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Author Topic: Recap improvements needed in the Wiki site - Where?  (Read 84223 times)
Gig
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« Reply #250 on: January 31, 2014, 07:20:02 am »

I was thinking more on the second option, a step-by-step tutorial.
In that case, maybe your original naming idea (Mapping manual/Practice/Topic) may be a bit better than the other one. Or even just "Mapping practice/Topic" may work.
However, that's just a detail: hyperlinks allow to jump from a "manual" page to the corresponding "tutorial" page (or vice versa) in a click...  Smiley

For me it's the same.  Smiley
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #251 on: January 31, 2014, 08:49:10 am »

Yeah, the practice session would be the step-by-step tutorial, the main "how-to", while the mapping manual the manual would be the manual itself.
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Gig
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« Reply #252 on: February 05, 2014, 06:30:14 am »

Uhm... are you sure the current structure of
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Additional_gametype_support (permalink to current version)
is better than the previous (permalink to previous version)? I have the impresson that before it was easier to find out the infos you were searching for: "Question: how do I add support for Domination mode? - Answer: do this, then this and then that."). Don't you think? PS: Also, references to setting "facing angle" for obelisks entities disappeared.

Another thing: maybe in a few pages you made an "overload" of foot-note-based references to third-party tutorials? Like in this one. Time ago, you said too many foot notes did make pages hard to read (that's one of the reasons you come out with the "appendix pages" idea)... Maybe linking the same third-party tutorials over and over again isn't the best option? Maybe using the "external links" section instead of a foot note, when a certain third party link applies to various sections of the page? Just an idea... Or, when a link is referred more times, guessing if it's really necessary to refer to it all those times?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 07:00:55 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #253 on: February 05, 2014, 09:36:34 am »

Footnotes as in "footnotes", not links.
In Wikis, footnotes are generally the links of the cites, not huge notes explaining something which can be explained in just one line without being a footnote.

About gametype support, well, that's a good point, but the layouts should be explained in the Map gameplay page, and after taking it from the gametype page, only what entities need to be placed and in whatr amount is remaining.

This leads me to think that the Map Gameplay page should be splitted in two: Layout types and Map gameplay.
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Gig
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« Reply #254 on: February 05, 2014, 10:05:33 am »

Another note I just noticed about the gametypes support page. It's not so clear how the "fallback system" for spawn points works in the various modes. For example, at the moment, it's not clear that DD mode will search for "info_player_dd_blue and info_player_dd_red" OR "info_player_dd" OR standard deathmatch spawn points (searching for them in this preference order).

Also, the new table you added here should somehow allow "something" to manage these "preference/alternatives" more clearly than just "Required/Optional" (which is ok for objectives, like team_neutralobelisk, but for spawnpoints I'm not sure).
I mean, now the table says, for DD mode, that all three "info_player_dd", "info_player_blue" and "info_player_red" "info_player_dd_blue" and "info_player_dd_red" [typo corrected] are "required". But I can guess that if you placed info_player_blue and info_player_red info_player_dd_blue and "info_player_dd_red [typo corrected], then info_player_dd becomes absolutely useless, isn't so?
I'm not sure about the best way to fix this, but I think we should find something...

PS: does "info_player_dom" exist in OA 0.8.8?
For those team-based, Sago said they have been added after 0.8.alien but this other one?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 02:15:16 am by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #255 on: February 05, 2014, 11:26:12 am »

About spawn points usage order, what about placing numbers or letters in the table? Starting from 1 or A, meaning the first one the engine will search for? Both blue and red points of the same kind (in other words, those to be used together) would get the same number or letter.

One may however specify something (e.g. an asterisk or other symbol) for those that are unadvisable (such as dm spawn points in ctf mode... Although in oacmpdm10 I used that on purpose, to achieve unconventional gameplay, I know it's not usual. Smiley)

UPDATE: Considering the different nature of spawnpoints and objective entities (and the different "required/optional/alternative" usage), one may even split the table in two different tables (that should also make easier to follow shorter columns, while reading)...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:05:17 pm by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #256 on: February 05, 2014, 10:39:02 pm »

No.

