Poll
Question: Enable black names? (read post first please)
Yes - 18 (46.2%)
oh well why not - 3 (7.7%)
yes, with some changes - 4 (10.3%)
preferably not - 5 (12.8%)
No - 9 (23.1%)
Total Voters: 38

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Author Topic: callvote enable_blackname  (Read 17306 times)
RMF
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« on: March 05, 2010, 02:39:56 PM »

Hello all,

as you might have noticed, I'm not so happy with 085. Most things are either changable (physics) or minor (no semi-colomn so i can't wink to pretty players Sad), but one thing which just stunned me are the sencored black colors in the name. If it were only me, ok that's bad luck, but our clan tag and membernames solely exists of black and blue.
We've already tried some other color combinations, although not excessively much, but it all just sucks.

I've searched some why it was suddenly disabled, and it appears it is concidered cheating. I just cannot imagine.
In the topic an example was used: a large space map where you have to aim at someone on the other side of the map, who has a black name and stands/flies on a background of black space. You wouldn't see his name, and because he is too far away you wouldn't see him either. Well if you can't see him, it is unlikely that you would aim there trying to see his name to aim. Second the name doesn't appear immediadly when you hover above someone, so aiming would be practicly impossible anyway. A black model would be far worse in this case (why brightskins?). And I don't know about others, though I don't look if a name appears before i shoot. You can even turn it off, though I often like to know who I kill (you can check who's the most important target). But this does not apply in the example as you can barely or not aim anyway. Even a close noob would be a bigger threat.
Btw you always need another color in your name before you can use black. At least a ^, though most players have more colors in it.
And the short names, why aren't those disabled then? Not that I am for that either, but playernames which exist of only a period or apostrophe are far less visible than someone with a black name on an average background.

Now when reading the topic further I saw Airwolf made two suggestions I really like (anything better than this "solution" at least).
Quote
1. If OA detects that you are trying to use a name with all black characters it will force your name to white, or random joyful colors.
2. Add a cvar to force all black characters to white for ppl that simply hate black characters entirely.
Both of them are really good ideas imo: the first wouldn't affect our clantag/name as we have already 3 other colored characters in our tag only, and the second is just their problem that they force our name to look bad. Or as Airwolf said a combination of those (so if only black colors in a name turn them to white, or both force other colors and make the option to change black to white).
I think all those options are better than the current policy.

Now last but not least I would ask you to vote in the poll what you think about the matter.
If you just have no problem with it or even prefer it enabled, vote the first option. No opinions preferably vote second (I mean if you got no opinion whynot allow black names Smiley). If you prefer one of those options Airwolf suggested, vote option #3. If you for whatever reason don't quite like it you can vote 4, and for the die-hard haters there is the last option.

Thanks for reading this all,
Regards,
RMF.
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CorteX
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 02:55:44 PM »

Hi/hallo,

There's a lot of major and minor things wrong with 0.8.5 - competitively - I'm sure players like you and me would agree...
For the subject you're calling upon here, black names.. Hm. It's a shame they changed it, indeed. It used to be perfect. You weren't able to make an all-black nick anyway because of the extra '^' that's required, giving you the ability to identify your target pretty easily if you roughly know what player/nicks (those things seem to be pretty mixed up, but I take a part in this LOL) are in the server. But I'm basically repeating what you said there..

My thought is.. Why did they even touch this aspect? They seem to have touched way more aspects of the totality in the patch than we like. The physics and weird vertex setup being priority.. I do not understand the reasoning behind it, assuming it was a conscious change, nothing like programmer laziness.

I'll check the poll.

Oh by the way. Try watching demo's recorded in older versions. What a shame Sad
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RMF
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 05:31:35 AM »

hm looking at the poll, could someone explain why he/she voted for preferably not or no? Why not? Same argument as before; it is cheating?
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pulchr
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2010, 08:27:50 AM »

i'm one player not particular keen on players with black names. for example i've played against players using the same clan tags in coloured prefixes and then all black names. i think that's pretty cheap as i can't see which player i'm aiming at in darker maps. and for me it's essential to know WHO i'm aiming at as it can be very important to finish off someone that i know are low in health or that carries a good weapon. and with coloured tags and black names i don't know which guy in their team i'm aiming at.

for people that don't remember the old discussion that thread is here.

if the game had outlines (inverted colours) around the text i guess it wouldn't be a problem. or a setting that lets us haters turn black character into some other colour. i actually don't care of their tags or names doesn't look cool - i just want to shoot at them...
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2010, 09:05:49 AM »

+1 @ pulchr Tongue
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MIOW
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 12:32:17 AM »

for example i've played against players using the same clan tags in coloured prefixes and then all black names.

6R. We were OpenArena clan for about 1,5 year and also the most active clan for a significant period of time. And it seems that we were yet active in OA when decision to remove black color was taken. It's basically showing disrespect to the community. Also, ripping Quake Live off.

for people that don't remember the old discussion that thread is here.

Compromise solutions were suggested in that thread, but none of them implemented.
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Udi
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 05:10:50 PM »

One Hungarian player gyu drew my attention to the fact that black is still available in the console and chat lines. Even if you set your name to ^8Something your name will be orange on the HUD, but will be displayed black in the chatlines when you frag or talk. So I think that Airwolf's suggestion "replace black with some joyful color" was implemented indeed.

Why not making this: ^8 should be always orange (it's pretty) and black should be possible with the double character ^^0 or as Airwolf suggested: turn black dark grey like #333333 or #555555.
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MIOW
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »

Well then that suggestion is the worst one actually.

Why not implement the second option since it's the best one.

And for 4 years of OA existence black names were fine... But now it's time to rip Quake Live off.

btw Warsow has QL-like frag notifications but keeps black color for names, OA is vice versa, even though those frag notifications were already developed by schlorri.

