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Author Topic: Recap improvements needed in the Wiki site - Where?  (Read 133639 times)
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2012, 09:01:27 AM »

@Gig: Yeah, I've used just the levelshots. They are the first thing many people see about the map before loading the map proper, hence it's inclusion.

I think no screen shot should be under 1024x768. It is very frustrating not to be able to click the images larger.
Hence why I'm replacing all the screenshots of the maps.
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Gig
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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2012, 09:44:47 AM »

I think no screen shot should be under 1024x768. It is very frustrating not to be able to click the images larger.
Note: not the case with OA maps... but remember the exception of the case of fair use, when "low resolution" is required (I suppose 640x480 okay there).
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2012, 03:39:35 PM »

Since Gig is going to be RL'd, it would be a good idea for 0.8.8 to gather more mod testers.

So far, I'm redoing all the mod pages on the wiki (and adding some more) giving them a common template.

Oh, and the extra stuff in the Mod compatibility page is now in the pages proper. Better that way, only mod pages needs to be updated.

EDIT: Finshed until "C". I'll do the rest later. Now to fix stuff.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 04:34:21 PM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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Gig
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2012, 06:23:02 PM »

RL'd? Undecided Do you mean "catched by real life"?

Hey guys, you are making a large amount of huge changes in the wiki in these days... days where I'm really busy with real life and so I can't keep up following all the changes. D'oh! So please, let's take the time to discuss a bit large changes before starting to heavily edit a large number of existing articles...
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »

Yep, RL'd = Real Life'd. Tongue

I think that pages belonging to a single category should have a constant look for a better organized info. For example, maps. Every wiki out there does that.

I don't see why mods can't follow that as well.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:14:46 PM by Neon_Knight » Logged


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GrosBedo
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2012, 06:49:25 PM »

Gig - The Wiki Gates Keeper. I think you ought to get that title Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2012, 05:56:24 AM »

I don't see why mods can't follow that as well.
I haven't said to do not use a common look, but they already had one, more or less. I mean we may have discussed here how to optimize that layout, e.g. what fields to be placed in the new template, etc.
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Gig
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2012, 07:08:23 AM »

A thing I and NeonKnight were talking about if the pages about the maps should be only descriptive or also contain aspects of reviews. IMHO, it would be more useful to suggest users specific things that they can try to get the best experience in the map (e.g. saying that a specific map is very good for instantgib mode, or that another one was designed with Elimination mode in mind...), than describing the exact shape of every single platform in it and the location of each item (and let's consider that, using gametype keys, items can change depending from the current gametype). What do you think about that?
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2012, 09:26:16 AM »

I'm on the "neutral articles" side. I know we aren't Wikipedia, but, for one, opinionated edits have a dangerous tendency to enter into "Fan Myopia" territory, believing that things (opinions, stuff) are more known than they really are. Plus, people shouldn't be obligated to know why things were popular, they should figure that for themselves. Also, in practice, the map might have been made for a mode, but what if it's another mode the one where the map really shines? And even then, everything's still subjective, opinions vary among people.

Plus, opinionated edits tend to make wikis to look more like forums or personal blogs rather than wikis.

Oh, and there's a "Tactics and strategies" section in the pages which should work as the "tips" corner as well.
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"Detailed" is nice, but if it gets in the way of clarity, it ceases being a nice addition and becomes a problem. - TVT
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Gig
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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2012, 04:34:07 AM »

To GrosBedo: I noticed you did huge enlargements to the Demos page. Thank you. I haven't had the time to read them with the attention needed, for now. But I noticed this part of the script you mentioned:
"set g_synchronousClients 1;set cl_autoRecordDemo 1;set g_synchronousClients 0"
It looks against what previously stated above:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Demos#Recording_a_best-quality_demo
where it says that a script like "g_synchronousClients 1;record;g_synchronousClients 0" has no effect (because it turns off synchronousclients immediately).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 07:02:39 AM by Gig » Logged

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grey matter
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« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2012, 02:08:27 PM »

If I'm not entirely mistaken, you'd have to set g_synchronousClients on the server (the client then just copies the server's value), not the client. At least in ioquake3 the engine will just print a warning, not cancel with an error.
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sago007
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« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2012, 02:12:35 PM »

If I'm not entirely mistaken, you'd have to set g_synchronousClients on the server (the client then just copies the server's value), not the client. At least in ioquake3 the engine will just print a warning, not cancel with an error.
Despite the misleading name ("g_" usually means server logic ) this variable is a client variable. Maybe it used to be a server variable a long time ago and the name just stuck.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2012, 02:53:00 PM »

@Gig: No it's not in opposition to what was previously stated: it's only a quick workaround to easily record a demo. When you record a demo with g_synchronousClients 1, you will lag, so you can't possibly record a demo while playing. Now if you set it to 0, the engine may refuse your recording (I can't remember the error, but try it, you'll see that sometimes it will refuse to record a demo).