In fact I may resume the table to supported, recommended and not supported and call it a day. You know what I think about too much info.

Besides, I want to finish as much articles as I can before RL calls me back. Even then I'll make sure to unclutter the pages with only the required info.
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Gig
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« Reply #257 on: February 06, 2014, 02:24:35 am »

But in its actual state, the part about spawnpoints of that table does just report misleading informations. Removing that part of the table would be better than keeping wrong infos. Even the old "Mapping information for special gametypes" page would be better... Saying that writing "A", "B", "C" instead of "R" or "O" would be "too much info" is absolutely senseless. The fact that "info_player_dd" usage is alternate to "info_player_dd_red and _blue" usage and NOT complimentary to it is basic/necessary info... how's possible to don't see that?  Huh Why do you want people to place dozens of useless spawn points in their maps?

Also, I don't get the reason why you changed to colors instead of letters, which does not help at all in fixing the problems of the table. Maybe it makes the table a little quicker to read (except for daltonic people, of course), but its main effect is to make it harder to edit. Why did you do that?  Undecided

PS: sorry for mistyping info_player_blue and info_player_red instead of info_player_dd_blue and info_player_dd_red in the post above. However I hope was I meant was clear anyway.

Rushing how many articles in a few days, leaving them with major issues, does not seem a great idea. When you do something, do it right the first time, isn't this the premise of OA3?

PPS: IMHO, in DD it would be better to use info_player_dd instead of info_player_dd_red and info_player_dd_blue: if players of each team spawn in their own base (similarily to CTF-based modes), it's quite unlikely someone will be able to score... But this is just my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 03:13:56 am by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #258 on: February 11, 2014, 02:42:16 am »

Due to some dubts emerged in another thread, I took a look to the "clip" shaders:

From 0.8.1 "common.shader":
Quote
textures/common/clip
{
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm playerclip
   surfaceparm noimpact
}

//to keep certain textures from being shot up
textures/common/weapclip
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nomarks
}

//nicked from nexuiz
textures/common/metalclip
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm noimpact
   surfaceparm playerclip
   surfaceparm metalsteps
}

// acts as player clip only for the bots
// can keep them from being pushed into voids
// do not use, use donotenter instead :-P
textures/common/botclip
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm noimpact
   surfaceparm botclip
}

textures/common/missileclip
{
   surfaceparm nodamage
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm playerclip
   surfaceparm trans
}

textures/common/full_clip
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm playerclip
}

Maybe we should write somewhere in the wiki (mapping manual appendix or something?) about the actual differences of these shaders (at the moment, not all of them are documented).

Note: I slightly updated the "bot play" page: it referred to "common/botdonotenter", but the proper name of the shader is "common/donotenter": "bot" word is displayed in the (very low quality, maybe for OA should be changed?) editor image, but is not really part of the shader name.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 02:54:53 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #259 on: February 11, 2014, 10:10:23 am »

That's what the still-non-built Shaders page is for.
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Gig
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« Reply #260 on: February 11, 2014, 10:23:18 am »

Do you have ideas about how to organize that page?
I mean, it's probably impossible to put everything in a single page. Q3 Shader manual is a whole separate manual than the Q3Radiant one...

PS: About introduction/base practical tips about shaders, did I already told you can re-use (adapting as necessary) the notes I wrote in this post? Yes, I already did.  Smiley
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #261 on: February 11, 2014, 02:46:20 pm »

Rushing how many articles in a few days, leaving them with major issues, does not seem a great idea. When you do something, do it right the first time, isn't this the premise of OA3?
I would have done a better job if the OACMP and real life wouldn't have gotten in the middle.
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Gig
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« Reply #262 on: February 13, 2014, 11:16:41 am »

Do you think we should write here http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Brush_manipulation#Edge_and_vertex_edition
something like <<Manipulating a brush you may cause two or more of its faces to become one. This would cause "duplicate plane" messages at compiling, which may create problems to bots navigation. In case you just fused two faces this way accidentally, you may want to "undo" your edit or to re-create the brush from scratch, to avoid any risk.>> ?