Why rip this feature off and not another, which could be really useful? This is ridiculous.
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RMF
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 07:39:31 PM »

Well anything better than the current.
I think best solution is making an option to change it to whatever they personally like. That way it's most customisable, and so it fits what everyone likes Smiley
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Falkland
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 04:38:27 AM »

One Hungarian player gyu drew my attention to the fact that black is still available in the console and chat lines. Even if you set your name to ^8Something your name will be orange on the HUD, but will be displayed black in the chatlines when you frag or talk. So I think that Airwolf's suggestion "replace black with some joyful color" was implemented indeed.

Why not making this: ^8 should be always orange (it's pretty) and black should be possible with the double character ^^0 or as Airwolf suggested: turn black dark grey like #333333 or #555555.

Actually schlorri implemented a rainbow color scheme after my suggestion, that has an extended set of colors and 2 grey color tonalities instead of black :
- http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3095.msg26343#msg26343
- http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3095.msg26411#msg26411
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RMF
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 07:10:50 AM »

So why isn't it working then...
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Falkland
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 08:27:45 AM »

So why isn't it working then...

Because it was not included in the current version ( as other good things ;-) )
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RMF
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 08:29:01 AM »

Oh I thought it was build in already
Quote
schlorri implemented a rainbow color scheme

So is it going to be implimented?
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Falkland
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 08:41:52 AM »

So is it going to be implimented?

You are asking for it to the wrong person :-D
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RMF
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 12:21:06 PM »

Wouldn't the right person (fromhell I assume) read this? Smiley
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fromhell
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2010, 01:57:10 PM »

If you think a loss of not having a unreadable black name is meaning to you maybe you should reconsider especially since there is a lot of other online games that do not allow black names that came *BEFORE* Quake Live

People apparently take my 'don't knock off q3' the wrong way and out of context. There is no use in a black almost invisible name.
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new code development on github
RMF
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2010, 05:06:17 PM »

If we played another game where black wasn't possible we obviously wouldn't have chosen a black name.
And if you look at the maps, i've never seen a black wall. Only once a small black button. So the only place it's unreadable is when you have to aim in the sky, and have the bad luck there's some space background or you have r_fastsky 1.
Ofc it's about it in general, but you wouldn't see our name often in the sky as space maps suck in insta (io is mainly insta clan).
And i do not care in any way if the game is a rip-off from Q3 or not. Neither do i care about any other game ppl might possibly argue OA is like.
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MIOW
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2010, 01:40:36 AM »

Ofc it's about it in general, but you wouldn't see our name often in the sky as space maps suck in insta (io is mainly insta clan).

Space maps suck in general Smiley

If you think a loss of not having a unreadable black name is meaning to you maybe you should reconsider especially since there is a lot of other online games that do not allow black names that came *BEFORE* Quake Live

Yea, but somehow OA was not one of those games for 4 years until QL became public. Even that thread took place at the same time when QL was released for Linux. Obvious rip off is obvious.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 04:07:57 AM by MIOW » Logged
Logan
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2010, 09:54:17 AM »

I didn't know that black was disabled in this version. I had trouble with it in 0.8.1 though so I just use a different color...

It's certainly not cheating.

I've seen people complain about that in Quake 3, but I don't think i have in OA. Either way, I vote bring it back and make it as easy as it is to use in Quake 3

^0 for black
^1 for red

^0*^1Logan^0*
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jumalauta
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2010, 06:11:56 AM »

When I play, I prefer to use a green/black combination like I've done for the last few years in Quake.

Copyleft

and with tags,

/N/Copyleft

I think removing black names removes a lot of freedom for customization.


Solutions..

-Somehow (if possible) make Black names show up as white when aiming at somehow. In Jedi Academy (based on q3) all names show as Red when you are aiming.

-Change black to a dark grey

-Other options?
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PWNAGE
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2010, 11:14:34 PM »

YES!!! Defiantly Yes
I finally get OA working again (i had a bad computer =D) and my name is orange!!! WTF
Back to my first 3 words YES!!! Defiantly Yes
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Ghost
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 08:53:04 AM »

Black names + white skins there should be no aiming problem i guess.
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Gig
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2011, 09:27:06 AM »

Black names will be partially available in the next version of OpenArena: try a recent DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/OAX]OAX beta. Black will be shown as black, if there will be at least a character of a different color in the name.
Completely black names will be still blocked (shown as white), but partially black names will be working.

About white skins, maybe new versions may include some lighter skins, but DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO]I fear no proper "bright skins" or cg_enemymodel. Of course, one may use DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mods/AfterShock]AfterShock mod or some other mod that supports them.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 02:26:44 PM »

The real problem with the skins and maps is that it IS (regardless of whoever says the contrary, this is not a game where hiding in shadows is a vital part of the game) a problem of the game. Brightskins shouldn't ever be a necessity if the game has already visible models and skins. And I'm not talking about single-colored ugly skins, like the brightskins in Quake Live, or every attempt at brightskins people made up until now.

As Sago has pointed out several times, every skin should be visible in every map with r_gamma 1. Ergo, it is a problem of the maps (a problem I'm trying to avoid in my own maps) and/or the skins, if they're too dark. (example: Tony)
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Bane
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2011, 06:18:27 PM »

I have played against players with just dots for names like blue dot on the digichalk server and red dot on the same server. They really where not that much harder to hit pretty much that same as players with longer names but I guess for a new player it might be harder.

The black names I have not really come across that many usually I fight people with names that look like a rainbow. However  when I first started playing I did come across some and there name did seem to blend into the blackness of space. Maybe an outline like pulchr said would be a kind of compromise. Anyway I don’t get the whole colorful names with symbols in it stuff anyway I just left my name plain old white.
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