Now with this workaround, you enable g_synchronousClients, then launch the recording, and then toggle it back, so that you can play while recording. Theoretically, this will results in some quirks (like false hits behind walls), but concretely there will be no difference (which is even more true now with delag).

Anyway thank you for pointing me that out because I forgot to explicit that, it's now fixed and I hope that this makes things clearer for the reader.

/EDIT: I also updated the definition of g_synchronousClients in Recording a best-quality demo
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2012, 02:55:16 PM »

back to topic: i realy love, what you did with the map section inside the wiki, but it will be hard to describe all items and their locations.
Maybe a hint for the special items (quad, bfg or similar) is enough?
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Gig
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« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2012, 04:41:24 PM »

@Grosbedo: Okay, so your trick is only meant to workaround the (rare or not? I saw that the engine suggests to enable sync... but are you sure it even refuses to record, sometimes?) case of the engine refusing to start recording cause of the lack of g_synchronousclients.... but it does not record a top quality demo, right? If one really wants to do it, he needs to use the trick of spectating himself from another machine, right?

The section about the "scripts" seems to repeat some infos (e.g. the exporting format variables)... do you think it is possible to do a bit of cleanup? Also, I'd almost remove the second time g_synchrnousclients is explained, what do you think about it? Maybe we could save something from that section and integrate it in the apposite section above.

Also, when mentioning the tip of changing fs_homepath, we could simply link to [[homepath]] to how to do, while advising that changing it means to use a completely different configuration and autodownloaded data folder.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 04:52:12 PM by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
GrosBedo
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« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2012, 08:37:50 AM »

@Gig: yes indeed I did not read the entire page and so we can probably cleanup some parts or link to other articles (I'm not yet very used to the wiki so I don't know all the pages that already exists). I will do a cleanup when Ill have some time.
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Gig
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« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2012, 05:38:41 PM »

Okay, tell me if you need some help. Anyway now there are some interesting things written there, that may be used to integrate existing ones...

At the moment, I'd like to ask a question to everybody here.
Now we have the "mod" template:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Template:Mod
which is used inside the pages of the mods (example: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/ModCompat/Akimbo). Ok. One of the allowed fields is named "status": if you set it to 1, it writes "active", otherwise it writes "defunct". That "defunct" sounds too harsh; I fear it may discourage people from trying the mod (while being no more under development does not mean the mod is not working or not enjoyable!). Do you have any idea for another expression instead of "Defunct"? "Inactive"? "Out of/from development"? "Old"? "No more developed"? We're searching for ideas. Consider template size.
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Gig
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« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2012, 04:02:55 PM »

@all: any ideas about the "defunct" problem in the post above this one?

@GrosBedo: Hi! Do you think you can have some time to take a look for that polishing?

PS: about server-side demos (even though this is probably more for the "idea pit" section): if I understand correctly, at the moment to record such demos you can only use modified (unofficial) server executables, right? Is that modified code under GPL (it should, being OpenArena in GPL) and available? Where can it be found? Maybe Sago or Fromhell may import such changes directly in the official OpenArena, making serverside demos an official feature.
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
GrosBedo
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« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2012, 07:22:49 AM »

@all: any ideas about the "defunct" problem in the post above this one?

You can change it to inactive or discontinued, these are terms that are generally used for dead development projects (or look at sourceforge/other opensource repositories for other ideas).

@GrosBedo: Hi! Do you think you can have some time to take a look for that polishing?

PS: about server-side demos (even though this is probably more for the "idea pit" section): if I understand correctly, at the moment to record such demos you can only use modified (unofficial) server executables, right? Is that modified code under GPL (it should, being OpenArena in GPL) and available? Where can it be found? Maybe Sago or Fromhell may import such changes directly in the official OpenArena, making serverside demos an official feature.


Yes, this week-end, I'll have some spare time.