It's due to what is written in the "Error Messages" section here in the GTKRadiant manual.
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Gig
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« Reply #263 on: October 27, 2014, 01:48:56 am »

Hello everybody.
Can I ask your opinion?

A few days ago, an unregistered user created a "Configuration file" page on the wiki (permalink), placing in there just a configuration example for a server, and no more explainations.
Unlike our existing server config example in Servers#Server config example (permalink), his example does not have "comments" to explain each line. There are even a few cvars which I don't know at all, so I don't even know if they are from baseoa or from some mod (e.g. what's "cm_playercurveclip"?).

I did imagine a "configuration file" wiki page as a page mainly explaining what q3config.cfg is and where it is stored, if needed with links to "configuration examples" page...
What should we do with that guy's config example? Delete the whole page? Move it to a sub-page of "Configuration examples"? But in that case, that config should be checked for possible errors and should get some comments...

What's your opinion, guys?
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Gig
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« Reply #264 on: September 27, 2016, 03:00:13 am »

"Wikia" site gets re-branded to "Fandom powered by Wikia":
http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Craiglpalmer/Wikia_is_now_Fandom_powered_by_Wikia

The main wikia site can now also be accessed as www.fandom.com

Individual wikis are still accessed through the classic URLs, in our case http://openarena.wikia.com. Accessing them as subdomains of fandom.com does not seem to work at the moment.
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Gig
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« Reply #265 on: October 20, 2016, 03:24:15 am »

Just for the record, I finally "splitted" the content of Manual/Multiplayer by creating Manual/Multiplayer/Advanced. Content is the same as before, just splitted into two separate pages. It was years I thought about that.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 06:16:23 am by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #266 on: November 07, 2016, 05:40:26 am »

I recently realized that the main page of a wikia site, when accessed from a mobile phone which identifies itself (user agent) as a mobile phone, shows a completely different page (preview here: http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=mercury).
More infos in http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Mobile_Main_Page
Only admins can customize it, and possible actions are extremely limited. You CANNOT manually enter any text to be shown there (even the "promote your wiki" text isn't shown in the page itself)... you can just add a few "featured content" links. But those links cannot bring to the Main Page itself, as wikia considers that ugly page already being "the" Main Page.
This is an issue for us, due to our main page having a lot of useful links. And I haven't found a way to turn off this stupid "mobile home page" feature...

So, I somehow found a workaround: I created a "Full Main Page" page which includes (as if it was a template) the "real" main page. Then added it as a "featured content" with the name of "Main Page (Complete)" to the Mobile Main Page. So now people can use that link to read the contents of the real main page (still with "mobile" skin, but showing the real content). Furthermore, I also added a reminder in top of the page (the "workaround" one) to tell people who are using the mobile version of the site that there is a "VIEW FULL SITE" link at the very bottom of each page, to show desktop version.

But it's absurd one has to invent such workarounds just to allow mobile viewers to somehow read the main page...  grouch
I know the "mobile main page" itself has got the "view full site" link at its bottom, but that's not so intuitive...
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Gig
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« Reply #267 on: July 31, 2017, 05:55:01 am »

Hey, I FINALLY imported the "hidden" teamplate from general wikia to our wikia:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hidden

Finally we can hide content inside boxes that start closed and the user can expand at will. Enjoy!  Smiley
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #268 on: July 31, 2017, 03:50:26 pm »

Great! Smiley
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"Level Designers are 1 part architect, 1 part artist, 1 part game designer, and 1 part beta tester!" Cliff Bleszinski
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