrows guiding to bases
- Adding jumppads, holes in walkways and the like. Allow players from the upper level to see the BFG.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 09:21:44 pm »

Tackled (hopefully) everything but some of the issues. I'll tackle these the next time.

DOWNLOAD

a1v3 CHANGES:
- The middle area was redesigned. (Thanks carcassgrinder!)
- Buttons fixed.
- AAS fixed.
- Several hallways and areas were turned into curves by way of patches. The map should be less square this way.
- Arrows!
- Plenty of jumppads. Especially in the central area.
- Added two large healths in the central water pool.
- Improved and added support for Double Domination.

SCREENSHOTS!











To do:
- First phase of lighting.
- Fix the BFG cell.
- Tackle the scale issue.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:04:28 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Gig
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 12:32:16 am »

Good! I tried the map with some bots, it seems playable.  Smiley

A1v3 CHANGES:
- Buttons fixed.
It looks like that one of the two energy doors still does not open.
Quote
- Arrows!
They are the best addition! Thank you very much! Thanks to them, now even the map itself does not feel as large as before!

Other:
- Console log reveals that there are two shotguns which do not spawn due to being "in solid".
- Where is the rocket launcher? I haven't found it yet... probably my fault.
- What about adding runes?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 12:41:37 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 07:00:17 am »

A1v3 CHANGES:
- Buttons fixed.
It looks like that one of the two energy doors still does not open.
From the bases' viewpoints the left button should open the left forcefield while the right one should open the right forcefield. I'll try this.

Quote
- Arrows!
They are the best addition! Thank you very much! Thanks to them, now even the map itself does not feel as large as before!
Well, there's a reason why one of the recommended practices for CTF maps are the arrows. Smiley
Now I'm curious, does the capture time increase or decrease with the arrows?

Other:
- Console log reveals that there are two shotguns which do not spawn due to being "in solid".
Bug confirmed, two shotguns, one per base, were meant to spawn in the big pillar area, but got embedded accidentally in the geometry. Fixed.

- Where is the rocket launcher? I haven't found it yet... probably my fault.
There should be two per base, one in the pillar zone and another on the flag base at the curve. However thanks to your report I've found another bug, the red RL doesn't spawn in the flag room. So, bug confirmed. And fixed.

- What about adding runes?
Hmmm... I can consider that.
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 07:52:14 am »

From the bases' viewpoints the left button should open the left forcefield while the right one should open the right forcefield. I'll try this.
Isn't that too complicated for the users? Couldn't just every button open both doors?

You already have to ask a teammate to stay on the button without dying to soon, to allow you to get the bfg... do you even need to tell him "which one" he has to stay on? In that case, at least make them more easy to identify (e.g. "green button" and "yellow button")...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:55:15 am by Gig » Logged

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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 01:16:40 pm »

BTW: Here a "how to easy test the buttons when ya alone at the map" or short "HTETTBWYAATM Guide":

- fire up OpenArena and turn off the full screen mode change the resolution that it fit approx. 60 till 30 % at your monitor screen.

- load the map by the console

- after entering the map put your self above a button so the button stays activated.

- open the console to be able to leave the mouse from the game and enter the desktop of your PC

- start a second time OpenArena (remember the first OpenArena is still maintain with the map!)

- enter the console again and type /connect  127.0.0.1
or try to connect at multiplayer the local server that shall be shown till the first Openarena process is inside the map.

- now you can check the energy door with the second connection. if you want to toggle the player use the console to leave each OA window, with this procedure you can easy verify every button.

 And be carefully and don't shoot your self Tongue
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 04:43:11 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2017, 10:39:10 am »

From the bases' viewpoints the left button should open the left forcefield while the right one should open the right forcefield. I'll try this.
Isn't that too complicated for the users? Couldn't just every button open both doors?

You already have to ask a teammate to stay on the button without dying to soon, to allow you to get the bfg... do you even need to tell him "which one" he has to stay on? In that case, at least make them more easy to identify (e.g. "green button" and "yellow button")...
Yep. Remember that the BFG is an unbalancing superweapon. Whoever gets it can clean up the base and do absolute chaos... to both his enemies and teammates. It's only a logical thing that such a weapon is hard to get and that if you want that extreme power you need to put your life at risk.
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2017, 10:20:00 am »

Quote
Remember that the BFG is an unbalancing superweapon.
1. Not that unbalancing and not that super (I love using it on ctf4ish and... ziggurats, I think?). Against organized team defense effort a lone BFG guy is nothing (proved time and again by my ass being handed to me, despite me being a bfg pro)
2. Noobs tend firing it in long burts wasting their ammo without hitting much (they are so awed by it they forget to aim  shifty )
3. The defenders fragged you. Now *they* have the  bfg giggity Come get some!

Quote
if you want that extreme power you need to put your life at risk.
Ctf4ish does that well, but I finally invented, then mastered a jump that lets you get it on the go. Everyone uses it now, with up to 3 bfgs in play sometimes.
I can't say that makes the game less fun.
I even remember losing 0:8 while grabbing the bfg constantly and slaying a lot. My frag count was through the roof... and didn't matter, because we *lost*.
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2017, 11:10:00 am »

P.S.

Also, unless I'm behind the times, we are talking teams of mute mimes here. To help your teammate you have to guess what he is doing.

I'd suggest a button that turns a *colored* barrier on (the pusher's team color), one that disappears if touched by the same color player.
So it acts like an opportunisting trap for enemy players Evil
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2017, 02:32:25 pm »

NEW VERSION FOR DOWNLOAD!

Changelog:
  • Map renamed to oac_bioxide-a1v4
  • First pass of lighting
  • Overall scale lowered to 0.5
  • Fixed red RL and both Shotguns not appearing in the map.
  • First pass of visuals, but only to the underwater tunnel, and subject to change.
  • Buttons now work as intended.
  • Clipped ramps so they can emit the footstep sound.
To-Do:
  • Fix the BFG cell -.- For some reason I can't make the barrier to appear double sided.
  • In some areas the player hits their head with the ceiling. Another thing to fix.
  • Reduce the overdraw by making the underwater entrances non-rect.
The Usual Concerns: (Requires tests in CTF 5v5 against Tony players or Tony bots in Nightmare)
  • How long does it take to make a capture in the shortest route?
  • How long does it take to make a capture in the longest route?
  • How long does it take to make a capture in the shortest route without trickjumping?
  • How long does it take to make a capture in the longest route without trickjumping?
  • How easy is to defend the own flag?
  • How easy is to get the enemy flag and escape with it to the own base?
  • How well the player can see other players? Which areas need to be more lit?
Screenshots:








« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 03:45:54 pm by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 02:36:46 pm »

Oops... I just saw your posts, cheb!

Fixing the BFG cell is on my to-do list.
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 06:30:39 am »

I'd suggest a button that turns a *colored* barrier on (the pusher's team color), one that disappears if touched by the same color player.
I fear the game does not support that kind of logic...
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