About serverside demos, I don't know the licence but I think it's GPL since it's released as a public patch here by TheDoctor:

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3206.msg34546#msg34546

It's not used anymore on ScrewOA servers I think (at least the demos are inaccessible), but it used to work, I tried the demos and it worked wonderfully. I am planning to implement the patch on my servers and see if that works ok, but I'm not really into hacking the game engine so I won't be able to fix big things if it doesn't go well.

Of course, it would be great if the OA devs could implement this feature, but I don't think it will be until the next release, since v0.8.8 will be very soon released and I don't think devs want to delay more. But indeed, this would be great!
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Gig
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« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2012, 07:31:40 AM »

Of course, not for 0.8.alien but for a later relase.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2012, 03:02:40 AM »

Just an update about the serverside patch: it's not complete, at the end it misses a few lines:

Code:
*************** void SV_SendClientSnapshot( client_t *cl
*** 634,651 ****
  }
 
  MSG_Init (&msg, msg_buf, sizeof(msg_buf));
  msg.allowoverflow = qtrue;
 
  // NOTE, MRE: all server->client messages now acknowledge
  // let the client know which reliable clientCommands we have received
  MSG_WriteLong( &msg, client->lastClientCommand );
 
  // (re)send any reliable server commands
! SV_UpdateServerCommandsToClient( client, &msg );
 
  // send over all the relevant entityState_t
  // and the playerState_t
! SV_WriteSnapshotToClient( client, &msg );
 
  // Add any download data if the client is downloading
  SV_WriteDownloadToClient( client, &msg );
--- 673,703 ----
  }
 
  MSG_Init (&msg,      msg_buf,      sizeof(msg_buf));
+ MSG_Init (&msg_demo, msg_buf_demo, sizeof(msg_buf_demo));
  msg.allowoverflow = qtrue;
+ msg_demo.allowoverflow = qtrue;
+
+ headerBytes = msg.cursize;//&msg.readcount;
 
  // NOTE, MRE: all server->client messages now acknowledge
  // let the client know which reliable clientCommands we have received
  MSG_WriteLong( &msg, client->lastClientCommand );
 
  // (re)send any reliable server commands
! SV_UpdateServerCommandsToClient( client, &msg, &msg_demo );
 
  // send over all the relevant entityState_t
  // and the playerState_t
! SV_WriteSnapshotToClient( client, &msg, &msg_demo );
 
  // Add any download data if the client is downloading
  SV_WriteDownloadToClient( client, &msg );

I'm trying to compile it and test it, and I'll post the rest on the binaries thread and on the wiki.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2012, 06:32:59 PM »

I've updated the wiki about compiling OA for Windows users:

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ#Windows_user

But I've got a problem with the numbered list, I can't find how to force the numbers to continue at a specific numbers. Gig, do you know of a way to do that, or should I just reformat without the # but by numbering myself the items (but we'll lose the CSS infos)?
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Gig
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« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2012, 06:35:22 AM »

About the location you mentioned DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=DeveloperFAQ&action=historysubmit&diff=11619&oldid=9557]here for the executables, aren't those the old 0.8.1 executables? I think someone said 0.8.5 executables are version 13 executables here...

About list numbers: help here is not very much, but here there are more detailed infos. The part you are searching for should be this one:

#<li value="9">Amsterdam</li>
#Rotterdam
#The Hague

should give

 9  Amsterdam
 10   Rotterdam
 11   The Hague

Strangely enough, it seems to work on Wikipedia, but not on Wikia: using that text on wikia, the preview produces this strange output:
1.
9. Amsterdam</li>
10. Rotterdam
11. The Hague

I don't know why.
Then, I fear we have to use the more complicated variant:
<ol start="9">
<li>Amsterdam</li>
<li>Rotterdam</li>
<li>The Hague</li>
</ol>
That seems to work on Wikia, too.
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
GrosBedo
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« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2012, 01:06:26 PM »

Thank's a lot Gig, the list is now fixed.

About the location you mentioned DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=DeveloperFAQ&action=historysubmit&diff=11619&oldid=9557]here for the executables, aren't those the old 0.8.1 executables? I think someone said 0.8.5 executables are version 13 executables here...

Yes I know, but I thought it was too much complicated to put it on the wiki for an introducement to compilation of OA, but I've updated and added this info as a note. However, this note should be updated when v0.8.8 will be released.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2012, 07:31:41 AM »

Better videos management for Wikia:
http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog%3ASarah_Manley%2F_Product_Update_-_Video
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